Seems to be so! At least ignorance, by itself, is an easy fix :POriginally Posted by swjohnsey
Damn!! I wish my dog was 1/10 like that!!! What's your address I'll ship mine to you!!! Thanks for the great info! Don't pay attention to the anti dog bs...As a dog owner and handler I have to accept that I do not have control over other people, their pets, wild animals, and even the environment around me. However it is my responsibility to control my own dog and myself, the only two things I have full control over. The best way to assure control over a dog is through training. Lots… and LOTS of training. The goal of this thread is to compile a large variety of specific commands and behaviors that will help us to maintain control over our animals, protect them from those around them, and protect others from our dogs.
Are all of these commands necessary? No. Yet from my experience it is safer to have a larger pool of commands with which to communicate effectively with my dog(s). I’ve yet to meet a highly trained and socialized dog that turned out to be a PITA.
Please take from this what you like.
Recall: Come when called.
Climb: Climb and stay on object indicated. Benches, logs, stumps, boulders, and anything else elevated above the ground. This is a much more relaxed version of “stay” as they do not have to hold any formal position. It is also easier to enforce than the Place command listed below.
Place: To go to an indicated location and remain there, some trainers also include an automatic down in this command. Crate, tent, and mat are some forms of Place.
Sit/Stay: To sit and remain seated until released or given another command that would force the dog to break.
Down/Stay: To down and remain fully down until released or given another command that would force the dog to break.
Stand/Stay: To stand, on all four legs, and remain standing until released or given another command that would force the dog to break.
Release: Clear word or noise that tells the dog they are allowed to move from their stay, climb, place, and heel.
Potty: To potty on command.
Retrieve: Go to indicated item, pick it up, bring it to trainer, and keep holding it until told to drop it.
Orientation Specific: Heel – sit directly to my left side in heeling position, Front – sit directly in front of me and facing me, Board – sit directly to my right side, Behind – sit directly behind me and facing me, and Park – sit between my legs facing the same direction I am.
Forward: To walk straight out in front of me, even if tension is placed on the leash.
Back: To walk backwards, even if tension is placed on the leash.
Heel: To remain in heeling position, directly to my left, and at attention whether I’m standing still or moving.
Send Out: To run out in the direction indicated.
Obstacle Management: Around – “Around Left” and “Around Right”, Over - to go over the obstacle, Under – to go under the obstacle, Burst – to go through the obstacle.
Drop It: To immediately drop the item in your mouth.
Leave It: To leave/ignore the object of your interest.
Guard: Another version of “stay”, though specific to an object or person that must remain where it is, like a backpack.
Direction Specific: Verbal indications of direction like “Gee”, “Haw”, “Left”, or “Right”.
Shake: To shake off any water, mud, or dirt.
911: Specific to the trainer, the dog, and the situation. Either barking on command to alert nearby individuals like a whistle would or sending the dog off to retrieve help.
Quiet: To stop barking or whining.
Verbal Correction: Stop what you’re doing and/or don’t even think about it, basically. “No”, “Eh Eh”, and “Phooey” are commonly used.
The list above includes many Commanded Exercises. Yet there are also many behaviors that we train into our dogs that we want to become Automatic Exercises, meaning the dog will perform them without being told to do so. Examples include:
- When I sit at a table, desk, or tree stump he must do everything in his power to get under it if possible and remain close to my legs in a down position. This is to prevent him from being stepped on by others, tripped over, and so he isn’t off doing whatever he likes.
- When he is working, meaning not sleeping or playing, he must always be paying attention to me. Eye contact is constantly rewarded throughout his life to encourage this. Even now as I type this my dog is at my feet staring up at me.
- NEVER eating anything off the ground. Period. NEVER eating from a plate or bowl unless I specifically release him towards one, like his dog bowl. NEVER taking food from strangers, only myself. This is vitally important. My dog shall not beg, ever, and will avoid eating random things that I have no control over. Case in point… recently we’ve had dogs being poisoned at a nearby park by someone that left poisoned treats on the ground. Yes, some people hate dogs and life that much. Like I said before we can’t always control the environment but we CAN and should control our dogs.
I could continue with automatic exercises but I think you have the idea.
