Help convince and possibly change views of heavy pack hiker.

[Different Socks]

Been a member of this site for awhile now. Have seen numerous posts/questions about the weight off a pack in regards to how little or how much a person prefers to carry. Many of the UL people on this site claim to have base weights of 12--15 pounds, possibly alittle more or even less. I am having trouble wrapping my mind around the fact that a pack can still weigh so little after adding on EVERYTHING else needed to do a 4--5 day hike.
Now I know the UL's will say that since they carry less weight, they can go further, thereby less food would be needed, so let's use this an an example for my question: The 100 mile wilderness of Maine. Even if you walk 25 miles/day(most people wouldn't), that is still 4 days of food and water to carry.
Here is a list of what I may carry for those 4 days:

4 dinners with dried veggies and dried meats
Various and numerous candy bars/pop tarts/granola bars/fruit bars
Powdered milk
Enough drink powders for 4 qts each day
A small bottle of olive oil
Breads of some kind--Pitas, bagels, tortillas or even a loaf
Crackers
Cookies
Cream cheese/honey/peanut butter for the bread
A small can of parmesan cheese for the dinners
A small bag of gorp or similar trail mix
Jerky
Various spices, or at the least pepper
Hot cocoa packets or tea bags
No bake desserts--for 4 days, I'd carry at least 1 to enjoy after a 25 mile day.

All of these items in my list above, in whatever combination, for a 4 day supply of satisfying, appetizing food would add a considerable amount of weight.

If you carry 4 dinners of any kind, what do they constitute? Any meats/veggies?
If you carry candy bars and they are the tiny bite size, how many would be required to satisfy you during/after a 25 mile day, yet keep the pack weight down? And for all 4 days?
How many pop tart packets? Granola bars? How big of a bag of gorp?
How many cookies? How much jerky?
How many bagels or tortillas?
Do you carry any of the other things for meals?

See, to me these questions warrant the issue of pack weight. If your pack weighs so little BEFORE adding in food and water, how can your pack weigh so little after?

What exactly do you carry for meals, snacks, dessert, drinks and/or other things to keep you satisfied for 25 miles/day for 4 days AND still claim your total pack weight is so low?

And please, I don't wish to hear arguements about what I should/should not carry. And I am not questioning what you should/should not carry or eat. I simply wish to know exactly what it is that you do carry for those 4 days to create/eat satisfying foods. I also would prefer to hear from many of you that carry a stove(alky or white gas) for making hot meals, since that does add weight to the pack.

[Ktaadn]

This is a pretty generic day for me. My skin-out weight without food is about 16 pounds. Best ways to save weight are to not bring extra clothes and don't carry too much water.

Breakfast	Serving	Calories	Ounces
Clif Bar	1 Bar	240.00	2.40
Granola Bar	1 Bar	130.00	1.20
		370.00	3.60
Lunch	Serving	Calories	Ounces
Tortillia	2 Shells	340.00	3.93
Bacon	1 package	357.20	2.52
		697.20	6.45
Dinner	Serving	Calories	Ounces
Tortillia	2 Shells	340.00	3.93
Salami	1/3	330.00	3.00
Cheese	1 oz	121.00	1.00
		791.00	7.93
Snacks	Serving	Calories	Ounces
M&M's	1/6th bag	301.72	2.10
PB	1/6th Jar	420.00	2.67
		721.72	4.77
		2579.93	22.74

[Tipi Walter]

ULers with a 10 lb baseweight won't have a problem carrying 8 lbs of food for 4 days. A 18-20 lb pack is nothing. And I think a 12-15 lb baseweight pack as in your example means without food and water.

[Slo-go'en]

If you go by the 2 pounds of food per day rule of thumb, that is 10 pounds of food for 5 days. If your base weight is 18 pounds, which isn't too hard to do, your talking 28-30 pounds leaving town. The first day out of town is always the worst, as the pack is at it's heaviest.


