Outside Your Circle of Trust

[bamboo bob]

My first hiking poles were bamboo cross countru ski poles bought in a yard sale.

As were mine, thus the trail name.

[Bati]

I learned what not to trust before I made it to Fontana Dam northbound. My North Face Tadpole tent had a major failure the second night I used it. Granted, the weather was extreme, but the design was flawed and they refused to replace the bent pole for free. In fact, the company wouldn't even take a repair/warrently call on the 1-800 number. That ended my trust with them. I had some gear from REI, including a lexan mug that cracked, and gaiters that were shredded near the snaps (but still worked.) Since the items had been used for 2 weeks before failure, I made a note and don't buy the brand unless it's something I won't be depending on (such as a lunchbox).
Other gear has failed but worked fine in field and been repaired by the manufacturer at no cost other than return shipping. Dana Designs (back in the day) was fantastic; I'll be looking for a mystery ranch when my current Dana fails. My Yellowstone developed a cracked framesheet, which mystified them as I never had it out in anything below -20. However, despite the crack, it worked OK while broken, and was repaired for free. When I finally got rid of that pack years later, the cordura was thoroughly trashed, possibly from UV damage. I bought another Dana without a second thought.
Katadyn's pocket filter is another example. I've bent the plunger, frozen it (barely- pump it dry but if it's cold enough some drops of water will manage to freeze on the ends), and abused it with glacier runoff and skanky mud puddles in a road, but it's field maintainable and never let me down (unless you count the obvious time to replace the filter which took years.)
Nalgene is another good example- the old style bottles (not lexan) won't die unless they're very old, you filled them too full on a cold day, or you drop them too far. I've even seen one that contained metal pliers and fell about 70 feet onto rocks (not on a backpacking trip, of course) where the only broken part was the lid.
The biggest problem with breaking the circle of trust is that it's nearly impossible to ever recreate it.

[Tipi Walter]

Other gear has failed but worked fine in field and been repaired by the manufacturer at no cost other than return shipping. Dana Designs (back in the day) was fantastic; I'll be looking for a mystery ranch when my current Dana fails.


The biggest problem with breaking the circle of trust is that it's nearly impossible to ever recreate it.

The Danas and Mystery Ranch systems are great---I recently sent my G6000 pack in for repairs and they returned it fixed with no charge. And like I said, the Exped boys got a pic of my blown downmat and sent a new one no questions.

BUT, even with great customer service, a piece of gear can fall out of my circle of trust and it may be, as you say, impossible to ever recreate it. Sometimes I have to carry backups just in case a thing fails and I'm in the middle of nowhere. Like a spare hipbelt buckle or an MSR stove pump or extra tent shock cord or even a spare tent pole section.

[chiefiepoo]

Outside of the circle; pair of Meidl boots from Cabellas. Not only a complete failure of a sole that disintegrated and delaminated in the back country of Glacier NP in year 3 but a failure of Cabellas with an offer of $50 proration on a pair of $215 boots.

Inside the circle; My Big Agness Seedhouse 2 tent. Survived 50 mph gusts on the Scottish moors in open space with minimum wear and tear.

[Terry7]

I have bought 3 six moon design tents over the last 7 years. The last 2 failed, I will never buy a product from them again. Henry Shire from now on.

[fiddlehead]

TNF (The North Face) gore-tex $350 rain jacket: Soaked through in little time, as did my friends when we were hiking in CO.
I switched to Frogg Toggs and never looked back. That jacket is now reserved for when I have to go to the mall (about all it's good for IMO)

Dromedary bag: leaked at 10degrees in the Himalayas. What good is a water carrier if it's going to leak all over your clothes when you really need them dry?

My zipper broke on my Black Diamond Mega-mid tent (after 2 thru hikes, so, not complaining at all.

My Go-lite Breeze delaminated so, I bitched and they replaced it. The new one they sent me has been on two thru's and countless other hikes. Holding up well.

