Service Dogs with Thru-Hikers, GSMNP

[SawnieRobertson]

I took a bold move this morning in the interest of getting official rather than opinionated information out about the admissibility of service dogs' being allowed to hike the AT through GSMNP.
Yes, I called the backcountry office and asked.

The ranger said that service dogs with their thruhikers are allowed. All we need is our documentation. I did not ask him what kind of documentation, from one's physician or from a vest selling business. I presumed the former.

I also asked about the $$$ involved. He said that we can get our permits online.

Fleur and I are grateful. It probably won't be this year, but whenever it is, I won't let those negative comments bother me as we prepare.

[johnnybgood]

That is good news for disabed persons struggling with mobility concerns. Has this been a recent procedural change Sawnie or has the park simply not publized this for whatever reason ? I do believe in equal rights for the disabled and hope this allows you accessability to the hiking trails you were missing out on.

[Don H]

Check out the ADA website: http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
"

When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task."

[Feral Bill]

Check out the ADA website: http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
"

When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task."

The service performed must, I believe, more than "emotional support" and such. In iffy situations, I doubt anyone would be turned away. There will be people who will cheat to bring their pets along. I trust the OP is not in that group.

[rickb]

My understanding is that the ADA does not apply to any federal agency. Period.

That said, most federal agencies do need to follow other rules including the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.

[CarlZ993]

My understanding is that the ADA does not apply to any federal agency. Period.

That said, most federal agencies do need to follow other rules including the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.

I'm not sure this statement is correct. I was in the Grand Canyon at Indian Gardens when an inspector was making sure that the composting toilet was ADA compliant. The Park Service flew him down to the camp in a helicopter to inspect it. Reason? It was 3,000' below the South Rim on the Bright Angel Trail.

I thought it was a little unlikely that a mobility-handicapped person would use that facility. Maybe if they were riding a mule.

[Hot Flash]

Check out the ADA website: http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
"

When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task."

They can, however, require documentation that the animal has all been properly vaccinated, and turn you away if it has not. So I would assume this is the "documentation" to which the ranger referred.

[Alligator]

I took a bold move this morning in the interest of getting official rather than opinionated information out about the admissibility of service dogs' being allowed to hike the AT through GSMNP.
Yes, I called the backcountry office and asked.

The ranger said that service dogs with their thruhikers are allowed. All we need is our documentation. I did not ask him what kind of documentation, from one's physician or from a vest selling business. I presumed the former.

I also asked about the $$$ involved. He said that we can get our permits online.

Fleur and I are grateful. It probably won't be this year, but whenever it is, I won't let those negative comments bother me as we prepare.

It is unclear what documentation you might need?

Service Dog Central discusses the rules for National Parks. On that page, they refer to this letter outlining DOI's plan for the parks concerning disability legislation. The federal government has rules to follow under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. The letter discusses how Congress has stated that the intent of the ADA and section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act be essentially the same. Which means basically they can only ask you the two questions noted by Don H in post #3. There is a thing called an Access Pass, which is like a free park pass for individuals with disabilities, but I don't know if that applies to the backcountry permit fee. It could be what the employee was referring to. Or it could just be your permit is what they were talking about too. Probably would be a good idea to clarify with them what they were asking for.

[SawnieRobertson]

For those who want to understand the disability and service dog law, not just what someone thinks is the law, the Department of Justice has an information line as well as a telephone information line 1-800-514-0301.

Feral Bill. thank you for your trust. Almost every disability served by the ADA is not visible. There are mobility dogs and dogs for the blind, but there are also those for the deaf, post-traumatics, and on and on through life-limiting psychiatric problems. The dogs themselves are well-trained, even those who, like psychiatric dogs, are usually trained by their handlers (owners) who are trained by dog trainers who are especially qualified. They will not be chasing deer.llowed to focus, they will walk quietly down the trail on leash within a couple of feet ahead, beside, or behind of their owner. If the owner needs their attention because of an approaching incident of the disability, they need to be able to be alert to that.

People who walk up to them, pet them, talk to them, all that stuff need to read up on their behaviors. It is okay to talk with the handler about the dog but it is not okay to talk or pet the dog. And don't worry, the dog gets plenty loving and play time when not working.

[SawnieRobertson]

The permit the backcountry ranger and I exchanged information about is the one that any of us are required to obtain. You know, the 50 miles fore or aft and the $$$ now required.

[Alligator]

...
The ranger said that service dogs with their thruhikers are allowed. All we need is our documentation. I did not ask him what kind of documentation, from one's physician or from a vest selling business. I presumed the former.

...

The documentation you refer to in your quote, can you clarify what they were asking for exactly? Or are you saying that the backcountry permit is all that is necessary?

