Any January Starters?

[JumpMaster Blaster]

Hey Gunner: I have flight reservations into Atlanta on January 9th with a shuttle from Hartsfield to Springer, but I will make a "game time decision" after the first of the year based on snow, ice, and temps. I've been watching the weather and it was 50 degrees on most of the southern trail today. If it remains unseasonably warm, I will step off Springer headed north.

However, if the snow and ice accumulations make it prohibitive, I will either hike the Florida trail or the Palmetto trail until mid-March. Then I will bounce up to Springer. My Jan/Mar pre-hike is to work out any kinks in my equipment and work on conditioning for an extended hike.

I thought I saw where you were considering the FT in January. Did I misread?

Tabasco

Hey Teach, you're not too far from me. Good luck on your hike!

[JumpMaster Blaster]

Severe cold is one thing and a backpacker willing to carry the gear (geese, bag, pad etc) can get thru a "coldstorm" even down to -10F. Deep snow on mountain ridges and getting thru leaning collapsed rhododendron is another thing entirely and it is what usually causes most backpackers to bail into the closest town.

I call it being "land locked" when you're camping on top of a 4,000 or 5,000 foot ridge after an all-night snowstorm with 2 feet of the white stuff. Where are you now? You're locked inside Miss Nature's deep freeze whereby going in any direction is a tough slog requiring herculean effort. Postholing in 2-3 feet of snow is exquisitely demented and I feel lucky to go 3 or 4 miles in the stuff, and then needing my snow shovel if I plan on staying on the ridge to make another night's camp. I like to dig out to the ground for my tent.

The AT is known as the Green Tunnel and here the other big problem comes with a heavy new snow---Snowdowns. The green tunnel collapses on itself with heavy snow and you have a 3 feet high trail tunnel to get thru which must be done on your hands and knees with a pack on your back. What fun. Wear your rain jacket otherwise all the snow will fall down your neck. And prepare to break a sweat. And practice your swear words at home now as you'll be using them soon enough.

Another phenom happens for winter backpacking---You get caught in a nasty winter storm and lose hope that it will ever end. You set up your tent as the temps drop to Zero and the tent gets set in concrete and 2 feet of snow falls and you wake up to the bleak prospect of going no where this day. Here is where it becomes a mental game as you need to sit put and zero out a couple days until conditions change for the better and you can move. The bleak "all is lost!" mindset is what causes most backpackers to bail off the trail and do everything possible to get into a town. DON'T DO IT!

You have an exquisite way with words. You are the man, Walter.

[Tipi Walter]

Nothing worse than having to put on frozen boots in morning after you break them free from the ground. The first mile is like walking on a 2x4 until the thaw out.

One time near the end of a long winter trip, like Day 20 or something, I woke up to a surprise late season snowstorm with temps at around 12F and dangit I forgot to unlace and pull apart my soaked Asolo Fugitive boots the night before. Stupid move. It was my last day and I had a 6 mile hike out to pickup evac so I had to get moving. It took me 20 minutes of squirming to force my poor feet into these torture implements and hiking out was a joke but after a couple miles they started to thaw and got flexible.

Solution? Always pull apart your boot laces down to the bottom and pull the tongue out and spread the suckers apart.

[JBandStacy2014]

For the record, Gunner IS on the trail...he has been on the trail for a week....

--- Gunner AKA Tear Drop

[Boots and Backpacks]

For the record, Gunner IS on the trail...he has been on the trail for a week....

--- Gunner AKA Tear Drop

Are you guy getting on the trail tomorrow? How about your pack, get it taken care of?

Do you have an ETA on when you "think" you might be in Hot Springs? That's going to be our first major stop, and we'll be there for a couple days.

[JBandStacy2014]

Taking a Zero at Neel Gap tomorrow to get my pack fixed...Then coming back for Blood Mountain...Still not 100% sure about hot springs, but I can tell you this much...we are hiking slow...5-6 miles per day.....something tells me that you WILL catch up to us. I know we will eventually get our trail legs, but we are in no hurry....

[Roamin Biff]

I have a question on Winter hiking when temps drop below freezing. How do you keep your water from freezing while hiking?

Originally planning a January NOBO Start, I did a dry run of winter multi-day back-country hiking in Shenandoah in November and Mother Nature unexpectedly dropped 15 inches of snow on me. I had good gear and I definitely learned how to use it and survive, but the biggest thing that surprised me was that my water bladder system froze. I set up camp but the wood was too snowy to set up a fire. My camp stove fuel would burn hot enough to melt snow to drink and overnight I foolishly left my water system outside of my sleeping bag as it was an ice block. The next day it was even more of an ice block. Needless to say it was a long long struggle back to civilization and I learned a lot, but the biggest thing that scares me is dehydration. Sucking on snow and ice sickles can only go so far.

Any pointers on how to keep the water unfrozen? I'd prefer to never have to go through that again if at all possible.