Gear that has done more then 3 thru's without fail: My MSR pocket rocket, my Integral Designs Sil-shelter (my brother uses it every year for self supported kayak trips too), My EverNew 1.3 litre cook kit. (replaced the pot once but the handle has now done 6 thru-hikes), My Thai style aluminium spoon (2nd one as I tried to get cold peanut butter out of a jar once too often with the 1st one) My Ginzu paring knife. (indestructible)

[-Animal]

Great subject!
Outside my circle of trust- Crocks. The simple ones…they are ok for camp but terrible for hiking. Their failure led me to a real gem.
Inside my circle of trust- O'rageous watersport 2 $18.99 from Academy. My first pair has over 1000 trail miles and still going. Super lightweight and fast drying…great for camp and trail. It has a thick, somewhat spongy, hard to destroy sole to it. The bottom has a surface that grips when wet. –best shoes I have found. In the fall they go on sale for $9.
http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_690326_-1__?N=290330468&count=2&affcode=42&kwid=ps_cse&cid =PLA_0023413636&gclid=CKLlpvWKsLwCFZNj7AodhgoAbA

[Tipi Walter]

Inside the circle; My Big Agness Seedhouse 2 tent. Survived 50 mph gusts on the Scottish moors in open space with minimum wear and tear.

This is what I like to hear and this is what it's all about---combat tested and future-trusted.

I have bought 3 six moon design tents over the last 7 years. The last 2 failed, I will never buy a product from them again. Henry Shire from now on.

It's sort of amazing how many backpackers here on Whiteblaze praise the Six Moon Design tents---Oops, Terry7 comes along to instill a bit of sobriety.

Dromedary bag: leaked at 10degrees in the Himalayas. What good is a water carrier if it's going to leak all over your clothes when you really need them dry?

Gear that has done more then 3 thru's without fail: My MSR pocket rocket, my Integral Designs Sil-shelter (my brother uses it every year for self supported kayak trips too), My EverNew 1.3 litre cook kit. (replaced the pot once but the handle has now done 6 thru-hikes), My Thai style aluminium spoon (2nd one as I tried to get cold peanut butter out of a jar once too often with the 1st one) My Ginzu paring knife. (indestructible)

What good is a leaking water carrier? I wonder if the designers even try out their stuff, for an hour. The EverNew non-stick fry pot is an elusive creature to find, buy and use. I'm stuck with the MSR Flex pot and drat it but I'm on my 3rd $30.00 pot in one year (!!!!). Yes, the teflon coating quickly delaminates and it's a real bummer unless you enjoy having a steady supply of polytetrafluoroethylene in your diet. I've written screeds on the subject in my trip reports but hopefully my third pot will be okay if I use lamb fur gloves and never stir and keep it in the box it came in and never use it.

Here is the Flex pot in action---Wonderful concept, crappy engineering---

Great subject!
Outside my circle of trust- Crocks. The simple ones…they are ok for camp but terrible for hiking. Their failure led me to a real gem.
Inside my circle of trust- O'rageous watersport 2 $18.99 from Academy. My first pair has over 1000 trail miles and still going. Super lightweight and fast drying…great for camp and trail. It has a thick, somewhat spongy, hard to destroy sole to it. The bottom has a surface that grips when wet. –best shoes I have found. In the fall they go on sale for $9.
http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_690326_-1__?N=290330468&count=2&affcode=42&kwid=ps_cse&cid =PLA_0023413636&gclid=CKLlpvWKsLwCFZNj7AodhgoAbA

It's weird how one piece of gear is inside the circle for one person and outside for another. I love my crocs, if it's possible to love a couple globs of soft rubber-like stuff, and a pair goes out with me on every trip for the all-important creek crossings and camp shoes. For camp the things are quick and easy to put on and remove. But thanks for the link as I'll check out your recommendation.


After a winter creek crossing---the beloved crocs. (Sometimes the crappy snaps come off or get lost and the back strap flaps in the wind. Bummer. Carry extra snaps, or what they call "rivets".

