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  1. #1
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    Default Historical pack weights ?

    With all the recent discussion and fervor regarding pack weights and cutting weights, I'd like to start a thread requesting any information on the old timers pack contents and weights.

    Think about it, someone down the road is going to read history accounts and laugh at our attempts to have a sub 30 lb pack. (You gram weenies don't count, I'm keeping MY toothbrush!) As they pack a sub 30 ounce pack on their thru hikes.

    Somebody else will have to start. I am the current high bidder on a ghost whisperer puffy and must pay attention and I'm looking for the hacksaw in order to trim another 1/4 inch off that infernally heavy tooth brush handle!

    Rolex

  2. #2
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    Tipi will weigh in shortly, I'm sure. I can tell you for sure that I was carrying 50+ pounds on my back routinely when I first started backpacking in the White Mountains. These were mostly weekend hikes with my buddies. We had loads of fun but usually didn't make lots of miles. Climb some mountain, find a camp, have fun at camp, descend and drive home the next day.

    I'm guessing most thru-hikers in 1990 started with 50 lb. packs. Those who were still hiking a month later had trimmed that weight down to 35-40 or so. A handful of hikers were onto the ultralight thing, but they were a distinct minority.

  3. #3
    Registered User 4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Who you calling an old-timer? I remember anywhere between 35 to 55 lbs being pretty typical pack weight back in the 1970's depending upon season and length of hike/section. Most thru-hikers probably left Springer in the 45 to 55 lb range back then with 4 to 5 days food. We wore big ass 3 lb. boots too (Continental Tyroleans, Limmers, etc.), had our Gerry down vests - and even some cotton clothes (surely we should have died . Sleeping bags were 3 to 4 pounds (even for most down bags), 5 +lbs if synthetic, Kelty or Camp Trails packs were 4 to 6 lbs, your Eureka timberline tent was 5 to 6 lbs, Svea 123 or Optimus 8R stove was another 3 lbs with an extra fuel bottle. Damn near everything has gotten much lighter, in many cases 1/2 of what it once was on average - except food and water. A few things haven't changed - wool socks, watch cap, etc., but most of it got a lot lighter. We all read and tried to learn from Colin Fletcher, Ray Jardine, Ed Garvey, et al. And the reduction in weight mindset that caught on drove the industry to design lighter and better performing equipment. Some of it was, and is, too extreme to be practical - does a toothbrush handle really weigh that much to compromise properly brushing one's teeth? But I must admit that I really enjoy carrying less than 20 lbs including food and water for a weekend hike these days.
    "That's the thing about possum innards - they's just as good the second day." - Jed Clampett

  4. #4

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    It was what it was and it was heavy, but I would guess about 30.

    Camptrails frame pack - 7 pounds empty
    Hollow fill sleeping bag - 4 pounds
    Seva white gas stove - 1.5 pounds
    White gas and bottle - 1 pound
    Stainless steel pot - 0.5 pound
    tent - 5 pounds
    leather hiking boots - 4 pounds

    Hum, less the boots that's only 18 pounds. Maybe a couple of pounds of clothes and another pound of odds and ends. That's still just over 20 pounds. Why did it seem so heavy?
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  5. #5
    Registered User russb's Avatar
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    I think pack weights are cyclical. Many will recall the 60s-70's with heavy packs, but that isn't all that far back. Plus, when we carried those heavier packs it was because we didn't know any better. We all learned to lighten our load even then. The real old-timers had very light packs, at least those with experience. They were the old time woodsmen like Nessmuk and Kephart. Lightweight isn't a new thing. As Nessmuk wrote, "Go light; the lighter the better, so that you have the simplest material for health comfort and enjoyment"

