Jetboil titanium upgrade?

**gardenville** · 10-09-2005, 19:42

Find a used JetBoil real cheap. Take the Flex Ring part off. Adapte a good alcohol soda can type stove to use with it. Been done. You now have the best of 1.5 worlds. The Flex Ring (.5)and a good alcohol stove (1).

Note however, that for the weight of the Flex Ring you don't really get your "Weights" worth in added effectiveness.

**Two Speed** · 10-09-2005, 19:50

Originally Posted by gardenville

Find a used JetBoil real cheap. Take the Flex Ring part off. Adapte a good alcohol soda can type stove to use with it. Been done. You now have the best of 1.5 worlds. The Flex Ring (.5)and a good alcohol stove (1).

Note however, that for the weight of the Flex Ring you don't really get your "Weights" worth in added effectiveness.

Or a Trangia Ti?

**gardenville** · 10-09-2005, 20:00

Originally Posted by gardenville

Find a used JetBoil real cheap. Take the Flex Ring part off. Adapte a good alcohol soda can type stove to use with it. Been done. You now have the best of 1.5 worlds. The Flex Ring (.5)and a good alcohol stove (1).

Note however, that for the weight of the Flex Ring you don't really get your "Weights" worth in added effectiveness.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/sh...cat/500/page/1

**SGT Rock** · 10-09-2005, 20:53

Well really if you think about it, you would want equal surface area for the contact of heat to the pot and pot to the water. The flux ring only works on one side of the equation, really it is a fancy windscreen when you get right down to it. To really make it work well you would want a flux ring looking thing inside the pot which would be a total disaster to clean. The better way to get heat transfer to the water is to have a wide pot with lots of surface for both ends of the equation and a flame pattern for the stove that makes optimal transfer for the pot bottom you have.

**Lanthar Mandragoran** · 10-09-2005, 21:41

Originally Posted by SGT Rock

Well really if you think about it, you would want equal surface area for the contact of heat to the pot and pot to the water. The flux ring only works on one side of the equation, really it is a fancy windscreen when you get right down to it. To really make it work well you would want a flux ring looking thing inside the pot which would be a total disaster to clean. The better way to get heat transfer to the water is to have a wide pot with lots of surface for both ends of the equation and a flame pattern for the stove that makes optimal transfer for the pot bottom you have.

for the most part, yeah. Natural convection compensates a lot for not having a flux ring inside the cup. But, yeah, essentiall the flux "increases" the effective surface area of the pot. Wide pot does the same.

**Lanthar Mandragoran** · 10-09-2005, 21:43

Originally Posted by gardenville

http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/sh...cat/500/page/1

Again, I am consistently amazed by what you make on a regular basis...

**gardenville** · 10-09-2005, 22:39

Originally Posted by Lanthar Mandragoran

Again, I am consistently amazed by what you make on a regular basis...

Thanks, but I can not claim credit for this one. There is a group of Japanese "small" stove makers that are doing some really interesting things with small stoves made out of all kinds of cans and other stuff. This was made by one of them.

I did make two of my own "Flex Rings" when the JetBoil first came out. They worked but at a price in extra weight that wasn't worth it. My current alcohol stoves can boil 16oz of water in a static test in 4 minutes and weighs about .25oz.

**Lanthar Mandragoran** · 10-10-2005, 08:25

Originally Posted by gardenville

Thanks, but I can not claim credit for this one. There is a group of Japanese "small" stove makers that are doing some really interesting things with small stoves made out of all kinds of cans and other stuff. This was made by one of them.

I did make two of my own "Flex Rings" when the JetBoil first came out. They worked but at a price in extra weight that wasn't worth it. My current alcohol stoves can boil 16oz of water in a static test in 4 minutes and weighs about .25oz.

Oh! Was it part of Yusio's (?) and the others over on BPL? They've made some crazy cool stuff.

**boomerang** · 10-10-2005, 15:16

I used a JetBoil on my thruhike this year, and have no real complaints. It was "in the ballpark" of anyone's weight related to stove, pots, and fuel. One canister lasted me two weeks, so I didn't have to resupply fuel every time I was in town like my alcohol stove buddies. It was definitely faster, on average, than other stoves at the shelter in terms of boiling and getting hot food in my belly.

My real problem with it concerned the narrow base...if you didn't watch it, water/soup was bubbling over and it was hard to shut the durn thing off (with boiling liquid coating your hands). The other problem is its price - it is much more expensive than alcohol stoves (even store-bought stoves).

The lighter mechanism lasted me all the way to Maine, where it began "missing" one out of every four ignitions. I returned it to REI after my thru, and got a new Jetboil after my hike. Not too shabby.