Let us not forget the importance of Socialization and Habituation too. You may have a high flying, superbly obedient, circus dog at home… but if you take your dog out (and I really hope you do) you must be able to have the same level of obedience when you’re out and about. This means socializing them to as many types of people as you can: Children, teens, adults, and the elderly. People of all sizes and colors. Beards, hoods, dreadlocks, afros, Halloween costumes, etc etc. Socializing them with animals, not just dogs. Equally important is getting your dog accustomed to being around certain stimuli that may be overwhelming and to remain calm regardless. Traffic, thunderstorms, fireworks, non-threatening wildlife, festivals, etc etc. It is important that my dog stay calm and focused regardless if a few squirrels are chucking things at him from a tree, a child runs up to him and grabs his tail, or if a helicopter is landing just yards away.
I hope this is helpful to some and I apologize in advance if there is already a thread like this one. Please feel free to add any commands and/or behaviors that I didn’t list that may be useful, especially for the daily lives of those in the hiking community.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for all of the info. Most people who own dogs are just regular pet owners, and not dog trainers. I don't think a person has to have the "perfectly" trained dog to be allowed to bring it on a trail. A simple leash combined with basic respect and courtesy on the part of the dog owner will go a very long way. Is my dog perfectly trained? No. I do bring him with me on trails though. He is trained very well on leash, and will sit and stay when I tell him to so others may pass us. He is respectful and only sniffs their scent after they have passed There are times when I make the decision to briefly let him off leash if there is some hand over hand climbing involved, because he needs to get a faster start and not have the leash pull him off balance. I tell him to stay, then leash him back up when we are both at the top. He knows basic commands, but honestly, he is my pet and since I don't need him to be a working dog I don't care if him knows more than that.
For those that think dogs don't "belong" on trail, I am sorry for whatever bad experiences you have had that make you feel that way. My dogs are a part of my family, and they enjoy hiking as much as I do. If they are well behaved (and I am responsible), I see no problem with me bringing them.
Also, I have no problem giving an off leash dog a command if their owner is not controlling them. You would be surprised how effective a firm voice and some body language is when it is coming from a stranger. Most dog owners will then decide to take control of their dog, and some are even offended that I would tell their dog what to do. I don't care, because it is people like that who give us responsible dog owners a bad rap.
Good points.....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't have a dog at the moment, because I enjoy hiking and don't have nearly the amount of free time that it would take to train a trail dog.
I love well-trained trail dogs. I meet some on the trail. In fact, I meet some incredible trail dogs - better hikers than me, and likely smarter. I'm not sure I can ever recall seeing one sleeping in a shelter.
I think perhaps the most incredible trail dogs that I've met were a pair of Border Collies who were being trained as search dogs. When I met them, their handlers were working with them on long-line rappel with water exit. Directing the enthusiasm of a Border Collie into a useful pursuit must be ... challenging.
I always know where I am. I'm right here.
Having grown up w/ Border Collies from an early age, they are truly remarkable Dogs. They have VERY strong work ethic, in my case, always working Cattle and Sheep. These days, my Great Pyrenees hold a special place. The Borders work, while the Pyrs guards...
Completely agree! Watching working dog trials of any sort is always wonderful for me. My favorites are obedience, tracking, and PSA.
Is training required? No. But I highly recommend it for the quality of life for the dog, your daughter, and the rest of the family. If you do look into training - PLEASE take some time to research the different types of training and consult the many different trainers in your area.
I get asked this quite a bit.Sorry but I don't train kids, even though many of the same principles apply.
I've also been asked to train birds, cats, and even had one lady ask if I could train her monkey. I declined them all... but REALLY wanted to try with the monkey.
Thanks. I'm glad you and the others like it. Just keep in mind that you will always be "working on" something. Training is for life.
If you live in Western NC, I can help you. Board & Train is a service I offer.
However there are a LOT of great trainers and I'm sure you have at least one in your area.
If you want a well trained dog, know that it is achievable for everyone.
Yes, I wouldn't be able to survive at my trade if most dog owners were also trainers.I'm giving free advice here in this thread for those that may want it, in the hope that it may improve hiker dog lives in even a small way. There is no such thing as a perfectly trained dog. It is something that we can strive for... but will never truly be attained. I grew up with pet dogs as a child and loved them as such. But now knowing what I do, experiencing how life is with dogs trained to a "working" level, I don't think I would ever go back to owning a dog trained to just a "pet" level. That is just my personal opinion. A high level of training is not a requirement but rather a boon.
You are very right about using tone and nonverbal language to communicate with dogs. Knowing how to read canine body language and understanding how to respond to it is a very useful tool.
I have to weigh in on this. I agree with the bad rap comment here, 1 bad experience with a dog will likely tarnish ones future experiences with all dogs for a long time.