  6. #6

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    When I was a kid ( late 70's ) and hiking with my father, I remember him telling me one time that his pack ( Kelty Tioga External frame ) weighed 75lbs, it was all his gear, he always made me carry my full load, my pack weighed 45-55lbs, and yes I still got all his gear, even the gear he had in the 60's and 70's.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    Who you calling an old-timer? I remember anywhere between 35 to 55 lbs being pretty typical pack weight back in the 1970's depending upon season and length of hike/section. Most thru-hikers probably left Springer in the 45 to 55 lb range back then with 4 to 5 days food. We wore big ass 3 lb. boots too (Continental Tyroleans, Limmers, etc.), had our Gerry down vests - and even some cotton clothes (surely we should have died . Sleeping bags were 3 to 4 pounds (even for most down bags), 5 +lbs if synthetic, Kelty or Camp Trails packs were 4 to 6 lbs, your Eureka timberline tent was 5 to 6 lbs, Svea 123 or Optimus 8R stove was another 3 lbs with an extra fuel bottle. Damn near everything has gotten much lighter, in many cases 1/2 of what it once was on average - except food and water. A few things haven't changed - wool socks, watch cap, etc., but most of it got a lot lighter. We all read and tried to learn from Colin Fletcher, Ray Jardine, Ed Garvey, et al. And the reduction in weight mindset that caught on drove the industry to design lighter and better performing equipment. Some of it was, and is, too extreme to be practical - does a toothbrush handle really weigh that much to compromise properly brushing one's teeth? But I must admit that I really enjoy carrying less than 20 lbs including food and water for a weekend hike these days.
    I like this post. The only reason I would cut a toothbrush handle would be for space. But, I don't have to. I have a shortened one from jail. (just kidding) When we got back from hiking in the "olden days" and started unpacking that "I didn't even touch this I ain't taking it no more" mentality kicked in real quick. Especially if it was a long last day.
    "Hiking is as close to God as you can get without going to Church." - BobbyJo Sargent aka milkman Sometimes it's nice to take a long walk in THE FOG.

  8. #8
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    Mainstream equipment did not neccessarily have to be heavy. A Kelty external frame weighed sub-4lbs. A down sleeping bag weighed less than 3. A pad (if used) was foam.

    As Rafe said, most peopel did not go ultralight, but I always dig this chestnut up as an example:

    In my collection, is the classic Rodale set of "Hiking the Appalachian Trail" (2 volumes). The books have the accounts of the early pioneers of the AT. A few even have their gear listed. One gentleman, Andrew J Giger, did a 3 month (!) thru-hike in 1969 with 14 lbs of gear.
    His uber-detailed gear list included a camera, a SVEA white gas stove, a sleeping bag and a poncho that doubled as shelter.

    The Rodale books are great for seeing what people carried in the day. Perhaps because people were out longer and had less logistic supports vs today's thru-hikers, but what strikes me isn't so much how much heavier their gear was but how much MORE of it people carried.

    Last edited by Mags; 10-25-2014 at 12:39.
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  9. #9
    LT '79; AT '73-'14 in sections; Donating Member Kerosene's Avatar
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    Looking back at my hiking journals from the 70's, it looks as if I was carrying about 35 pounds with 3-4 days of supplies in either a Sears external frame succeeded by a Kelty Tioga. I know that I carried an Optimus 8R white gas stove and a 5-pound tent. When I hiked with my mom or girlfriend my pack weight would increase to the 45-50 pound range as a way to slow me down and keep their pack weights in the 18-24 pound range. Today, for comparable 7+ day hikes, my pack would be about 21 pounds in summer with 3 days of supplies, and 24-26 in shoulder seasons.
    GA←↕→ME: 1973 to 2014

  10. #10

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    Kelty Super Tioga External Frame Backpack
    was ,is, and always will be the best pack for thruhiking the Appalachian Trail :-)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    Who you calling an old-timer? I remember anywhere between 35 to 55 lbs being pretty typical pack weight back in the 1970's depending upon season and length of hike/section. Most thru-hikers probably left Springer in the 45 to 55 lb range back then with 4 to 5 days food. We wore big ass 3 lb. boots too (Continental Tyroleans, Limmers, etc.), had our Gerry down vests - and even some cotton clothes (surely we should have died . Sleeping bags were 3 to 4 pounds (even for most down bags), 5 +lbs if synthetic, Kelty or Camp Trails packs were 4 to 6 lbs, your Eureka timberline tent was 5 to 6 lbs, Svea 123 or Optimus 8R stove was another 3 lbs with an extra fuel bottle. Damn near everything has gotten much lighter, in many cases 1/2 of what it once was on average - except food and water. A few things haven't changed - wool socks, watch cap, etc., but most of it got a lot lighter. We all read and tried to learn from Colin Fletcher, Ray Jardine, Ed Garvey, et al. And the reduction in weight mindset that caught on drove the industry to design lighter and better performing equipment. Some of it was, and is, too extreme to be practical - does a toothbrush handle really weigh that much to compromise properly brushing one's teeth? But I must admit that I really enjoy carrying less than 20 lbs including food and water for a weekend hike these days.
    Not so much you guys that went before us as "old timers" was meant.<laughing>
    The kind like from Lewis and Clark", Hudson bay trappers, prospectors, etc was what that was meant. But it is fun reading what was carried in the 70 s and 80s.

