Warmer bag vs. quilt or upgrade layering system?

[MommaDuck]

I'm planning my NOBO thru hike to start mid March and have been questioning my gear lately given the extreme weather of 2013 and a cold 2014 predicted. I have a very limited budget, less than 250, and want to make some changes to lighten my pack weight but mostly insure my warmth in camp and sleeping-I tend to be cold natured. For my sleep system I tent, have a 20 degree Kelty cosmic down bag, a silk liner and a BA insulated core pad which has generally kept me warm into the 30s. For clothing I have a cap 3 LS half zip top and running tights for hiking, an icebreaker 260 LS top and bottoms for sleep and darn tough socks. I have a heavy sporthill fleece and Rei Revecloud insulating jacket. Also have marmot precip top and bottoms for rain/wind/snow layers. So my question is where is my money best spent. I've considered the Zpack 20 bag and Enlightened Equip Revx quilt. OR... Should I change out the sporthill fleece for a Patagonia R1 and change my REi jacket for a down jacket? Or any other suggestions or ideas are greatly appreciated! Thanks

[Zippy Morocco]

I started March 5 this year and took part in a lot of cold hiking. I had a 20* Western Mountaineering Ultralight. It did the trick though I was cold some nights even with all my clothes on. That was more the fault of the pad I chose.

For the pct this year I have purchased Zpacks 20* long. I would have used it on the AT if I had the choice at the time. I move a little too much for a quilt so I think this will be a good compromise. The loft looks very nice.

Enjoy your hike. Your body kind of gets numb to the cold after a while :-)

[brancaster]

I'm plan to thru hike in either 2015 or 2016, but because I'm a bit of a planning freak I intend to have everything sorted by early next year. I also have a limited budget, and got some solid advice on these forums after asking a similar question.

One person in my thread recommended the Enlightened Equipment quilt that you're considering. After considerable research and advice, I've decided to give that quilt a shot. It looks like it holds true to it's temperature rating better than the Kelty down bag (I was looking into that one as well).

That being said, I'm going to pick a few days after the first of the year that match up to the type of weather I'll expect on the coldest days of my thru hike to test out the quilt before I completely commit to it.

[prain4u]

I would recommend starting later--like the first or second week in April. Less need for as much heavy/warm gear. Higher completion rate. Less time spent hunkering down waiting out storms. Cold weather gear is also more expensive. Starting 3-4 weeks later can make a BIG difference.

[MommaDuck]

Thanks for the suggestions. I was trying to avoid the crowd by starting a little earlier, but worth considering a change of plans to use the gear I have. Plus I have a marathon to run in Nov. and was trying to factor in training time.

[Nyte]

I could be wrong, but I would think the conditioning from a thru-hike would translate fairly well (allowing for recovery between) to a marathon. With no pack on, it could feel like a breeze.

[JAK]

I would first determine what the coldest nights you would have to sleep in, and also the longest duration you might have to shelter in place. Then I would determine the coldest conditions you would have to be prepared to hike in, including depth of snow, wetness of snow, puddles, whatever. I think you have the right stuff more or less or close to it. The devil is in the details, and how much of the worst conditions you end up encountering and how hard you can strike while conditions are favourable. Use some weekends this winter to experiment whenever and wherever you can. Have fun with it.

[Odd Man Out]

If you find you need more insulation underneath, then buying a cheap thin CCF pad to go under you air mattress can add R value. Send it home when it warms up. Might be the cheapest way to add warmth, if you are on a budget.

[Tom Murphy]

That is a fairly heavy bag, but the bags with higher rated fill down (and therefore lower weight) are expensive.

If being warm is an issue, USE A BAG that is a snug tight, not a quilt. Bags have intergrated hoods, zipper baffles, and chest baffles. These construction features can go a long way towards trapping your body heat. A snug bag has less dead air space that needs to be warmed and also the chest baffle to work properly.

I use quilts during the three seasons but when winter comes, I bring a sleeping bag.

Also consider a gender specfic sleeping bag.

[Nyte]

That is a fairly heavy bag, but the bags with higher rated fill down (and therefore lower weight) are expensive.

If being warm is an issue, USE A BAG that is a snug tight, not a quilt. Bags have intergrated hoods, zipper baffles, and chest baffles. These construction features can go a long way towards trapping your body heat. A snug bag has less dead air space that needs to be warmed and also the chest baffle to work properly.

I use quilts during the three seasons but when winter comes, I bring a sleeping bag.

Also consider a gender specfic sleeping bag.

Just not too snug. Make sure you can get in with all your layers on (if you need to), and not compress the insulation, or it's going backwards.

[FarmerChef]

I would recommend starting later--like the first or second week in April. Less need for as much heavy/warm gear. Higher completion rate. Less time spent hunkering down waiting out storms. Cold weather gear is also more expensive. Starting 3-4 weeks later can make a BIG difference.