[The Solemates]

I abuse my equipment, and have not had too many problems that I blame the manufacturer. Only one stands out:

I'll never buy a pair of Garmont boots again. They suck, and they have terrible customer service.

[Rain Man]

I haven't had too many important failures over the years, but here are a couple.

I tried for a long time to find a small "jet flame" style lighter, so I would not have to turn a regular lighter upside down and burn my fingers while trying to light alcohol stoves. Thought I finally found the answer at a Cabela's in Pennsylvania. This little thing (photo below) worked great ... for a very brief while. At the rate I used it, it should have lasted years. Lasted a few weeks and most of that was setting on a shelf at home. FAIL.

A bigger failure was an REI pack, but of course they swapped it with no hassle, so rather than leaving my circle of trust, REI continued to remain in the absolute center of it. Still, here's the situation.

I began a section hike (all of Maryland) a couple years ago. Left Harpers Ferry, walked across the railroad bridge, and started on the tow-path along the Potomac River, a perfectly flat 3-mile stroll. At about a mile into my hike, I felt something thud against my butt, but couldn't figure out what it was at first and continued for a few minutes. Finally took the pack off and eventually saw that all the heavy-duty stitching holding the pack body to the waist-belt had broken/snapped/dissoved/whatever. I hiked all of Maryland with only shoulder straps and what support the small horizontal stabilizer straps still attached to the waist-belt could offer.

Another failure that strengthened position in my circle of trust was last August climbing Wildcat Mountain out of Pinkham Notch. You have to climb across/up some pretty steep exposed solid rock faces on that climb. As I was taking a step, and lifting my back foot, my front foot slipped and I held my Leki hiking poles for dear life. One snapped and one bent severely. I was able to use good parts from each pole to fashion a single functioning pole, which served me well all the way to Grafton Notch, the end of our section hike. Later when back home, I called Leki to buy replacement parts and they mailed me new parts for each pole, no charge.

Rain Man

.

[martinb]

Let's see, there's the MSR mutha hubba that, for no explained reason, fly became stickier than gum on a hot sidewalk. It was replaced, free, by a fly with inadequate ventilation. This meant serious dripping condensation during any rainstorm in the SE. It now sits in the closet, unsellable because I would never let someone go out in it and I'm certainly not trusitng in on any BP trip.

I have/had a couple of tarp tents that were pretty miserable in SE downpours. One is gone and he other sits in the gear closet and will not be used except for a quick, local overnighter with zero possibility of rain.

[Tipi Walter]

I haven't had too many important failures over the years, but here are a couple.

A bigger failure was an REI pack, but of course they swapped it with no hassle, so rather than leaving my circle of trust, REI continued to remain in the absolute center of it. Still, here's the situation.

I began a section hike (all of Maryland) a couple years ago. Left Harpers Ferry, walked across the railroad bridge, and started on the tow-path along the Potomac River, a perfectly flat 3-mile stroll. At about a mile into my hike, I felt something thud against my butt, but couldn't figure out what it was at first and continued for a few minutes. Finally took the pack off and eventually saw that all the heavy-duty stitching holding the pack body to the waist-belt had broken/snapped/dissoved/whatever. I hiked all of Maryland with only shoulder straps and what support the small horizontal stabilizer straps still attached to the waist-belt could offer.

Another failure that strengthened position in my circle of trust was last August climbing Wildcat Mountain out of Pinkham Notch. You have to climb across/up some pretty steep exposed solid rock faces on that climb. As I was taking a step, and lifting my back foot, my front foot slipped and I held my Leki hiking poles for dear life. One snapped and one bent severely. I was able to use good parts from each pole to fashion a single functioning pole, which served me well all the way to Grafton Notch, the end of our section hike. Later when back home, I called Leki to buy replacement parts and they mailed me new parts for each pole, no charge.

Rain Man

.

Your pack problem is a serious field failure and can really complicate a trip. I probably should deeply inspect my pack before I go out every time, just in case. On my next trip I'm using a new pack which has not been "combat tested" even though it is brand new. Just being new is no guarantee. I have to load it up at home and hike around the house to make sure there are no surprises.