Personally, if I have to carry 5 days of food, I'll skimp a little and try for 1.5 pounds per day. Any heavy food will be eaten in the first day or two with the lighter stuff saved for later.


Since everyone's tastes are different and the amount of pre-hike food prep one is willing to do also varries, doing specific food lists is pretty much pointless. I wish I could come up with something other then Knorr Pasta Sides and Tuna for dinner - I am seriously getting sick of those meals!

[Different Socks]

If you go by the 2 pounds of food per day rule of thumb, that is 10 pounds of food for 5 days. If your base weight is 18 pounds, which isn't too hard to do, your talking 28-30 pounds leaving town. The first day out of town is always the worst, as the pack is at it's heaviest.


Personally, if I have to carry 5 days of food, I'll skimp a little and try for 1.5 pounds per day. Any heavy food will be eaten in the first day or two with the lighter stuff saved for later.


Since everyone's tastes are different and the amount of pre-hike food prep one is willing to do also varries, doing specific food lists is pretty much pointless. I wish I could come up with something other then Knorr Pasta Sides and Tuna for dinner - I am seriously getting sick of those meals!

I

If you use packets for your meats, try salmon and chicken.

[map man]

Over the years I have done more simplifying and have done a better job of only packing foods that I know that I will like, even after eating them day after day. For a long hike this diet would give me two pounds of food daily totaling 4180 calories per day:

1 Cliff Builder Bar, assorted flavors: 270 calories
3 Cliff Bars, assorted flavors: 250 calories each
6 Organic Food Bars, assorted flavors: 300 calories each (all ten bars weigh 2.4 ounces)
8 ounces salted mixed nuts: 170 calories per ounce

Three bars for breakfast and dinner, bars and nuts alternated throughout the hiking day every hour. Some of the Organic Food Bars, depending on the flavor, have the equivalent of one serving of fruits or vegetables. No, this diet is not for everyone, but it works for me. I tend to have very even energy throughout the day without the surges and dips some hikers experience and I think this has something to do with the slow drip method I use for eating throughout the day. I don't gorge when I get to trail towns -- I keep eating the same thing. My last two week section hike in the southern Appalachians I ate this way and didn't lose a single pound.

[Coffee]

Typical food for a day on the JMT this summer:

Breakfast: Instant oatmeal with pecans and cranberries. Coffee. 750 calories, 6.3 ounces.
Morning snack: Clif Bar. 240 calories, 2.5 ounces.
Lunch: Dried hummus and two tortillas (add olive oil and water). 590 calories, 5.6 ounces.
Afternoon snack: Trail mix. 520 calories, 3.6 ounces
Dinner: Trader Joe's cheese tortellini with 1/2 package Knorr pesto packet plus olive oil. 840 calories, 6.4 ounces.
Dessert: 3 fun size snickers. 240 calories, 1.8 ounces

Total: 3180 calories, 26.2 ounces.

On the JMT I had to be aware of both weight and volume due to the bear canister. When not dealing with a bear canister, I would substitute bread, pitas or bagels for tortillas and take a long higher volume snacks like Fritos.

[Different Socks]

This is a pretty generic day for me. My skin-out weight without food is about 16 pounds. Best ways to save weight are to not bring extra clothes and don't carry too much water.

Breakfast	Serving	Calories	Ounces
Clif Bar	1 Bar	240.00	2.40
Granola Bar	1 Bar	130.00	1.20
		370.00	3.60
Lunch	Serving	Calories	Ounces
Tortillia	2 Shells	340.00	3.93
Bacon	1 package	357.20	2.52
		697.20	6.45
Dinner	Serving	Calories	Ounces
Tortillia	2 Shells	340.00	3.93
Salami	1/3	330.00	3.00
Cheese	1 oz	121.00	1.00
		791.00	7.93
Snacks	Serving	Calories	Ounces
M&M's	1/6th bag	301.72	2.10
PB	1/6th Jar	420.00	2.67
		721.72	4.77
		2579.93	22.74

Wow! Some of your amounts to eat seem to be incredibly low(1/6th's of a bag?). Aren't you ever hungry after eating so little, especially for a 25 mile day?

