First winter camp

[hikernutcasey]

So this Friday I'm heading up to Grandfather Mtn. to do an overnight. This will be my first winter overnight. I've done a couple of trips this time of year but at lower elevations so it was more like shoulder season camping. On top of Grandfather this won't be the case. They are calling for 3 to 6 inches of snow Wed. and Thursday and temps to be in the upper teens to low 20's Friday night. I've got my new microspikes and the cold weather gear packed and ready to go.

A couple of questions -

If the ground is frozen hard as a rock how do you get tent stakes in?

How do you dig a cathole in this scenario?

I only have a canister stove...what's your experience trying to cook with one in sub freezing temps?

Any other tips or tricks you learned the hard way?

Thanks

[saltysack]

Don't sweat it...
Cat hole with tent stakes or trekking pole..keep canister inside jacket...warm near your body lil while before use...start w new canister..bring nalgene boil water before bed put in sleeping bag...if using filter keep from freezing...have fun...winter is my favorite time to hike..


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[Tipi Walter]

Grandfather Mt is a tough winter destination as some of the trails thru there are very rugged. The high elevation of the mountain brings in some serious wind and cold and snow. Not too long ago it set a winter wind record at around 200mph. Microspikes are mandatory and I'd probably bring a small snow shovel for easier tent setup. A Voile XLM shovel is now part of my standard winter load as I'm tired of moving a foot of snow off the ground to put up my tunnel tent.

I use Easton nail-like stakes and they will pound into frozen ground if you use a rock and go slow.

Digging a cathole in frozen ground is impossible although with dead leaves on the ground atop a forest duff there's usually a way to scrape out a hole. I use the tip of my hiking pole for digging a cathole. In serious cold when everything's frozen solid you can take a dump and place a big rock over it. OR take a dump by the tent and let it freeze solid and either carry it out (no way) or fling it hard like a frisbee deep into a down hill clump of rhododendron. Way downhill. OR when you get to camp in the afternoon, dig a cathole right off before the night time freeze while the ground is somewhat thawed and use this hole when you need it later when the ground is frozen.

No canister stove for me, finicky at low temps. White gas all the way.

TIP: If the tent stakes freeze solid in the ground, hammer them in an inch and they will pull right out.

[saltysack]

Grandfather Mt is a tough winter destination as some of the trails thru there are very rugged. The high elevation of the mountain brings in some serious wind and cold and snow. Not too long ago it set a winter wind record at around 200mph. Microspikes are mandatory and I'd probably bring a small snow shovel for easier tent setup. A Voile XLM shovel is now part of my standard winter load as I'm tired of moving a foot of snow off the ground to put up my tunnel tent.

I use Easton nail-like stakes and they will pound into frozen ground if you use a rock and go slow.

Digging a cathole in frozen ground is impossible although with dead leaves on the ground atop a forest duff there's usually a way to scrape out a hole. I use the tip of my hiking pole for digging a cathole. In serious cold when everything's frozen solid you can take a dump and place a big rock over it. OR take a dump by the tent and let it freeze solid and either carry it out (no way) or fling it hard like a frisbee deep into a down hill clump of rhododendron. Way downhill. OR when you get to camp in the afternoon, dig a cathole right off before the night time freeze while the ground is somewhat thawed and use this hole when you need it later when the ground is frozen.

No canister stove for me, finicky at low temps. White gas all the way.

TIP: If the tent stakes freeze solid in the ground, hammer them in an inch and they will pull right out.

Holy sh.......200 mph...don't think my tent would last!!!


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[July]

Stool Thoughts:

As my female counterparts have imparted to me over the years, a woman gives birth to perpetuate life. As a Man we tend to brag on our dumps as this is what we impart If consuming a proper diet ones stool should come out solid with good consistency, in freezing weather as TiPi mentioned, said stool can be flung off the mountain in Olympic fashion into the rhotos. If eating and metabolizing poorly, upon dripping out, turn duff over and cover.

[saltysack]

Sounds like a new Olympic event is born! The SH.. Toss!!


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[Tipi Walter]

Sounds like a new Olympic event is born! The SH.. Toss!!


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I call it the Viscous Discus Event.

[colorado_rob]

We backpack all the time in winter in the Colorado high country, heading out this coming weekend in fact, but this time of year even at CO altitudes, I doubt the ground will be frozen quite solid yet, maybe a crust, but not solid until maybe January. Could be utterly different out east, of course, but we've had some bitter cold already ourselves. If you have a decent layer of snow already, that should keep the ground from being frozen solid yet (snow insulates well).

I find that canister stoves work OK for short trips, as mentioned, just be ready to warm the canister up a few times. Have you considered an inverted canister stove? Maybe yours is convertible to an inverted system? All you need are the proper hose fittings, with the canister off to the side and inverted. They work very well in the cold, as well as a white gas stove, though I think if you do any extended trips, more than a couple days, ultimately white gas stoves are more weight efficient.

