"Hammocks are LIGHTER"??

[peter_pan]

maybe the idea of 3-4 season system is lost too in this discussion. i saw no one dare to winter in the HH where many tarped and lite weight tented. i hammocked from day 1 (march 1st) in my clark jungle hammock, which is not lite at all...3.5#s. versitility is the true plus of any hammock.

wintering in the clark requires no underquilt, overquilt, bug net is included in the package and actually adds a degree or 2 on the heat factor in winter.

the lowest temp i went thru was around 17* and slept like a baby.

Burn,

There are many here who hammock all year... there are numberous threads of 3-4 season set ups and experiences, generally into the 20s, but some below.

Like MM, I too use the HH Extreme light racer with good results ( 5-11 and 180 lbs)... I have at least 40 nights in it and no sign of wear.

Again, Three season wgt , Hammock, tarp, lines , pegs, and sleep system , under quilt , and top quilt is under 65 oz or 4 lbs... four season add another quilt 24 oz for a total loft system of 7+ inches at 85 oz or 5.25 lbs... substituting a HH BUL would still keep the Shelter and sleep system to approx 6 lbs total for a winter hammock rig.

Your post is deceptive... You say you wintered 17 degrees in a clark...nothing else... I doubt it... bet there was a pad, sleeping bag, probably long underwear, socks and possibly a skull cap.

The pockets of a Clark will enable you to store gear and create a second bottom with dead air, but that alone will not normally get a person to 17 degrees...

To one level or another, all commercially available hammocks, at this time require some form of bottom insulation at 60 degrees and below for most people... the amount varies by actual temp and personal choice of system...windshield reflectors, HH SS, pads, Dams, pads/dams organized in SPE, Pea Pods, or under quilts.

Pan

[cr113]

Here's what I'm thinking. Divide the systems (hammock and tarp/tent) into 2 categories, shelter and insulation.

Hammock shelter (hammock and tarp) = about 2 lbs.

Tarp shelter (Tarp and ground sheet) = about 2 lbs.

So the shelter part on both systems are roughly equal.

Now all that's left is insulation. For the hammock this could be an underquilt and a top blanket. For the tarp it would be a pad and bag. Assuming both systems have a combined insulation weight of 4 lbs wouldn't the pad-bag be slightly warmer since there wouldn't be as much convection?

How low can 4lbs of pad-bag take you? Maybe 15 degrees? What about 4lbs of hammock insulation? What about a 2lb underquilt with a 2lb top blanket? I'm guessing about 20-25. There's probably not that big a difference but I'm thinking the tarp is will take you to a lower temp for a given weight.

[Just Jeff]

I'm thinking the tarp is will take you to a lower temp for a given weight.

That's probably fair. But if there's no level snow, you'll still have to deal with unlevel ground, roots and rocks, runoff, etc. So it's a comfort thing.

That said, Carol Crooker still did a sub-5 base weight with a hammock, even in chilly temps. So it's possible to comfortably carry a workable hammock solution, meaning you can be comfortable in camp and while hiking.

For me, the extra 8 oz or less is worth the better night's sleep I get.

Edit - 40 oz of quilt/underquilt takes me to 35+ comfortably. With the quilt, underquilt, and full-length CCF pad I was comfortable to about 20 F...that's just over 3 lbs. So I'm guessing 64 oz will get me a lot lower than 20 F.

[Burn]

pan, you would be correct...i always store my food bag, shoes, spare wet clothes inside the undersacks of my clark. in winter i carry a zrest for insulation...i don't worry about the going lite...well within reason. i think i had 35# coming outta amicalola. i also use a 15* bag in winter cause i am skerred what can happen in the smokies. 60* tho i would swelter in a slumberjack under me. can't remember when i changed bags or dropped the zrest...it was getting old toting that sucker around when i was fine without it.

i also didn't realize folks were HHing in winter...i never saw any, and everyone who had one for summer was tenting in winter, my novice status resumes...hehehe.

i guess the only reason i posted was to say weight is not really the reason most hammock...comfort and versitility is more realistic. next time you hammockers get to laurel falls just south of pond flats, there are 2 trees right before the bending ledge around the clift....great hanging spot.

[SteveJ]

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i also didn't realize folks were HHing in winter...i never saw any, and everyone who had one for summer was tenting in winter, my novice status resumes...hehehe.
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Hi, Burn. I guess I'm really the novice around here! But, I have found it possible to hang my HH, even in the winter. Was on top of Shining Rock Mtn last weekend, with temps into the low 20's....

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/...s&cutoffdate=7

I figure I may be carrying about a pound more at these temps than if I were tarp camping... yeah, that's 16 ozs, but it's 16 ozs I'm willing to carry for a good night's sleep! I've gone into the teens several times on shining rock...and don't usually get temps lower than that here in GA. I don't have the setup to go lower than that - usually drop to the ground if I'm expecting temps into the single digits or lower.....

Steve

[Burn]

nice windbreak there steve...i would guess that is something i could do instead of staying off of ridgelines in colder weather. i guess i missed quite a few sunrises cause the prevailing winds on top.

one thing along thread lines, most hammocks, maybe all of them also have the tarp setup built in, like steve, you can always drop to the ground using the tarp...again a + for versitility in hammocking over tarping. i personally set up once almost on the ground in a rain storm, cause i was beat and once i set down i basically was on the ground....didn't matter, i was wet thru and cold, so i stayed in my bag and slept, again, like a baby.

[peter_pan]

nice windbreak there steve...i would guess that is something i could do instead of staying off of ridgelines in colder weather. i guess i missed quite a few sunrises cause the prevailing winds on top.

Burn, Steve, et al.

Nice site/set up, Steve.

You can save the weight of the extra tarp and still camp on ridge lines. Simple move 5-6 feet over the actual top to the lee side. ( 95 % of the time this will be the east side on the AT) . Any wind will go over you and you still get the sunrize view. You may have to stand or walk a few feet for the sunset view. Frequently the slope will allow you to peg the up hill side of the tarp to the ground, with the hammock at normal height, when using this technique, for even more protection.

Pan

[SteveJ]

nice windbreak there steve...i would guess that is something i could do instead of staying off of ridgelines in colder weather. i guess i missed quite a few sunrises cause the prevailing winds on top.

quote=peter_pan]Burn, Steve, et al.

Nice site/set up, Steve.

You can save the weight of the extra tarp and still camp on ridge lines....

Pan

yeah, it is a nice site, isn't it! I threw the tarp in the pack at the last minute - the last time I camped on Shining Rock we had 30+ mph winds all night. I set the hammock up off the ridge then, but also had trouble keeping my little brasslite stove lit, even with a windscreen and off the ridge. I put the 5x8 tarp in figuring that for about 8 ozs, it would help if the wind was strong.

There was virtually no wind when we set up camp - since I had the tarp I decided to go ahead and put it up and set the hammock up near the groundsleepers I was with.... It did work out pretty well, tho, as the wind did kick up a little that night..... Planning on replacing the stock HH tarp w/ an 8x8 when necessary - just haven't done it yet.....

Thanks for the advice!

Steve

[swede]

I appreciate the tips I find in the posts. One, to use a windshield reflector is a real conversation starter. Recently, on a 3 nighter, I used just the reflector and my Rokk bag in my HH. I safety pinned the reflector to the back of my bag so it would not slip out of place. The temps ranged down to about 38 with a 10 mph breeze. The only problem is I am the camp cook, so I have to get up first from my nest. I need a new krewe.