[4shot]

a typical hiking day on the trail (for me);
breakfast - 2 pouches of instant breakfast (mixed with cold water) and some sort of granola bar
snacks - midmorning and afternoon - snickers (large) and/or trail mix or salami/cheese
lunch - PB&J on bagel
evening meal - some sort of warm meal - instant rice or pasta, maybe with salami, dehydrated fruit. Snickers for dessert.


never thought to weigh it. as map man said, eat throughout the day helps maintain energy. If I were resupplying for 4 days I'd get a box of instant breakfast, a box of granola or energy bars, 8 snickers, a bag o' bagels (?),the large bag of trail mix, a jar of PB&J (premixed kind) and 4 instant pasta/rice. Occasionally I would substitute a block of salami and cheese for the PB&J or get the tuna pouches (got to wear I hated them though). Of course I would discard the boxes before leaving town. Sometimes I would carry some fresh fruit for the first day or a small bag of candy for a treat (I loved the GummiWorms although I have never eaten them before or since my hike).

rinse.lather.repeat. you can go a long way on that diet but a word of warning - after 5+ months of it (supplemented with daily hiking), I lost 40 lbs. of weight . (Maybe I should market it to those looking for the latest fad diet.)

[Hot Flash]

rinse.lather.repeat. you can go a long way on that diet but a word of warning - after 5+ months of it (supplemented with daily hiking), I lost 40 lbs. of weight . (Maybe I should market it to those looking for the latest fad diet.)

It's not the food, it's the exercise. People who fall for fad diets typically aren't the ones who are willing to exercise in order to lose weight, they want an easy quick fix that doesn't take effort.

[OCDave]

I do not consider myself UL, in fact, I am still struggling to get to/maintain a lightweight status. My lengthiest hikes are 5-7 days. I always pack too little food. I finish my hike with no food and famished. Less food= less weight.

While this is not a sustainable strategy for a thru-hiker, I find it enhances my outdoors experience. Somewhat akin to a cleanse or fasting.

Good Luck

[moldy]

Moveable feast? Dude, you can eat all that food on a 4 or 5 day hike? I will eat less than half that amount of food on the same hike. Each day I eat, 1 pack of instant oatmeal for breakfast, 2 snickers bars for lunch and a mountain house meal for dinner. Other than 2 instant coffee packs, that's it.

[Kerosene]

As noted by Tipi above, the base weight people are referring to is everything on your back minus food and water. For planning purposes, the daily food weight for a section hiker is almost always between 24 and 32 ounces (1.5-2.0 pounds). You might choose to go a bit heavier the first day if you add fresh food (it was totally worth it to carry a giant, fresh-baked, gooey cinnamon roll from The Red Hen in Andover to the top of Old Blue!), with lighter menu options for the later days. Outside of the 100 Mile Wilderness, it is rare for me to carry any more than 4 days of food, and usually I'm resupplying after 2.5-3 days. Of course, once you've been on the trail for a month your appetite will kick in to the point that you'll be carrying extra food and fuel.

[Malto]

Keep in mind that base weight doesn't include food.

My ideal resupply leg is 100 miles which I will do in three days. I have an eight lb base weight and for this length of hike I would carry about 20,000 calories at departure. That food weight would be about ten lbs giving me a 22 lb total weight at departure which is quite manageable.

As far as food. I would likely have about half my food weight in Maltodextrin with two healthy dose of protein such as Spam lite at days end. The rest would be a mix of sweet and salty junk food. For a through hike I would also include PNB and tortillas and likely dinners such as hamburger helper. My food density normally averages about 125 calories per ounce. I found going higher than that is counterproductive.

[Tipi Walter]

I do not consider myself UL, in fact, I am still struggling to get to/maintain a lightweight status. My lengthiest hikes are 5-7 days. I always pack too little food. I finish my hike with no food and famished. Less food= less weight.