Hiking poles get a lot of abuse and I'm continually replacing the titanium tips on my Black Diamond cork models. The metal point always ends up falling off. Easy though to fix with replacement tips. And like your experience, I have broken a couple hiking poles over the years when I slip and put all my combined weight on the things. Oops. Here is a recent aluminum pole failure on the Stiffknee trail in the Slickrock wilderness---coming down the mountain in 6 inches of snow and I slipped like a bonobo monkey in a vaseline factory---SNAPPED!

I abuse my equipment, and have not had too many problems that I blame the manufacturer. Only one stands out:

I'll never buy a pair of Garmont boots again. They suck, and they have terrible customer service.

Boots get the ire of many backpackers---we use them to death.

Let's see, there's the MSR mutha hubba that, for no explained reason, fly became stickier than gum on a hot sidewalk. It was replaced, free, by a fly with inadequate ventilation. This meant serious dripping condensation during any rainstorm in the SE. It now sits in the closet, unsellable because I would never let someone go out in it and I'm certainly not trusitng in on any BP trip.

I have/had a couple of tarp tents that were pretty miserable in SE downpours. One is gone and he other sits in the gear closet and will not be used except for a quick, local overnighter with zero possibility of rain.

The MSR tent sounds like a give-away item to someone who wants to expand their repair skills. I once gave away an older Mt Hardwear Mountain Jet to someone who had a real weakness for that particular model. I guess you could call it charity---the Bill Gates of outdoor gear? No, just doled out a few things.

Critical of Tarptents?? Wow, blashphemy!!! I love to hear people complain about TarpTents. It makes me feel good for some reason.

THE TOOTHBRUSH FAILURE IN THE FIELD
This is hardly worth mentioning but it happened on a trip, with a consequent field repair---


My toothbrush snapped in half so I melted the broken part onto the handle and Voila! Serviceable.

[BrianLe]

Outside of my circle of trust are, in general, relatively small "ultralight" zippers, on clothing or tents. I've had trouble with at least five different items from this, they all seem to degrade and cause trouble. And I'm not a person who is particularly hard on gear.

Also somewhat outside are Injinji socks. I'll still bring these if I think that toe blisters are a likely issue, but fortunately that's rare in recent years. I find that if I get 500 miles on a pair of Injinji's before I've got big holes at the ball of the foot, I'm doing well, whereas something like a fox river liner sock lasts significantly longer --- and typically slowly wears out at the toe area because I've failed to keep my nails trimmed. I find the ball-of-foot failure point to be odd, as more typically socks wear out at the heels. I guess rather than say "outside the circle" it's just more that I recognize this as a limitation of Injinji socks. To be fair, I haven't bought any in a few years, always possible they've improved on this.

Inside my cicle of trust --- lots and lots of things. ASIC shoes, Montbell products, Western Mountaineering, ULA, Feathered Friends, Outdoor Research, ZPacks, Ursack, Thermarest, Lightheart Designs, Tarptent, MSR ...

I've owned quite a mix of gear items over the years and put more miles on my stuff than most; barring some individual manufacturer defect, I think that most gear from well-known as well as cottage industry companies works wonderfully well relative to weight and price. I.e., if I buy a truly ultralight backpack, I don't expect to get much more than a couple thousand miles of use out of it, that sort of thing.

[poopsy]

This is a really good thread. Thanks Tipi.

Outside my circle are: all shoes, all socks and SVEA 123 stoves. The reason for SVEA 123 stoves is self-evident. But shoes and socks take constant vigilence. They may be good for a while and then whammo: blow outs, blisters, holes etc. You gotta watch those socks and shoes all the time.

I've also given up on trekking poles. But that's mostly because I can't seem to trust myself to remember where I last put them down. My solution is to pick up a broom handle or stick whenever I need one.