This is a very good suggestion. Your costs will probably be lower with less hunkering down, less pull to get into a town and someplace warm after freezing your bum off for 3 days and walking through 3 or 4 foot drifts of snow (that's on a good day), less frustrations with frozen water, frozen shoes, frozen food (seriously, Snickers are rock hard below freezing - ask me how I know...), etc. Plus you avoid the higher weight and cost of very cold weather gear.

That said, if you really DO want to get out early and are prepared to deal with the possibility of large and deep snow, very cold rain/ice and other problems with a nasty winter and an early start, then I would recommend borrowing some gear and getting outside in similar conditions to test it. I love my quilt and it's kept me warm enough down to single digits when coupled with my warm clothes and fleece liner. But that may not work for you. Much better to find out in your backyard than a week into your hike with no money to change out to a different option.

Also, while you can run a marathon after you get off the trail, those of us that hike long distance and run would probably agree that though your heart and lungs are in tip-top shape, your running legs aren't. If you're shooting for a time or PR you need to factor in some recovery time from the hike before you start marathon training. But I'm a sample of one. Perhaps others would disagree.

[MommaDuck]

Thanks FarmerChef. Can't imagine a frozen Snickers would be very fun! Great suggestions and I will be trying different combinations of clothing/gear in the back yard during the winter. Appreciate the input. Would love to hear more of your experience also running a marathon post hike. I just finished my 7th marathon for this year and now time to turn my efforts, time and energy into preparing more for this hike. Onward!

[George]

1 st) cheap is seldom light and light is seldom cheap

the cheapest way for a very warm sleep system is two used sleeping bags inside each other if you fit a medium then the outer would be a large - this can easily be sub zero for under 100

2nd) mid march does not beat the crowd - that is Feb

[Ironbelly]

The cheapest way to add DEFINITE warmth to your setup at minimal cost would be to carry as already mentioned a ccf pad. This will add a big boost in to your r factor below you and will overall keep you much warmer on cold nights. You can always send it home a month or so down the trail if you find you dont need it

[Starchild]

Just a trick I learned that won't cost you anything but can add warmth. If you shelter sleep and it's cold out, wrap your tent around your sleeping bag as a additional cover.

Your setup seems functional for low temps but heavy. Which is your problem, to get something much lighter you will need to spend more then you really want to, or else you will be just be getting another piece of marginal gear. However I didn't see a down puffy jacket on your list which can be had for less then $250, add warmth, allow you to leave a heavier layer home and functional as a camp jacket and a morning hiker till you get warmed up. The addition of a CCF mat is a good one, I at first carried a ridgerest + prolight and that did help.

Also I left for my NoBo March 18th, I did not avoid the crowds (but nor did I want to as I enjoy the social aspect of the trail). So I question if mid March will do anything for you in that category. Perhaps if you leave mid week instead of the weekend you will find more solitude. Also hikers travel in 'bubbles', if you are in a section that is too crowded for your liking, take a zero or two, let them pass. For the first part of my thru I traveled faster then many 'bubbles' and it was amazing how few thru hikers their are between the bubbles.

[gunner76]

If you to get a TQ, the RevX offers great value for the price. I own 2 of them, a Zero and a 30 degree. Of course I use them in my hammock.

[4eyedbuzzard]

The cheapest way to add DEFINITE warmth to your setup at minimal cost would be to carry as already mentioned a ccf pad. This will add a big boost in to your r factor below you and will overall keep you much warmer on cold nights. You can always send it home a month or so down the trail if you find you dont need it

Probably not worth the hassle of getting to a PO and paying to ship a cheap ccf pad like a WM blue pad home - at <$15 just leave it in a hiker box when done with it.

[MommaDuck]

Probably not worth the hassle of getting to a PO and paying to ship a cheap ccf pad like a WM blue pad home - at <$15 just leave it in a hiker box when done with it.

true! I do have a z lite pad I can throw in the mix and use also

[Bags4266]

+1 on starting later. If you don't like the crowds invest in a good tent.

[Coffee]

Regarding marathons and hiking, I finished a 18 day hike of the JMT on September 14 and ran the Marine Corps Marathon on October 27 and achieved a personal record (although still well short of my goal to qualify for Boston). Due to some other travel, I didn't run at all for about a full month. Prior to the JMT, I was on a marathon training plan which I resumed after I returned with one week of build up before doing any long runs. I found that my cardio fitness was great after the one month break in running but I was a bit slower for a couple of weeks but soon got back to my pre hike speed. I think that leaving six weeks between the end of a hike and the marathon is about adequate. But this might be different for resuming running after a six month hike. I'll find out in 2015 when I intend to hike the PCT and then run the Marine Corps marathon at the end of October...