So, if you're anal about cooking gear, then JetBoil might not be for you, based on weight, etc. and your own gear hang-ups. If you choose to worry about other things (or not worry at all), then JetBoil is a competitive offering to any cooking system out there. The only "real" barrier is price...but maybe you'll receive one as a gift!

**Stale Cracker** · 10-10-2005, 15:54

Has any body heard anything about the new MSR multi fuel offering due out this spring? Rumors that I have heard say it knocks off the jet boil design but is multi fuel compatible and has a new gewgaw that eliminates the need to set the thing on fire to prime it when using liquid fuel.

**SGT Rock** · 10-10-2005, 15:59

I haven't seen that one yet, but I know they were working on a stove that used ceramics instead of a pump for capillary flow of the fuel. I think that the design could be a multi-fuel since the ceramics wouldn't care what fuel goes through it. We are talking about the ability to have a canister fuel weight without the re-supply issues canisters or the pomp and jet clogging problems of gas. The only thing I saw bad in the prototype was they were over-building it with a special pot and such like the JetBoil. This may be the stove you are talking about.

http://outside.away.com/outside/gear...004wrap_1.html

**Lanthar Mandragoran** · 10-10-2005, 17:42

I saw a better pic someplace... looked like a finished model...

ah... found it...

**SGT Rock** · 10-10-2005, 17:46

I would prefer to have a military model if that is what the final product. simple and light. Let me pick my pot, winscreen, etc.

**Just Jeff** · 10-10-2005, 17:50

I used my JetBoil in ~32F yesterday and it was slow going...the flame didn't get as big as it normally does. Well, slow relative to what the JB usually does. It was still faster than the other folks' cannister stoves. I suspect it was because I let the cannister get cold after my first boil that morning.

I also cracked the lid like people have posted in other threads...I guess it usually happens in cold weather. Every so often while drinking from it, the tea would run down my chin! I think JB replaces it for free, though...I'm gonna email them today.

**Lanthar Mandragoran** · 10-10-2005, 18:02

Originally Posted by SGT Rock

I would prefer to have a military model if that is what the final product. simple and light. Let me pick my pot, winscreen, etc.

absolutely agree

**Just Jeff** · 10-10-2005, 19:37

This was on the JetBoil FAQ:
http://www.jetboil.com/Contact/FAQ

===========

Why is aluminum the best material for cookware?

Aluminum's heat conductivity is far superior to both titanium and stainless steel. This conductivity is critical to Jetboil's speed and fuel efficiency. Stainless steel, while durable, is heavy. Titanium is expensive, inefficient, and scorches food easily because it is a poor distributor of heat.

**SGT Rock** · 10-10-2005, 20:07

Yes it is true that aluminum has better heat related properties. That is one reason the Vago Ti stove is sort of a dog. In pot applications, the idea is to have optimal transfer between the stove and the fire, titanium can be made VERY thin compared to an aluminum pot and have better strength at a lower weight. And at that point the insulation properties of titanium don't make a difference because of the lack of enough material to make a difference. Of course the problem can be burnt food at that point.

I'm happy with Ti pots. I've done some low tech tests of similar weight aluminum and ti and have found that on the average they perform about the same. But with ti it cleans easy and doesn't dent. The 4.01 ounce Evernew works very well although lately I have been hiking with a Heineken beer can for a pot.

**Just Jeff** · 10-10-2005, 20:14

That's a good point, Rock.

I think it's also important to remember that people who care that much about the weight difference are only a niche in the JetBoil market. Reconfiguring the production process to use titanium may simply not be profitable for them...apparently that's what they think, anyway.

**SGT Rock** · 10-10-2005, 20:21

Oh, I totally agree. That is why if I were going to do a stove like that I would choose an F1 or a Pocket Rocket - I would want to be able to set up the whole system for what I want and what works for me. I look at it the same way I see backpacking gear - I mean who really wants to buy an entire backpacking kit set up from the floor up?

Of course if they made their stove with titanium, it would change all sorts of things about the whole Flux Ring and how that integrates anyway. The system is painted into a corner unless you buy a frying pan adapter and switch to your own pot. But then again, if you want to do that you ought to just get a regular canister stove that is lighter and cheaper. Although it might be interesting to use a JetBoil cup on a Pocket Rocket and see what happens to performance.

**Just Jeff** · 10-10-2005, 20:32

Agree about buying from the ground up. For me, the convenience and speed outweighs the weight penalty, though.

Sounds like you're ready to start a new test: the JB cup on the Pocket Rocket! I think the burn pattern might make an important difference, though...the JB burns in a small ring in the middle rather than spreading flame around the pot. I'm not familiar enough with the Pocket Rocket to say for sure, but I suspect the flames would burn up the sides of the JB cup and melt the cozy.

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