While this is not a sustainable strategy for a thru-hiker, I find it enhances my outdoors experience. Somewhat akin to a cleanse or fasting.

Good Luck

I once did a 5 day backpacking trip south of the Smokies and started it on my 4th day of fasting, planning to fast the whole time. On my last day and my 9th day of fasting I could barely climb out of the gorge I was in and the big pack didn't help. But I agree---it's always good to fast one day when out on a backpacking trip---better yet, do the fast during a zero in-tent day during a crappy rainstorm. If you can stand to fast with piles of scrumptious food laying in the tent vestibule, begging you to EAT IT.

I actually like to fast a few days BEFORE a trip and purge the system and get my tongue ready for all the food I have laid out and plan to carry. Another trick to never eat at home what you will eat on the trip---oatmeal, mac and cheese, eggs, burritos, peanuts/peanut butter, etc. THEN when you get on the trail you'll be richly rewarded with crap you've been wanting to eat for a month.

[theGABE]

Best way I found to save weight on food was to supplement in a lot of fatty foods. Fat has the most calories per its weights compared to protein and carbohydrates. Peanutbutter and nuts are great stuff for calories and protein and I started putting plain butter on things that I ate, especially in things that I cook. If I remember correctly, 2 lbs of butter have about 6000 calories. Hot dang that is a good weight to calorie ratio. Of course that is a lot of butter, I will usually just carry a 12-16 oz tub for 5 days.

[Tipi Walter]

Best way I found to save weight on food was to supplement in a lot of fatty foods. Fat has the most calories per its weights compared to protein and carbohydrates. Peanutbutter and nuts are great stuff for calories and protein and I started putting plain butter on things that I ate, especially in things that I cook. If I remember correctly, 2 lbs of butter have about 6000 calories. Hot dang that is a good weight to calorie ratio. Of course that is a lot of butter, I will usually just carry a 12-16 oz tub for 5 days.

Best way I have found to save food weight is to get a good home dehydrator and religiously start drying everything you can. This technique has lightened my food load by 30%.

[-Animal]

And please, I don't wish to hear arguements about what I should/should not carry. And I am not questioning what you should/should not carry or eat. I simply wish to know exactly what it is that you do carry for those 4 days to create/eat satisfying foods. I also would prefer to hear from many of you that carry a stove(alky or white gas) for making hot meals, since that does add weight to the pack.

I usually shop for two weeks of food at a time so this is a different exercise for me. Four days shopping list-
2 boxes of poptarts 29.4 oz 3200cal $4
1 tub Oatmeal 18oz 2000cal $1.65
2 pks Tortias 28oz 2200cal $2.78
1 pk Bologna 16oz 1000cal $1.28
2 jar Peanut Butter 32oz 6000cal $4
1 jar Jelly 22oz 1550cal $1.88
1 box Little Debbies 18oz 2000cal $1.66
Totals= 153.4oz 17950cal $ 17.25
Meals should be self-explanatory. All this food is no cook. I eat spoonfuls of raw oatmeal with peanut butter. Spend some money to get some veggies…I get mine for free.

[Deadeye]

I'm not going to try to convince anyone of anything, but since you asked, I can give you my info. My pack, without food and water weighs about 14 pounds. At 2 pounds of food per day plus the weight of the bear canister and a quart of water (I rarely carry more), I start a 5-day trip at about 28 pounds, and end it at 14. I don't bring much extra, but I do splurge on my hammock, and I hike and camp very comfortably.

[Deadeye]

And if I read the question all the way through, I can answer it better! My breakfast is usually muesli or granola & milk. Lots of nuts and dried fruits (applies, dates, apricots, raisins, prunes, etc.) and cheese for snacks. Tortillas w/ PB&J for lunches, or bagels & spam, or whatever. Dinners are combos of mashed potatoes or noodles with dried veggies and a can/pouch of chicken/salmon/tuna/spam.