Water Treatment, Bleach??

[Seeker]

FEMA recommends 16 drops per gallon for suspicious water sources during disasters.

i just use aqua mira... light, no taste (though some do report it), and it's what many municipalities use (chlorine dioxide, that is, not AM drops!)

[Amigi'sLastStand]

Is Aqua Mira UL/NSF/ANSI certified to kill giardia or crypto? Not that I can find. Also, doesn't the side of the bottle say it is not effective against cysts? Cant remember. Let me know.
Crypto isn't much of a threat on the AT, and you're much more likely to get giardia from other hikers and privies, than from water on the trail.

Either buy and carry a good filter, or save your money for cheeseburgers. JMO.

[fiddlehead]

The worst i found was in the red desert section and i searched around until i found a source. Yes it was coming right out of a cow paddy. I cleaned it up best i could, waited about 30 minutes, used my windscreen for my stove to funnel it into my pesi bottle, and used about 4 drops of chorine on that one. I drank tea that night instead of water (hot) and got fresh water as soon as i could. It wasn't so bad although i wouldn't want to have to drink it like that too often. I didn't get sick though and that's what counts.
You know, and old cowboy told me that the cattlemen don't treat the water and often drink water from a stream that has cow dung in it. They don't believe that cow's carry giardia. I tend to agree with them. I like to find small trickles of running water. I believe the ground is the best filter. (but not cow dung )

[The Hog]

The reality, unfortunately, is that cows carry lots of intestinal parasites that are transmissible to humans. One of them is E. coli 0157:H7. That's the same strain of E. coli that is sometimes transmitted in undercooked beef. Something like one out of every 24 cows has this in their intestinal tract. E. coli 0157:H7 causes bloody diarrhea in humans that can (and sometimes does) lead to hemolytic uremic syndrome, which can kill you.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

My grandparents lived their entire adult lives in a house that was built by my great-great grandfather. Its water source was a shallow, hand-dug well. When the prissy engineers from the department of health got around to examining said well, they found several pathogens and frogs living in it and declared that my grandparents must install a treatment system. Papa did and promptly disconnected the @#$&% thing the moment the inspectors left because "it makes the water taste awful". No one ever got sick on the water. - not babies, not the old and frail, not even my cousin who allergic to everything.

While I'm sure that the engineers who test water and tell us how pure our water 'has' to be think they are correct, I think they overstate the dangers a lot. Fact is, people like Granny Gatewood hiked the trail long before there were filters, drops or tablets and survived. Many people hike it today without treating the water and survive. I would certainly boil water in an area with cow patties (and only use that water if no other was available).

[Mountain Maiden]

Anyone have any experience or opinions with KlearWater (by Xinix)? It is advertised as a"no-mix" chlorine dioxide and distributed by BPLight.

[Butch Cassidy]

I went from Springer to Maine in 05. Never filtered, only treated water twice and did not get as much as an upset stomach. I do not recomend this, I just chose to be selective of water and accept the risk. ON the other hand My son with whom I am hiking with next year has decided to filter. I guess that blows the age and wisdom thing out the window huh? Butch Team Wild bunch GaMe 07

[fiddlehead]

The reality, unfortunately, is that cows carry lots of intestinal parasites that are transmissible to humans. One of them is E. coli 0157:H7. That's the same strain of E. coli that is sometimes transmitted in undercooked beef. Something like one out of every 24 cows has this in their intestinal tract. E. coli 0157:H7 causes bloody diarrhea in humans that can (and sometimes does) lead to hemolytic uremic syndrome, which can kill you.

So how does this (E. coli 0157:H7) react to chorine? Why is it I (and so many others who don't treat) don't get sick?
Why can the people of Nepal all drink the local water and not get sick, yet when we go there, so many westerners get sick? Is it because of our (or their) immune system is better? Or we have been exposed to the problem and our bodies have adjusted same as the locals? or is it because chorine works? or a combination of the 3?

[Panzer1]

I just use an empty eyedropper bottle--wrapped in duct tape, so that no one confuses it with eye drops.