Most of the time, for me, dogs are not an issue beyond some slobber and muddy paws. I love dogs, have had several and understand what "control" means. Dogtra is perhaps one of the best advocates of controlled canines I have seen in a very long time. Articulate, specific in his reasoning and points, and likely has little patience for uncontrolled dogs who are acting out in an aggressive or attack posture. I also understand the family dog in a wilderness environment will act and behave differently to things than it does from the living room. But, I have seen some rather nasty bites over the years from people who tried to defuse a dog in an aggressive posture that was not properly controlled. Dog bites can be quite serious. From ending a hike right there, to requiring emergency medical treatment to rabies shots if the dog cannot be found and tested. I have no need or desire to experience any of those things.
As a result, when out in a wilderness area and come across a growling dog in front of me with its tail down and ears back in aggressive posture, I have a fairly predictable reaction, its called a defensive posture. Now, I understand the dog is mostly reacting to my appearance, I am a fairly good sized threat at 6' and 200 lbs, thudding along at a brisk pace with heavy boots, poles, hat, and sunglasses. I'm sure my appearance alarms the dog, however, the dog is not my concern at that point. There is no amount of "Don't worry, he's friendly" yelled from down the trail that will convince me that is true when a dog is in that posture. I have seen too many incidents occur to know its a fair bet that owner isn't quite sure what their dog will do in that situation, I certainly have no idea, and the dog isn't saying. Its body language is all I have to gauge what its intentions are.
In these fairly rare situations, I point a pole at the dog as a warning. I don't stop, I don't make nice, I don't try to give dog commands because likely it does not know them, I never try to pat any dog I run across on the trail regardless of circumstance ever (especially this scenario), I don't do anything but keep moving and limit my exposure to a situation I really do not want to control myself. Its completely up to the dog and its owner what happens next. Usually it all ends without incident with the owner trying to scold me about pointing a pole at the family hound, which is their 1st Amendment right to support their irresponsibility with stupidity.
Though folks have a right to trail with their dogs, I have a right to safe passage. If the dog is menacing, barking, growling, head and tail down, hackles up, I will take measures to protect myself since the owner is not protecting their me OR their dog. Fortunately I have only had to prod a couple of dogs with the business end of the pole when they opted to get too close and tried to bite or snapped at the back of my legs. Those pole ends are just pointy enough to provide the proper amount of convincing I am not to be messed with, nor will I taste good. Its unfortunate these owners put their dogs in that position.
Again, I've no issue with dogs on a trail, especially those well controlled off a leash who pass by. I am tolerant (to a degree) of muddy paws on shins in an effort to be friendly and all the other antics that dogs may engage to capture your attention. There have been some very unfortunate end to uncontrolled dogs in the forest resulting in their demise their owners allowed to happen. Be kind to your dog and don't allow that situation to happen is all most of the rest of us ask. And please, if it poops on the treadway, won't you be kind and remove it for the rest of us?
---------------------------------------------
Last edited by CrumbSnatcher; 08-26-2014 at 17:37.
I only ended up with my dog to get it away from where it was living ( small crate ) - I had tried to give him away for almost a year. Long story short I still have him 3 years later and he has matured to the most wonderful hiker and companion and wouldn't take a million bucks today for him.
I never really trained him he just learned things on his own, He has about 50 nights on the trail without any problems, We just returned from a great 3 day trip.
It's my opinion that most owners can not, or will never train anywhere near the level you describe. And that's OK. I feel that if owners, especially hiking dog owners, train just one command ever, it should be a recall. To read why, check out an old post titled "Have a Solid Recall". I find it ironic that so many people have such strong opinions about dogs on the trail, yet that post got so few replies.
If you're doing serious training at the level Dogtra describes, then it's good to have a few hand signals at your disposal; recall, down/stay, sit/stay, stand/stay, heel, and possibly climb are the most useful. Being able to command the basics silently is convenient.
I still say dogs don't belong in shelters, but as I've observed, I've never seen a well-trained one there. I don't know many dog handlers who would want to have a dog among strangers while the handler is asleep. It's just as much about trusting the strangers as trusting the dog.
I always know where I am. I'm right here.
Even though I don't currently own a dog, I do generally enjoy their presence on the trail. Thanks for being a responsible owner to your pet, and making it a joy for others to be around.Thank you, Dogwood, you made me smile.
Dog training is what I do for a living.
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.
What an excellent thread (with the exception of the post others have already addressed).