[George]

cannot think of any outside - for inside:

anything I have from outdoor research - this is one of those companies that should be out of business because their stuff lasts too long

asic shoes - I finished up the 10 pair of light mesh runners that averaged about 300 miles each - pretty good for what they are/ weigh,
got 6 pair of a sturdier/ heavier model

Kompronell 4 section(great to fly with), knob top, carbon fiber stick - unfortunately this is no longer made so when it does die I am SOL - I just changed the tip again - I think I wore out 5 carbide tips so far, the bottom section is battered and scarred - but it just will not die

[Tom Murphy]

inside my circle - SILVA compass, Z-REST CCF pad, JRB 8x10 tarp, SVEA 123R white gas stove, also the published temperature ratings for MARMOT sleeping bags has always been reliabile [own 4 of them]

outside my circle - my ability to start and/or sustain a fire in winter or rainy conditions; I have had too many failures in practice conditions as a result I now make sure I always have a shelter and enough dry insulation for the forcasted overnight low temperature, even on relatively short day hikes

[Drybones]

I tried for a long time to find a small "jet flame" style lighter, so I would not have to turn a regular lighter upside down and burn my fingers while trying to light alcohol stoves. .

Can't remember who posted it, but someone made me feel like a total idiot when they posted the solution to the lighter burning the fingers, I was searching for a jet lighter as you were. They suggested dipping a twig, pine needle, whatever is at hand, into the alcohol and lighting it to start the stove, works perfect every time....can't believe I didn't think of that....and I'm supposed to be an engineer?...how humiliating!

[flemdawg1]

BA Aircore pads, had 5 in 4 years. And got tired of them slowly leaking all the time. Had a thermarest prolite the last 2 years and no problems yet.

teva trail runners- entire tread peeled off after about 60 miles.

BPL Abasoroka pack- BPL is no longer in the gear biz, I suspect this pack is why. Hipbelt wouldn't stay on.

[Tipi Walter]

Also somewhat outside are Injinji socks. I'll still bring these if I think that toe blisters are a likely issue, but fortunately that's rare in recent years. I find that if I get 500 miles on a pair of Injinji's before I've got big holes at the ball of the foot, I'm doing well, whereas something like a fox river liner sock lasts significantly longer --- and typically slowly wears out at the toe area because I've failed to keep my nails trimmed. I find the ball-of-foot failure point to be odd, as more typically socks wear out at the heels. I guess rather than say "outside the circle" it's just more that I recognize this as a limitation of Injinji socks. To be fair, I haven't bought any in a few years, always possible they've improved on this.

You bring up a good point of trust and gear, namely that several pieces of backpacking gear are "disposable" and therefore rarely a cause for concern or "trust". Case in point, socks. To me they are basically disposable items with season to season replacement. If I can get a year out of a pair of $20 Smartwool Mountaineer socks (thickest they make), I consider myself happy and eager to buy the next pair.

This goes for lexan spoons or Sea to Summit metal spoons or water bottles or shoelaces (duh) or t-shirts or silk/merino baselayers or hiking baseball style hats. Or even boots. I consider boots to be disposable items and feel great if I can get 12-18 months on a pair.

Other items even when two years old should not fail with proper care. The Exped is a case in point. And I've heard a lot of stories of NeoAir failures in the field.

[Hot Flash]

Great subject!
Outside my circle of trust- Crocks. The simple ones…they are ok for camp but terrible for hiking. Their failure led me to a real gem.
Inside my circle of trust- O'rageous watersport 2 $18.99 from Academy. My first pair has over 1000 trail miles and still going. Super lightweight and fast drying…great for camp and trail. It has a thick, somewhat spongy, hard to destroy sole to it. The bottom has a surface that grips when wet. –best shoes I have found. In the fall they go on sale for $9.
http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_690326_-1__?N=290330468&count=2&affcode=42&kwid=ps_cse&cid =PLA_0023413636&gclid=CKLlpvWKsLwCFZNj7AodhgoAbA

Ooof, 16 oz per shoe? No thanks.