Actually that does makes a lot of sense to wrap the bottle in duct tape. I have heard of hikers that do not do this. I can only imagine the horrors of what might happen if someone, somehow found an lost eye drop bottle with bleach in and used it in their eyes.

Panzer

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

So how does this (E. coli 0157:H7) react to chorine?

From - E. coli0157:H7 in drinking water -- US EPASource page: http://www.epa.gov/safewater/ecoli.html
How is water treated to protect me from E. coli?
The water can be treated using chlorine, ultra-violet light, or ozone, all of which act to kill or inactivate E. coli.

Why is it I (and so many others who don't treat) don't get sick? Why can the people of Nepal all drink the local water and not get sick, yet when we go there, so many westerners get sick? Is it because of our (or their) immune system is better? Or we have been exposed to the problem and our bodies have adjusted same as the locals? or is it because chlorine works? or a combination of the 3?

I think chlorine is more effective on pathogens commonly found in water sources available to hikers who are carefully selecting their sources than those who sell filters and other water purification products used by hikers would have us believe.

I also believe that exposure to pathogens in small quantities likely does lead to the development of antibodies - sort of like what having had diseases like the measles or mumps or the vaccines for those diseases does. The immune system has a strong memory that enables it to recognize foreign substances that enter the body even if the exposure occurred many years before. Immune memory is particular to specific germs and it does not mean that immune memory has been developed for all types of germs. This would explain why Nepal's natives can drink water that contained pathogens they have been exposed to all of their lives while drinking the same water makes unexposed Westerners ill.

[The Hog]

Yes, depending on the dosage, chlorine should kill all of the pathogenic and nonpathogenic strains of E. coli. But, as has been stated elsewhere, chlorine will not kill all the bugs in your water, so chlorine alone cannot be recommended as an effective water treatment.

Remember that animal feces contain a large array of microorganisms that include viruses, bacteria, and protozoa. These feces are either deposited in, or washed into (by rainfall) so-called "pristine" water sources. An effective water treatment removes or kills these three classes of bugs. If any are left out, you've wasted your money.

Why is it that some people never seem to get sick drinking untreated or unfiltered water? I've spent many years in a microbiology laboratory, but immunology is a whole other field. So I can't answer that question. But I can tell you one thing.

Drinking untreated and unfiltered water is dosing yourself with fecally derived organisms, some of which can and do cause disease. Anyone is of course free to take their chances, but, after spending 16 years in a water quality laboratory testing water for bacterial content, I have to say I don't recommend it.

[fiddlehead]

I am often amazed here in Thailand to see some things!
My Mother in law is in her 70's (she's not sure how old) and has never treated any water in her life and has NEVER seen a doctor! (they drink rainwater) Amazing to me.
Also, i've said this before on whiteblaze but there are some recipes and food from northeast Thailand where they eat uncooked pork and beef! They eat these fairly often and they are considered a delicacy. i won't eat that although i am trying out some of the bugs lately. (my wife loves the beetles and eats them like peanuts when she's drinking beer)

[alaxsxa]

I have treated water with iodine once. All other times i have gotten water from a water source i stay on the safe side and boil it. That leaves nothing to chance.

[SGT Rock]

I am often amazed here in Thailand to see some things!
My Mother in law is in her 70's (she's not sure how old) and has never treated any water in her life and has NEVER seen a doctor! (they drink rainwater) Amazing to me.
Also, i've said this before on whiteblaze but there are some recipes and food from northeast Thailand where they eat uncooked pork and beef! They eat these fairly often and they are considered a delicacy. i won't eat that although i am trying out some of the bugs lately. (my wife loves the beetles and eats them like peanuts when she's drinking beer)

Well part of the thing is there are certain "flora" in any water system that your body can get used to. LWolf says he never treats, and my guss is his body has adapted. Heck, there was one article that even talks about how some folks even walk around with Giardia and never know it. My guess is that people that survive into adulthood in places that have lower sanitation standards are used to it. Someone from the US where they sterilize the kid toys at the day care would probably end up in a hospital from the same stuff.

[Alligator]

...Someone from the US where they sterilize the kid toys at the day care would probably end up in a hospital from the same stuff.

LOL, I know what you are trying to say here, but my son picks up all kinds of bugs from day care.