[squeezebox]

I'm wondering how many Jan. & Feb. folks are gonna bring snowshoes? 5 lb wt. penalty is substantial, but the only other choice is post holeing

[Boots and Backpacks]

I have a question on Winter hiking when temps drop below freezing. How do you keep your water from freezing while hiking?

Originally planning a January NOBO Start, I did a dry run of winter multi-day back-country hiking in Shenandoah in November and Mother Nature unexpectedly dropped 15 inches of snow on me. I had good gear and I definitely learned how to use it and survive, but the biggest thing that surprised me was that my water bladder system froze. I set up camp but the wood was too snowy to set up a fire. My camp stove fuel would burn hot enough to melt snow to drink and overnight I foolishly left my water system outside of my sleeping bag as it was an ice block. The next day it was even more of an ice block. Needless to say it was a long long struggle back to civilization and I learned a lot, but the biggest thing that scares me is dehydration. Sucking on snow and ice sickles can only go so far.

Any pointers on how to keep the water unfrozen? I'd prefer to never have to go through that again if at all possible.

Your bladder isn't going to freeze during the day, but the once the tube leaves your pack it will. I've tried the insulator sleeves, and mouth piece covers with zero luck. At camp you can wrap the bladder in any clothing you're not wear, put it in your pack, or even sleep with it. I wouldn't bring a bladder on a winter hike just for that reason. We're using 40 Below insulators for our bottle, and you can also keep them in your pack. The closer they are to heat the better off you are. Getting your stove off the ground will give it better heating in snow. I use a piece of an old closed cell foam pad to put between my fuel canister and the ground. I had problems with it heating when it was cold out prior to doing that.

Another thing you can do is put your water bottle in a sock or two when you're hiking.

[Boots and Backpacks]

I'd rather post hole that lug around snow shoes. Not like the pace is going to be much faster either. Using snow shoes, and carrying a 35lb pack sucks. It'll be a slow day no matter how you look at it.

[Tipi Walter]

Never ever use a bladder system to store water in the winter. By bladder system I mean the port tubes like Platypus etc. I use two water containers on my winter trips---a 52 oz Nalgene tritan bottle and a Platypus 2.5 liter bladder. Bite valves and rubber tubes have no place on winter trips.


Here are my two jugs in action. The bladder is big enough that when it is full of water it will not freeze solid unless the temps drop radically to 10F or below. After it is full I bring it into the tent and wrap it in my down parka which keeps it thawed thru the night even at low temps.

When it's really cold, like subzero numbers at -10F or below, I fill my cook pot with fresh water and let it sit in the tent vestibule overnight. My bottle and bladder are empty. When I wake up in the morning I immediately put the frozen pot of water on the stove and cook up morning tea and have hot water for the day's hiking. The bigger the pot the better, like a 2 liter pot. Also excellent for melting snow.

Some people like to take their water jugs and bury them upside down in the snow. I've never done this and instead do insulating things for them inside my tent, like putting the full Nalgene bottle in a boot and covering the boot and bottle with my down parka. So it helps to have a big warm down parka for winter backpacking as it is not worn while inside the bag and can be used as an insulating wrap for your water thru the night.

[Connie]

I have never had neoprene keep water from freezing.

I put my water supply in smaller containers, inside the sleeping bag. If one freezes to the extent I can't get water out of the container, I have the other water container.

I have heard some people heat the water, first.

[Oslohiker]

Severe cold is one thing and a backpacker willing to carry the gear (geese, bag, pad etc) can get thru a "coldstorm" even down to -10F. Deep snow on mountain ridges and getting thru leaning collapsed rhododendron is another thing entirely and it is what usually causes most backpackers to bail into the closest town.

I call it being "land locked" when you're camping on top of a 4,000 or 5,000 foot ridge after an all-night snowstorm with 2 feet of the white stuff. Where are you now? You're locked inside Miss Nature's deep freeze whereby going in any direction is a tough slog requiring herculean effort. Postholing in 2-3 feet of snow is exquisitely demented and I feel lucky to go 3 or 4 miles in the stuff, and then needing my snow shovel if I plan on staying on the ridge to make another night's camp. I like to dig out to the ground for my tent.

The AT is known as the Green Tunnel and here the other big problem comes with a heavy new snow---Snowdowns. The green tunnel collapses on itself with heavy snow and you have a 3 feet high trail tunnel to get thru which must be done on your hands and knees with a pack on your back. What fun. Wear your rain jacket otherwise all the snow will fall down your neck. And prepare to break a sweat. And practice your swear words at home now as you'll be using them soon enough.