    I had an old army ALICE pack and two shelter halves for a long time in the late 70s as a high schooler. Also, a mess kit, and wood fire was the kitchen.
    Food on long weekends had a few potatoes to bake with tin foil I remember. Pork and beans in the cans were a staple also.

    Speaking of Colin Fletcher, I still carry a single walking stick to this day to ward off angry unicorns per his book!

  12. #12

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    Look up earl schaffers list. About 12 to 14 lbs if i recall. Even with the gear of the day. How about grandma gatewoods?

    It wasn't until hiking became popular and was marketed to the masses with lots of gadgets that packs got heavy.

  13. #13
    Registered User russb's Avatar
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    Rolex,

    As I mentioned earlier, the 60-70s were the heavyweight years, but it wasn't always heavy. It wasn't the gear was heavy, we carried way too much of it.

    I hinted a bit at the real old timers. They were lightweight back in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

    Nessmuk's kit was under 26 lbs and that included his canoe.
    Kephart's gear list was 18 lbs.
    He also gave comrades lists which were under 10lbs.

  14. #14
    Registered User soilman's Avatar
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    During our 1976 SOBO attempt, my brother and I routinely carried 40+ packs. When we left Monson we were both over 50 pounds. We typically carried 7-10 days of food. Also wore blue jeans. Made it to SW VA before we quit.
    More walking, less talking.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by russb View Post
    I think pack weights are cyclical. Many will recall the 60s-70's with heavy packs, but that isn't all that far back. Plus, when we carried those heavier packs it was because we didn't know any better. We all learned to lighten our load even then. The real old-timers had very light packs, at least those with experience. They were the old time woodsmen like Nessmuk and Kephart. Lightweight isn't a new thing. As Nessmuk wrote, "Go light; the lighter the better, so that you have the simplest material for health comfort and enjoyment"
    So true, the light weight theme has been going on a lonnnng time. Quote from Hareace Kephart circa 1910:
    “To equip a pedestrian with shelter, bedding, utensils, food, and other necessities, in a pack so light and small that he can carry it without overstrain, is really a fine art.” – HORACE KEPHART, Camping and Woodcraft, 1917

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    In the mid to late sixties, padded, wrap-around hip belts appeared. They made heavy packs reasonably comfortable to carry. They still had to be moved up hill (aka work).
    "It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss

  17. #17
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    John Muir was ascetically ultralight in the 1850s. As mentioned above, Grandma Gatewood traveled light one hundred years later with a shoulder bag containing a shower curtain, blanket, and rain coat.

    I'm just old enough to remember a time before you needed "gear" to go outside and do stuff. My older brothers would take me on overnighters with a blanket, a rain coat, a little food from the kitchen, and a few kitchen matches in my pocket. It's nostalgic for me to do that now.
    "Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning

  18. #18
    Registered User Damn Yankee's Avatar
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    Back in the eighties(when I was in good shape)myself and some buddies hiked up Mt. Washington. After stopping for the night, I lost my hiking boots to the camp fire and finished the summit and descent in Sorel winter boots carrying a 45 lb. plus pack. I don't recall why I packed my heavy winter boots, perhaps for camp shoes but, glad I did. From then on, hiking boots have never, ever gotten any where near the camp fire.

    "You will go out in joy and be led forth in peace;the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands."
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  19. #19
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    I still use Sorels for winter hiking in the Whites. But for that very reason, I don't expect to make big miles.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by garlic08 View Post
    John Muir was ascetically ultralight in the 1850s. As mentioned above, Grandma Gatewood traveled light one hundred years later with a shoulder bag containing a shower curtain, blanket, and rain coat.

    I'm just old enough to remember a time before you needed "gear" to go outside and do stuff. My older brothers would take me on overnighters with a blanket, a rain coat, a little food from the kitchen, and a few kitchen matches in my pocket. It's nostalgic for me to do that now.
    Dig it...now that I get.

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