Dogs generally want to please. They are mostly well motivated by treats and by praise. Of course there are some who just inexplicably seem to understand what ever you want (like my beloved Peterdog of the "Cherish every moment" thread).
i might just echo / stress the effecacy of "positive" reinforcement. I have a lifetime of experience with dogs, and can definitively say that negative reinforcement does not work. Some holding themselves up as "trainers" still hold to the punishment methods, but it shuts the dog down.... It is very sad to me to hear folks yelling at their dogs, or doing things like jerking their leash or worse....
A bag of small treats, a clicker, and lavish praise will go much farther then discipline in getting your dog to cooperate.
The list of commands in the OP is good, but I find "Come" "sit" "down" and "leave it" to be a good place to start with most dogs. Excellent videos on YouTube, might look for "clicker training" to get started.
great thread!
Last edited by Sailing_Faith; 09-25-2014 at 12:14.
Want a 'Hike Your Own Hike' sticker?... => send me a message <=
Favorite quote;
Thank you for your praise of this thread, Sailing Faith. That being said I hope you don't think any less of it when I say I must respectfully disagree with some of what you had to say.
While +R is by far the most frequently used and most rewarding for both trainer and canine, it shouldn't be the only side of Operant Conditioning that trainers use. It is a mistake to do so. It is the equivalent of training a new employee by only ever telling them what they're doing right. It may not work out so well.
The key is to have a clear understanding of all aspects of training, how they should be used, when they should be used, on what dogs they are best suited for, etc. Every dog is different. So to believe all dogs can be taught with "Purely Positive" or +R techniques alone is wrong and from my own experience can result in an injustice committed against some dogs and their owners. I've seen dogs that have been trained that way end up in shelters more times than I care to say, other times they have ended up dead. Know that I started out as a "Purely Positive" trainer at the beginning of my career. However it became clear how lacking the training was, how many people I couldn't help, and how many dogs couldn't be helped that way.
So I expanded my training greatly. I pushed beyond my fears of "negative" or "punishment" based techniques. What I found forever changed my training style. I am now a very balanced trainer able to use many different tools and techniques to get the desired outcome. Now ALL of my clients and my colleagues' clients are thrilled. You are correct in one thing though... Using "punishment methods" CAN shut a dog down. When used incorrectly and inappropriately.
Some holding themselves up as "trainers"
I do take offense to this even though it is a familiar contemptuous stance that most +R trainers have against trainers like myself. It has always fascinated me how those that preach "Purely Positive" are the most negative of people. Something to think on.
As for learning more from YouTube. For those interested I will link an excellent video that clearly explains all four quadrants of Operant Conditioning, shows the viewers how each can be misused, and ends with how they should be used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xaM6m8NpAQ
Sounds like you treat your dog as a slave! Glad I am not your husband!
Did you have to post your completely unconstructive and intentionally hurtful comment?
When done properly and after a dog has a strong base of positive training, negative correction is a highly effective way to reinforce and fine tune a dog's training. I think that much of the problem is that lay people don't understand the difference between "correction" and "punishment," and those who don't know the difference should get the help of an experienced trainer.
I totally agree. It drives me nuts when people walking around with their submissive goldens or Bernese mountain dogs which they've owned since they were weaned try to tell me that positive reinforcement only training is the inly way to train every dog. I'd love to see them get a hunting or protection breed dog working effectively off leash and in their element with +R only training.Some holding themselves up as "trainers"
I do take offense to this even though it is a familiar contemptuous stance that most +R trainers have against trainers like myself. It has always fascinated me how those that preach "Purely Positive" are the most negative of people. Something to think on.
My current dog is a headstrong former hunting dog (and I'm her third owner) she is sharp, dominant, gets "birdie" when she finds a scent, and is wonderfully and comprehensively trained by a professional who also trained us how to properly work with her both on leash and off leash. She is off leash with us either at the horsebarn or on local trails 4-5 days a week. We are able to reliably trust her in these situations because we have the tools to correct her when she's in the middle of doing something foolish (like standing under a horse), because of this she his able to have a far more fullfilling and adventerous life than she would if she were less solidly trained.
...And before anyone asks, yes we still keep her leashed on the A.T., it's just too busy a path and while I do trust her, I don't trust the other fools that we meet out there 100%.
Last edited by Sarcasm the elf; 09-26-2014 at 07:22.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
Swisscross-- I feel sorry for your untrained dog ,and your disrespect for your husband.
i agree with this 100%. Kaia stays on leash to protect her. it's not a punishment.
I'm so confused, I'm not sure if I lost my horse or found a rope.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
