Feedback on ZPacks Zero?

[CalebJ]

Greetings! I'm currently using an Osprey Exos 34. With that pack (28 ounces) and my sleep/shelter system, my big 4 come in at about 4.5 pounds. As I plan for a long section hike (8 weeks) next summer, I'm looking for ways to knock chunks out of pack weight so I can comfortably enjoy more of the trail. One of the big options available to me is swapping out the pack. The Exos has plenty of space in the main bag to hold all of my gear plus 4-5 days of food. A medium ZPacks Zero is almost exactly the same volume.

By switching packs, I'd knock out 18+ ounces of weight (with the webbing hip belt/pockets as well as the mesh pocket on the back it comes out at 10 ounces). The only major hesitation I have is how it would carry when fully loaded with food. I'm estimating 2.5 pounds per day of food because of the long days (~4-5k calories per day). With water, that puts total weight coming off a resupply at a bit over 20 pounds. Is that a manageable load with the Zero?

Any constructive feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[CalebJ]

Current gear list, in case it affects anything (or you're just curious):
http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=16369

[10-K]

I'm waiting on cuben fiber water.

[daddytwosticks]

What about the comfort issue? I have a light load at times but I love my Atmos 50 because of the ventilated back/sweat issues. What about that Arc pack from Z packs if back sweat issues affect you? Your load does look pretty light! Good luck with your choices.

[CalebJ]

What about the comfort issue? I have a light load at times but I love my Atmos 50 because of the ventilated back/sweat issues. What about that Arc pack from Z packs if back sweat issues affect you? Your load does look pretty light! Good luck with your choices.

All of those are very legitimate points. Wish I could borrow a Zero for a few days of hiking to make a decision, but in the absence of that option I'm hoping to hear from the people who have them. The Exos is a pretty comfortable pack as it is. May be worth sticking with it.

[SouthMark]

I have a small Zpacks Zero made 4" taller than stock. I just sold my Exos 34. Both are good packs. My Zero is just as comfortable to me as the Exos but lighter plus the front mesh pocket is much better than the pocket on the Exos.

[CalebJ]

Mark, do you use a pad to firm up the back panel of the Zero? One of my concerns is that my pad is a Klymit Inertia, so there's nothing to create any structure in the pack.

[HikerMom58]

Hey CalebJ... good luck with your pack decisions.. ur from Roanoke Va.. Me too? If you know my daughter, then I might know who you are... Welcome to WB!

[SouthMark]

Mark, do you use a pad to firm up the back panel of the Zero? One of my concerns is that my pad is a Klymit Inertia, so there's nothing to create any structure in the pack.

I use a Gossamer Gear sit pad. I ordered the Zero with the external pad attachment option. Of course when using the Zero with 15-18 lbs or less it is not really necessary if you pack it with no hard sharp items next to your back and you can create all the structure that you need by making sure all the contents are compressed well creating a solid stiff pack. The sit pad weighs less than 2 oz and is worth it for easy quick access at rest stops and to sit on around camp.

[Malto]

I don't use a zero but a different frameless pack. Having something rigid to provide a frame is not required if you have a light load AND allow you gear to expand to occupy the volume. Based on my experience I would error on the side of too small of pack vs too large. That way you have a tight volume and your entire pack acts like a frame in the same fashion as a unibody is to a framed car.

[Dogwood]

I'm an advanced ULer. Take that into account with what I'm saying. In this often obsessed UL gear crazy world do not make reducing gear wt decisions in a bubble. When reducing gear wt other factors are involved, some of which are, function, cost, durability, user knowledge, hiking style/philosophy, where/when the user hikers, integration with other gear pieces in a hiker's kit, etc etc. Problems develop when we ignore the possible importance of these other factors when reducing kit weight. I've done that too many times to recall. Consider gear choices from a multitude of angles/factors. You will probably say you know this but still we sometimes need to be reminded.

You said, " I'm looking for ways to knock chunks out of pack weight so I can comfortably enjoy more of the trail." I will caution you with this having this idea. Inherit in it may be an assumption. Comfortably enjoying more of the trail IS NOT solely determined by pack wt! Don't fall into that trap! If you can't immediately relate an additional 1/2 dozen ways in which a person, or specifically YOU, can "comfortably enjoy more of the trail" that does not involve the purchase of new lighter wt gear that may mean you are limiting yourself in regards to how you can "comfortably enjoy more of the trail." It's my illusion that IF you expand your thinking in this area it will make you a better hiker and your hikes will be more enjoyable. THEN, as you lower your gear wt that will be the whipped cream and cherry on top.

After looking at your gear list I noticed what I do on a lot of light wt/UL gear lists - the wt of your trail food. At 2.5 lbs per day it easily is the heaviest thing in your pack on a multi day hike, disregarding a heavy water haul. It's significant! Too many times those who desire to lose some kit wt will throw money at the issue buying new gear when with a little knowledge could do the same. In some cases, and in your situation, it seems the biggest way to lose wt is in your consumables, your trail food wt. With a little more knowledge, perhaps a little time, it's likely possible for you to get that daily trail food wt into the 1.5-2 lb range. SMARTLY, seek ways in which to do this SMARTLY! Do that first and then pursue the latest greatest lightest wt gear.

[CalebJ]

I wasn't aware that I'd suggested that comfort was tied solely to pack weight. It was, however, one aspect of the planning that I was trying to address in this thread. There are only a handful of items on that gear list that I haven't been using for years. Given the short time I have available and the fact that I generally prefer a point a to b approach over stopping and starting, I'm approaching this with the goal of at least making it back to VA in the 8 weeks which means traveling a bit lighter than normal and putting in longer hours. The extra distance is also why I'm increasing food from the normal 1.5 pounds or so I'd normally pack.

[Drybones]

I'm waiting on cuben fiber water.

I'm waiting on cuben fiber food.

[MuddyWaters]

I carry a 6-6.5 lb base weight much of the year.

This is my honest opinion about frameless packs, and any pack without load lifters to keep it pulled in close to your upper back.

They suck above 15 lbs. Every last one.
The difference is varying levels of suckiness.

At 20 you are seriously kidding yourself. The couple oz for a decent belt and stay make a world of difference.

If you spend most time below 15 lbs, and only occassionally would hit 15+, then maybe.
If you spend half your time in the 15-20 range, its a mistake when there are choices like the Ohm and arc blast.


A frameless pack like the zero is really good for SUL loads, 5 lb basewt, + 1 liter water = 2.2 lbs, then you have 3- 5 days food capacity without getting too uncomfortable.

[CalebJ]

Cool. I wouldn't be above it all the time, but very likely at least 1 day in 3. Especially in the northern section.

[CalebJ]

As light as the Exos is, I'll probably hang onto it for the trip.

[daddytwosticks]

If you like the Osprey Exos style of packs and want to stick with their products, they are restyling the entire like of Exos packs in January. I'm patiently waiting to hear some reviews of the new products.

[CalebJ]

If you like the Osprey Exos style of packs and want to stick with their products, they are restyling the entire like of Exos packs in January. I'm patiently waiting to hear some reviews of the new products.

Definitely keeping an eye on those, though the first info I've seen wasn't all that exciting.

[daddytwosticks]

Definitely keeping an eye on those, though the first info I've seen wasn't all that exciting.

Some of the colors I saw were eye popping to say the least.

[CalebJ]

Hey CalebJ... good luck with your pack decisions.. ur from Roanoke Va.. Me too? If you know my daughter, then I might know who you are... Welcome to WB!

I don't believe I do, but there are at -least- two Caleb Johnson's in Roanoke. The other one is a couple of years younger than me as I recall.