Baxter State Park AT concerns - Wow

[Speakeasy TN]

There is no way for most hikers to even know there is a problem, they dont read here.
The governing body, ATC, must be involved to inform them their behavior is a problem.

Muddy I understand where you are coming from but how many hikers on the trail are ATC members? Far scarcer are ATC staff. WE are the problem and the solution. The ATC is not in charge of enforcement. To keep to this thread. A kiosk is at the park boundary with the park rules being handed out by a paid employee who is there so you can't say "I didn't know". They are spending money to spoon-feed the rules to AT hikers. There's not a lot of upside for BSP to have the terminus there. Big K may be a better hike, more in line with their mandate anyway, without the sign and the celebrations.

I can't imagine any other hike besides a traditional NOBO to Katahdin being as fulfilling but we may lose that opportunity.

[jimyjam]

I have dreamed of thru hiking the AT for years. I've been saving my money and collecting the necessary gear for the past few years and I will begin my journey the end of March 2016! It hope the expected over crowdedness and hype the new movies are predicting to bring is just that...a hype! It is quite a commitment to plan and travel to the trail to even start! I hope the trail towns and rangers do not become callus! I am looking very forward to the challenge and the experiences with the trail community! Human sense is always better than government, laws and regulations! Much more fun for everyone concerned!


Life is full of ups and downs! Hike on!

[MuddyWaters]

Muddy I understand where you are coming from but how many hikers on the trail are ATC members? Far scarcer are ATC staff. WE are the problem and the solution. The ATC is not in charge of enforcement. To keep to this thread. A kiosk is at the park boundary with the park rules being handed out by a paid employee who is there so you can't say "I didn't know". They are spending money to spoon-feed the rules to AT hikers. There's not a lot of upside for BSP to have the terminus there. Big K may be a better hike, more in line with their mandate anyway, without the sign and the celebrations.

I can't imagine any other hike besides a traditional NOBO to Katahdin being as fulfilling but we may lose that opportunity.

If BSPs approach alone worked, we wouldnt be having this discussion.

You dont need to be a member of the ATC to read a notice posted in shelters from GA to ME.

When everyone knows whats expected, and the possible repercussions, then peer pressure might straighten out the bad apples.

[semicolon]

Don’t be “That Guy”

“That Guy” thinks the fire ring is a trash can.
Camp fires are great. What a wonderful setting for conversation and comradery. Let’s not fill the fire ring with stuff nobody wants to smell, or stuff that would not burn in a crematorium furnace. Burning wood is good, burning trash is bad… Simple.

“That Guy” doesn’t know how to poop in the woods.
When you are headed into the wilderness, you are faced with the biological necessity to defecate. Plan on doing it right. That means, burying it six inches deep. Mix it up with the dirt and include the used TP. And, pack out the baby wipes please.Nobody wants to see that, uh…Stuff.

“That Guy” is on a 6 month party.
Hiking is hard. We all like to unwind with friends who shared a hard day on the trail. Some of us like a few beers in town to celebrate and relax. A six-pack and jello-shots are best left for spring break in Daytona Beach. And, last time we checked, the AT does not run through Colorado, so burn the spliffs in your tent.

“That Guy” thinks he is above the rules.
Laws exist in a civilized society to protect people’s rights from those who would take advantage of those rights. Business owners should not have to suffer inconvenience or monetary losses because someone thinks they owe them something. Six in a double room… really?

“That Guy” wants to “Stick it to the Man”.
The Man, which many of us complain about, is the same authority that you and I created through a long public process (OK, many of us were not born when this process happened). Just because you did not get involved in making those laws, does not entitle you to break them. And more importantly, just because you don’t agree with the law, you have no right to treat these public servants with disrespect. If you want to change the laws, get civically involved.

“That Guy” is inconsiderate.
It all boils down to this. Consideration of your fellow hikers and the pristine natural environment that we are walking through is what the AT is all about. Hike Your Own Hike does not give you permission to trample the beauty and experience of your fellow hikers. Being considerate means a full awareness and understanding of your surroundings and responding accordingly.