[Second Hand]

If there is a lot of snow on the ground and you can't drive tent stakes into the ground, bring regular grocery bags. Fill them with snow and tie off the tents guy lines to the snow. A little trick I've used in New Hampshire and VT for several years now when the snow is to deep to properly guy out a tent.

Sleep with your water and have fun. I spent an unseasonably cold night on the side of Camels Hump last weekend. It was down to 12 degrees when I checked my thermometer at 8PM (8PM mine as well be midnight when the sun goes down 4:15). My only other advice is to bring a book, a warm meal, and enjoy yourself.

[illabelle]

I've been hoping someone would resurrect the poop thread. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...he-Poop-thread
It's always a fun subject.

[hikernutcasey]

I've been hoping someone would resurrect the poop thread. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...he-Poop-thread
It's always a fun subject.

Well, turning this into a discussion about poop wasn't my intention but I did get my questions answered and have been entertained at the same time

As far as Grandfather Mtn. goes, Tipi is right that it can get downright nasty up there. I live an hour away so it is like a personal playground for me. If you have never been up the Profile Trail and across the Grandfather Trail along the ridgeline you are missing out. Amazingly rugged hiking for our neck of the woods and view a plenty.

My plan is to go up and hike during the day with plans on staying overnight but will watch the weather and make sure it is safe to stay. If the wind is howling north of 40 or 50 I will probably take a rain check on the overnight.

[colorado_rob]

Speaking of poop, by the way, for short winter trips, like 1-2 nighters in winter, when the ground is frozen solid or the snow is too deep to even get down to the ground to dig a hole, we generally "blue bag" our poop (google it), meaning we let it freeze, put it into "blue bags" and carry it out. this is typically what is done on high, crowded big mountain climbs.

[saltysack]

Speaking of poop, by the way, for short winter trips, like 1-2 nighters in winter, when the ground is frozen solid or the snow is too deep to even get down to the ground to dig a hole, we generally "blue bag" our poop (google it), meaning we let it freeze, put it into "blue bags" and carry it out. this is typically what is done on high, crowded big mountain climbs.

I'm not a advocate of plastic bags as for the environmental impacts....but think I'd double bag that!!!!


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[colorado_rob]

I'm not a advocate of plastic bags as for the environmental impacts....but think I'd double bag that!!!!

some are TRIPLE, actually; there is one model that comes with a piece of waxed paper, with a target on it, yes this is true... you place the target on the ground, aim, "fire", sprinkle on some sort of deodorant (provided in kit, like kitty litter) pull the corners of the target in, place into a waxed paper "lunch sack" bag, then place that into a larger biodegradable plastic bag. the larger bag can accommodate about 2-3 poops. It's a very well worked out system, and again, a requirement some places, especially out in the dry west. Ranger stations generally provide these kits free at trailheads where they are required. Plus they have poop-kit disposal stations there as well. We save unused kits for out winter frozen-ground trips back in Colorado, where there are not any restrictions, but really, we don't want to leave human poop laying on top of frozen ground.

But again, I'd be surprised if your ground out there is frozen solid quite yet, especially if you've had some snow.

[saltysack]

I've heard of that on jmt...mt Whitney...hope to make that trip one day...I guess I'd better work on my aim! My wife might get pissed if I paint a target in the toilet!


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[Lyle]

It is helpful for any "tank on the bottom" stove, white gas or canister, to provide a small square of closed cell foam insulation under it. This insulation from the frozen ground works wonders keeping the stove happy during cooking.

[Tipi Walter]

The question really is---Who is a member of the exclusive In-Tent Squat and Release Club??

Membership comes in several steps---
** Being caught on a mountaintop in your tent in a hellish blizzard hellstorm.
** Very low temps with a face-eating wind and spindrift.
** Feeling the first foot kicks of a baby turtlehead inside the Man-Colon.
** Needing to go outside to dig a cathole and set up a birthing station but cannot.
** ERGO squatting inside the tent and hovering over a couple paper towels or book pages or anything available.
** Birthing said Young William atop whatever you can find.
** Balling up and placing wad outside tent door to freeze overnight.
** Have a nice day.

You are now a qualified member of the Squat Club.

COMPLICATIONS
** Nutrient cord gets wrapped around turtlehead requiring an emergency Fecal-Breech Birth. Not good.
** Excessive pushing results in nothing happening ergo a camp bowsaw C-section.
** Needing but not having betadine for a complete post-birth rubdown.
** The Turd Itself speaking in tongues, or calling your name.
** A small monkey-hand coming out of the Turd and tripping you up as you walk away from the cathole.
ETC

[Kerosene]

Tipi, you've obviously spent a lot of time thinking about this while cooped up in your tent those long winter nights!

[Feral Bill]

Bring plenty of dry socks.

[Tipi Walter]

Tipi, you've obviously spent a lot of time thinking about this while cooped up in your tent those long winter nights!

It's just the tip of the iceberg.