Another phenom happens for winter backpacking---You get caught in a nasty winter storm and lose hope that it will ever end. You set up your tent as the temps drop to Zero and the tent gets set in concrete and 2 feet of snow falls and you wake up to the bleak prospect of going no where this day. Here is where it becomes a mental game as you need to sit put and zero out a couple days until conditions change for the better and you can move. The bleak "all is lost!" mindset is what causes most backpackers to bail off the trail and do everything possible to get into a town. DON'T DO IT!

Have you ever considered taking skies with you?

The challenging spots: How dangerous are they? How many are they? Where are they? Can they be conquered with any equipment when the conditions are at the worst or do you just have to wait it out?

[Oslohiker]

Nothing worse than having to put on frozen boots in morning after you break them free from the ground. The first mile is like walking on a 2x4 until the thaw out.

You bring a warm enough sleeping bag and keep the boots inside it during the night (after removing the snow and ice). They will be dry and warm in the morning.

[Boots and Backpacks]

You bring a warm enough sleeping bag and keep the boots inside it during the night (after removing the snow and ice). They will be dry and warm in the morning.

What about getting the sleeping bag wet/damp? Or would they both be completely dry by morning?

I guess it really depends on the situation, an dhow wet they are.

[BaxterBear]

Please do not start Jan 1st unless you have extensive winter hiking experience. Trust me on this, do not ruin the dream you have.

[Tipi Walter]

Have you ever considered taking skies with you?

The challenging spots: How dangerous are they? How many are they? Where are they? Can they be conquered with any equipment when the conditions are at the worst or do you just have to wait it out?

Never used skis or snowshoes in the Southeast Mountains, although many people like to do cross country skiing on dayhikes. Skis would not work on the trails I hike---microspikes yes, not skis. Why? Because the trails are just too rugged, too vertical, too rocky, too winding, too steep. You go up on a 3,000 foot climb, you descend on a 3,000 foot drop. In the ice and snow microspikes are mandatory.

Snowshoes?? Sure, they may help in 2-3 feet of snow on the ridges. Or maybe not. Wearing a 75 lb pack with snowshoes in deep snow on these mountain trails could be just as bad as not having snowshoes. Postholing is gonna happen one way or the other. I have never seen any backpacker in the Southeast mountains wearing snowshoes. We just don't carry them.

We do posthole and battle thru snowdowns and collapsed snow-loaded brush. We don't have to wait it out but then we won't be going far but a mile further up the trail is better than sitting put for it all to melt. If a person chooses to pack up and move in deep snow he won't get far and must be prepared to shovel out a next campsite for his tent and be happy to put in 3 or 4 miles a day. Or maybe just 1 mile a day. At least you're moving. To me it's better than sitting put for 4 days, although on one trip I got hit by a series of 3 major snowstorms and spent 4 days on an open bald at 5,300 feet and went 2 miles and spent another 7 days in a high gap at 4,500 feet. Talk about cabin fever.

The story of Steven Ainsworth should be in everyone's mind. He was caught in a freak 3 foot snowstorm in the Smokies and was inside his tent with no visible trail and surrounded by collapsed brush. Solution? Sit put for 7 or 8 days and wait it out. His solution? Dial up 911 rescue and get helicoptered out. See---


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012...have-heard-of/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2285792.html

And last year during the polar vortex we had this fun event---

http://www.smokymountainnews.com/new...to-save-hikers

http://hikinginthesmokys.blogspot.co...eat-smoky.html

And back in 2005 this report---
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/arch...hp/t-7207.html

[Tipi Walter]

What about getting the sleeping bag wet/damp? Or would they both be completely dry by morning?

I guess it really depends on the situation, an dhow wet they are.

I never put anything inside my bag except your's truly---no water bottles (they could leak and a dry down bag is my last line of survival), no boots, no extra clothing etc. My dirty muddy wet boots are opened up properly as described and must fend for themselves w/o any warmth from me. See ya in the morning guys.

[Tipi Walter]

Please do not start Jan 1st unless you have extensive winter hiking experience. Trust me on this, do not ruin the dream you have.

I believe Boots and Backpacks can handle it as they seem to have alot of experience. What's the worse that can happen? -10F storm with 2 feet of snow---so they get to the closest road and hike/hitch into a town. Simple. Stubbornly sticking with a route and staying put for the duration is the option for those of us who are crazy. Do not ruin the dream by going into a town!!

[Boots and Backpacks]

Please do not start Jan 1st unless you have extensive winter hiking experience. Trust me on this, do not ruin the dream you have.

Don't worry about us! We're prepared as we can, we're know what could happen, and we're not afraid to stay put to wait it out.

I believe Boots and Backpacks can handle it as they seem to have alot of experience. What's the worse that can happen? -10F storm with 2 feet of snow---so they get to the closest road and hike/hitch into a town. Simple. Stubbornly sticking with a route and staying put for the duration is the option for those of us who are crazy. Do not ruin the dream by going into a town!!

It's going to be trying on us, but we'll be ready for it. Who likes hiking in the spring and summer anyways? Too many damn bugs out then!