[SawnieRobertson]

What a conversation we must have had! It was just a very quick telephone call on my part, educating myself. When he said "documentation," I understood the documentation that any service dog owner should have from his/her physician prescribing the use/support of a service dog as treatment for whatever the disability is. There was nothing said about immunizations. The dog becomes in essence an extension of its handler and vice versa. Of course! the dog is going to be vaccinated if it is walking through the woods shared by raccoons and skunks. That is just common sense. If we were going to Honduras to work with horses, I think I would have to have the preventative shots as well. If you think the shots are well advised, and your dog is doing a thru with you, then by all means use your intelligence as you see fit.

But Alligator asked a specific question, and upon reflection I believe the answer was addressed. I did ask if the doctor's order had to be presented as we got our permit (the kind we all get if we have fulfilled the 50-mile and $$$ thing). He said that it never would need to be presented unless by some chance the dog and hiker met a ranger on the trail. Then all that would be needed would be to whip out the usual permit and, if asked, the script.

Someone, please, just call the ADA, the backcountry office at GSMNP, your whoever, but let me take a rest now.
I'm just an old lady (?) with a service dog and a great desire to spend a great deal of time walking from Point A to Point Finish on the AT.

I love you all. Have a Happy, Peaceful New Year.

[Hot Flash]

. Of course! the dog is going to be vaccinated if it is walking through the woods shared by raccoons and skunks. That is just common sense.

Seriously, nothing is "common sense" when dealing with the average human being.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Seriously, nothing is "common sense" when dealing with the average human being.

Nor is anything "average"

[Alligator]

Thanks SawnieRobertson. Service dogs in GSMNP comes up from time to time as a topic so I was just wanting to get the information out. I knew that the federal government had rules for access but I didn't know it was a different piece of legislation from the ADA.

[Slo-go'en]

I would hope that people who require service dogs realise and accept the fact that because of thier disability there are places which it is not possible for them to access. Although thier dog can help them lead a more "normal" life there are still limitations. And if dogs are not allowed in certian areas, they should realise there are good reasons for those restrictions and they should respect those rules, even if in theory they are exempt.

On a practical side, with the GSMNP is particular, shelters along the AT tend to be full nearly all the time. They are very crowded when full with very little room to move around, especially if it is raining (which it often is) with everyone and their packs under the roof. Add a dog to this mix, even a well trained service dog is going to have issues. Basically, you'd have to tie it up outside to keep it out from under foot. Under these conditions, there is no way the dog will be able to perform it's intended service.

[4eyedbuzzard]

As far as I know, service dogs enjoy the same rights of access as their owners. This would include shelters, whether it inconveniences or upsets other hikers our not. The law isn't really debatable.

[Alligator]

I would hope that people who require service dogs realise and accept the fact that because of thier disability there are places which it is not possible for them to access. Although thier dog can help them lead a more "normal" life there are still limitations. And if dogs are not allowed in certian areas, they should realise there are good reasons for those restrictions and they should respect those rules, even if in theory they are exempt.

On a practical side, with the GSMNP is particular, shelters along the AT tend to be full nearly all the time. They are very crowded when full with very little room to move around, especially if it is raining (which it often is) with everyone and their packs under the roof. Add a dog to this mix, even a well trained service dog is going to have issues. Basically, you'd have to tie it up outside to keep it out from under foot. Under these conditions, there is no way the dog will be able to perform it's intended service.

Here's a link for you to read over about some of the types of service dogs. A number of the services provided would not at all limit an individual hiking in GSMNP. These dogs undergo a lot of training, being in a room with 8 people probably isn't much of a challenge, these dogs often operate in large cities. An individual has every right to exercise their civil rights under the law. Might be a disabled veteran even who has one, and they definitely will have earned it. Let's not get into second guessing what a disabled person can and can't do. There are numerous examples in the world of people overcoming difficult odds.

[The Weasel]

Slo - Why do you expect a service dog to "have issues." No shelter is more confining than under a coach window seat on an airplane; Chase lies there cooperatively for as long as 7 hours. He's trained for that, as are all true service dogs. Sure, if you step on him, he will "Yipe!" So will I. But he's a lot more congenial than most other shelter residents, and smells better as well. And if the shelter is full on a nice night, I'm sorry; he's as entitle to his tiny spot on my sleeping bag (which is where he prefers to be) as you are to more space, so if you get there too late, I'm sorry. And on a bad night? There's always room in the shelter, or didn't you know that? Why should I tie HIM up and not you? So it's not the dog with issues...it's you.

TW

[The Weasel]

As far as I know, service dogs enjoy the same rights of access as their owners. This would include shelters, whether it inconveniences or upsets other hikers our not. The law isn't really debatable.

Bingo. Speaking as both a hiker, a handicapped person, and an attorney with realtime ADA experience, you nailed it in under 35 words.

TW