Are you a “they should” or a “we should”?
Become a member of the Appalachian Trail Conservancy today.

©“Don’t be that guy” is the copyright of Fred Crawford. Authorized use is by permission only.

[Speakeasy TN]

If BSPs approach alone worked, we wouldnt be having this discussion.

You dont need to be a member of the ATC to read a notice posted in shelters from GA to ME.

When everyone knows whats expected, and the possible repercussions, then peer pressure might straighten out the bad apples.

Again I say, you're responsible for finding out the varied rules along the trail. It's all that is asked of you. As for BSP you are spoon-fed the rules when you enter. It's not that they don't know.......

[MuddyWaters]

Again I say, you're responsible for finding out the varied rules along the trail. It's all that is asked of you. As for BSP you are spoon-fed the rules when you enter. It's not that they don't know.......

Maybe they need more notice to get used to the idea
Maybe they need to know their behavior may have repercussions for the trail and all that come after them
Maybe they need to have their arse kicked by companions that do care

[Sly]

I do go. I do obey the rules. That's the point. Read the post. They need you and you need them. Rules ought to be obeyed, by all parties inside the park. It's a beautiful place id love to preserve it, as 99.9% of thruhikers all think. I have felt for a long time that "friends of BSP" have had animosity towards the thruhiking community, and I think that positive communication between advocates of the park and ATC will improve matters, without all the threatening bluster I've read on this thread.

How can you say that, isn't it your video that shows a large group of hikers popping champagne on the summit? In the meantime, there may have been a guy with his kid waiting 30 minutes to get anywhere near the sign but, your group was so involved in self-indulgence you didn't even notice, or didn't care. Just because you hiked 2185 miles means squat to anybody but a small minority of hikers.

[JohnnySnook]

Sounds great! Thru-hikers should be limited and charged more to hike to the summit or anywhere on the At. BAD IDEA! This attitude will only allow the super rich hiker funded by their parents and not the true thru hiker. These rich kids will have people holding camp sites for weeks for their party hiking family.

I'm sure a search of these motorhomes and cars will uncover a large amount of booze for them to celebrate the end of there hike with.

As a car camper in the past I would like to see the results of all vehicles being searched., I bet 90% would contain plenty of booze. In the evening go check all the red plastic cup around each campfire to make sure they are drinking water! LOl. Not many I bet.

I think many really enjoy seeing a group of thru hikers finishing their dreams!

Will a few that get out of control cause problems? yes, but do those few compare to the car campers with a RV / car full of booze that party every night? Bringing in massive amount of fire wood for huge bond fires with drunk people diving thru the flames.

I honestly don't think its there major problem in any park. Car campers cause all kinds of problems in every state / national park. 300 to 500 thru hikers are not the problem.

All this talk about thru hikers being the problem makes be sick. Thru hikers are just the ones with the least amount of money so they are targeted.

I'm sure many day hikers just can't wait to see a thru hiker. I'm sure if no thru hikers showed up at the summit they would be disappointed.
The joy others can feel in the completion of a thru hike is actually something the day hiker gets a rush from.

What do you when you graduate school?
What do you do when you get married?
What do you do when you get a promotion?
What do you do when you get a raise?
What do you do when you quit a crappy job?

Just take a guess white blaze members?

Possibly pop a bottle of champagne or a ice cold beer?

No, No, No, No, No, No, No that just wouldn't be right! LOL!

[Traveler]

How can you say that, isn't your video that shows a large group of hikers popping champagne on the summit? In the meantime there may have been a guy with his kid waiting 30 minutes to get anywhere near the sign but your group was so involved in self-indulgence you didn't even notice, or didn't care. Just because you hiked 2185 miles means squat to anybody but a small minority of hikers.

This gives the idea of the trail termini being in or near a town setting a decent one. Though Springer would be the first/last, Katahdin the last/First mountains, the end of the trail would be several miles further and end at a spot that would be conducive to drinking and other things people are compelled to do at start ups or completions.

[bobp]

I'm sure many day hikers just can't wait to see a thru hiker. I'm sure if no thru hikers showed up at the summit they would be disappointed.
The joy others can feel in the completion of a thru hike is actually something the day hiker gets a rush from.

What do you when you graduate school?
What do you do when you get married?
What do you do when you get a promotion?
What do you do when you get a raise?
What do you do when you quit a crappy job?

Just take a guess white blaze members?

Possibly pop a bottle of champagne or a ice cold beer?

While a small percentage of people might share the joy, you will be far closer to the truth (and far less annoying) if you assume that no stranger will care in the least bit about your graduation, thru-hike, summit, raise, marriage, loss of virginity, etc. You will get even closer to the truth if you assume that only about half of the people who know you will care.

I've hiked the AT in bit and pieces for a number of decades, and I can't ever recall thinking that what I needed to make the experience complete was a thru-hiker sighting (Bear - check. Timber rattler - check. Thru-hiker - check. Wheelchair-accessible outhouse - check.).

[jimyjam]

Reading thru this post is really starting to put a damper on my future thru hike buzz! It really does just seem simple. If everyone showed common curtsey and compassion for everyone else (on and off the trail really) and followed the rules these issues would be small or nonexistant....YES FOLLOW THE RULES!! Life is full of rules and it's not up to us to determine the necessity or importance of rules. As civil human beans it's up to us to follow them! If you have a set of rules at your home isn't up to visitors to follow them??? Or they won't be welcomed back! It really is pretty simple. I agree, today's youth/young adults seem to have a since of entitlement about them. We really do earn things in life. Even others respect!!


Life is full of ups and downs! Hike on!

[Speakeasy TN]

Sounds great! Thru-hikers should be limited and charged more to hike to the summit or anywhere on the At. BAD IDEA! This attitude will only allow the super rich hiker funded by their parents and not the true thru hiker. These rich kids will have people holding camp sites for weeks for their party hiking family.

I'm sure a search of these motorhomes and cars will uncover a large amount of booze for them to celebrate the end of there hike with.

As a car camper in the past I would like to see the results of all vehicles being searched., I bet 90% would contain plenty of booze. In the evening go check all the red plastic cup around each campfire to make sure they are drinking water! LOl. Not many I bet.

I think many really enjoy seeing a group of thru hikers finishing their dreams!

Will a few that get out of control cause problems? yes, but do those few compare to the car campers with a RV / car full of booze that party every night? Bringing in massive amount of fire wood for huge bond fires with drunk people diving thru the flames.

I honestly don't think its there major problem in any park. Car campers cause all kinds of problems in every state / national park. 300 to 500 thru hikers are not the problem.

All this talk about thru hikers being the problem makes be sick. Thru hikers are just the ones with the least amount of money so they are targeted.

I'm sure many day hikers just can't wait to see a thru hiker. I'm sure if no thru hikers showed up at the summit they would be disappointed.
The joy others can feel in the completion of a thru hike is actually something the day hiker gets a rush from.

What do you when you graduate school?
What do you do when you get married?
What do you do when you get a promotion?
What do you do when you get a raise?
What do you do when you quit a crappy job?

Just take a guess white blaze members?

Possibly pop a bottle of champagne or a ice cold beer?

No, No, No, No, No, No, No that just wouldn't be right! LOL!

I celebrate lots of things. I don't do it in a way that is explicitly prohibited.

Keep telling yourself that the day hikers are getting a rush...... the drunk at the local bar thinks people are laughing with him not at him.

[gpburdelljr]

I'm sure many day hikers just can't wait to see a thru hiker. I'm sure if no thru hikers showed up at the summit they would be disappointed.
The joy others can feel in the completion of a thru hike is actually something the day hiker gets a rush from.

What do you when you graduate school?
What do you do when you get married?
What do you do when you get a promotion?
What do you do when you get a raise?
What do you do when you quit a crappy job?

Just take a guess white blaze members?

Possibly pop a bottle of champagne or a ice cold beer?

No, No, No, No, No, No, No that just wouldn't be right! LOL!

Thinking that day hikers are thrilled to see a thru-hiker is the kind of "entitlement" thinking of some that causes the problems.
People don't pop champagne in the school, church, or office, they do it in a bar or at home, where it is more appropriate. Why would it be appropriate to pop champagne in a state park where it is illegal.

[Speakeasy TN]

Maybe they need more notice to get used to the idea
Maybe they need to know their behavior may have repercussions for the trail and all that come after them
Maybe they need to have their arse kicked by companions that do care

They've had 2100 miles and months by the time they hit Baxter.
Common sense? Every action has repercussions.....
I agree..... It's not solely the ATC's responsibility. Put the top side of that boot to good use too!

[MuddyWaters]

They've had 2100 miles and months by the time they hit Baxter.
Common sense? Every action has repercussions.....
I agree..... It's not solely the ATC's responsibility. Put the top side of that boot to good use too!

Most would be confronted with baxters rules on group size, camping locations, alcohol, etc when they get there. By that time they may have already made plans in ignorance. It is much more difficult to get people to change plans, than to do the right thing in the first place. Start broadcasting the issues, early, and most will do the right thing. Those that dont want to, will probably be coerced by peer pressure .

[soilman]

The ATC cannot solve this problem on their own. If only 25% of thru hikers are ATC members, how does the ATC educate the others? I doubt if the other 75% has had much contact with the ATC. I don't think the problem behavior is something that is gained while hiking 2000 miles. I think for many of these individuals, they bring the attitude with them as soon as they take their first step on the Springer. Bad behavior is not limited to BSP. In 2010 the TVA police were issuing fines for drinking at the Fontana Hilton. In spite of warnings in trail registers and first hand accounts by other hikers some chose to ignore this and received a fine. Then they bitched about the TVA police. Same thing at the Partnership shelter. People are warned but do not heed and then are fined. Then it's the Forest Service's fault. If hikers don't start following the rules, not only are they in danger of losing access to BSP, they may find other services, such as hostels, laundries, and coffee shops gone or off limits. I think many see the trail as some frontier where rules do not apply. Where they can do what they want, sleep where they want, walk where they want, and then be treated like a celebrity.

[Lone Wolf]

there are recent photos on facebook showing a hiker drinking at the hilton. there are signs clearly posted there. all the "education", signage, and threats of fines will not stop hikers from breaking rules/laws on the AT. perid

[ChefATLTCT]

semicolon said "AT does not run thru colorado, so keep spliffs in your tent"

It does run thru CT and MA which have both decriminalized marijuana possession up to one ounce. VT gov wants to fully legalize. And in 2016 in MA we will vote to fully legalize.

[Speakeasy TN]

And BSP isn't located in any of those.

semicolon said "AT does not run thru colorado, so keep spliffs in your tent"

It does run thru CT and MA which have both decriminalized marijuana possession up to one ounce. VT gov wants to fully legalize. And in 2016 in MA we will vote to fully legalize.

[Coffee]

Reading thru this post is really starting to put a damper on my future thru hike buzz! It really does just seem simple. If everyone showed common curtsey and compassion for everyone else (on and off the trail really) and followed the rules these issues would be small or nonexistant....YES FOLLOW THE RULES!!

I think that it is important to keep things in perspective. Most people I've met in connection with longer hiking trips have been great ... Hikers, people in towns, service providers. On a single day in my home city, I would likely come in contact with more jerks than I did for a month in Colorado. Yes, there are some inconsiderate hikers out there and service providers who don't want our business but this isn't rampant. Now I haven't ever been in an AT bubble so maybe that would change my mind. I would avoid it. But I doubt the percentage of idiots even in the midst of the bubble would exceed the very entitled jerks on a subway ride here at home on any given Monday morning.

This is isn't to say the issues discussed here aren't serious, only that I don't think it should deter anyone from hiking out of fear that the trail will be overrun by jerks.