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  1. #1

    Default Baxter State Park AT concerns - Wow

    The following letter was sent to the ATC by the superintendent of Baxter State Park to the ATC and a copy of it is on the BSP website.

    http://www.baxterstateparkauthority....%20scanned.pdf

    It lays out a lot of issues, no solutions but what is not said is just important and what it said. When the IAT attempted to force a route in the park at its beginning, the park responded by closing down a trail and forcing the trail to run outside park borders.

    I do applaud the enforcement against people who submit false papers for service dogs.

  2. #2
    Registered User DavidNH's Avatar
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    This letter by the Baxter State Park authority lays out nicely the problem with AT thru hikers these days. Not all, perhaps not even most, but way too many of them are self entitled jack asses that just want to party as if the trail was one big college campus. Fact is, no hiker-- esp no thru hiker-- has any god given right to be on the trail or to access its facilities. Using drugs or heavily drinking alcohol on the summit of Katahdin in full view of the families and day hikers is really pretty low right along side those who don't respect park regulations or tell a care taker in late afternoon they are going to hike the 10 miles to Abol but really plan to stealth camp. that is both dishonest and disrespectful.

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    My first reaction was that BSP should require hikers to pass an IQ test for entry. It looks like that would cut the numbers of abusers significantly.
    "It goes to show you never can tell." - Charles Edward Anderson Berry

  4. #4

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    Wow. If this keeps up it sounds like before long the park will be closed to thru hikers and trespassers shot.

    Maybe the AT needs to buy some land the other side of Abol Bridge and build a holding pen with a lottery to select who gets to climb the mountain each day. After paying a $200 fee and of course without their dog and recreational enhancements.

    I guess thru hiking has become too easy or there's a lot of yellow blazing going on.
    Last edited by Slo-go'en; 12-12-2014 at 13:15.
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  5. #5
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    Yet another reason to plan a SOBO thru hike starting around July 1 2016 or 2017 when few NOBOs will be at Baxter yet, and then avoiding shelters and other party zones as much as possible until the NOBOs have dwindled. The culture described in the letter is exactly the opposite of what I would seek on an AT thru hike.

  6. #6
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    I agree with posts #1-4 above, but playing devil's advocate:

    I think it sounds like the letter writer is saying ALL AT hikers are doing the behaviors he's complaining about. I think he may be exaggerating a wee bit on some of it (no evidence, just opinion) and relying on hearsay.

    Still: if the illegal behaviors are going on, perhaps a stiff fine and/or 30 day jail stint would cut down on the behaviors, properly advertised, of course.
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  7. #7
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    Daaamn....

    "Fake service dogs" is not just a problem in BSP unfortunately. A growing trend in NP units overall...heck society in general.
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  8. #8
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    Wow, sounds like the issue of AT overcrowding is coming to a head. In reference to the other thread going on about similar issues at the Springer end, it looks like encouraging more SOBO starts from Katahdin will just increase the problems on the North end.

    I presume (hope) that the threat to restrict the AT from the park (some other terminus) was just an attention getter, but this has to be taken seriously. I hate to say it but the time for a Thru-hiker permitting system may have arrived.

  9. #9
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    Clearly the the movies Wild and AWITW has the BSP officials very concerned.

  10. #10
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    So, the ATC made a mistake by putting the trail on a piece of land that they could never get full control of(I know this is not the only example of this) and BSP made a mistake by assuming that all AT hikers would be respecful, polite, and honest.

    My advice to BSP would be to take a harsher line on enforcement. Other option is for both parties to shake hands and part ways.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    Yet another reason to plan a SOBO thru hike starting around July 1 2016 or 2017 when few NOBOs will be at Baxter yet, and then avoiding shelters and other party zones as much as possible until the NOBOs have dwindled. The culture described in the letter is exactly the opposite of what I would seek on an AT thru hike.
    Apparently SOBOs are a big problem too. They want to climb the mountain without first getting the proper reservations and permit (their not a thru hiker yet) and many are ill prepared to enter the 100 mile wilderness.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hiker View Post
    I agree with posts #1-4 above, but playing devil's advocate:

    I think it sounds like the letter writer is saying ALL AT hikers are doing the behaviors he's complaining about. I think he may be exaggerating a wee bit on some of it (no evidence, just opinion) and relying on hearsay.
    The writer of the letter is an official of Baxter state park who know exactly what she is talking about. The complaint is of the shear numbers arriving at Baxter and that many of them behave badly. Enough to be an issue and a concern.
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  13. #13

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    I love it when a Park administrator whines about people on foot in a park wide open to 44 foot RVs, motorboats, airplanes, snowmobiles and motorcycles. With a total number of 63,500 visitors to Baxter, the honchos are desperately worried about the 3% who are on foot? Crazy. How can 3% challenge their Park mission? Or challenge the "wilderness experience for park visitors" when the Park has numerous roads and 10 major car campgrounds?

    Once again the car crowd dictates user numbers and car campgrounds seem to be the top priority for Baxter. Was 44 foot RVs part of Mr Baxter's initial vision of the land? Doubtful. How about aircraft allowed to land and take off on 3 lakes in the Park? Was Mr Baxter warned of this?

    Here's a neat quote---
    "We do not plan on expanding lodging availability . . . for AT hikers in Baxter Park." Why the heck not? How about closing the 10 car campgrounds first and then focus on those on foot??

    Baxter Roads
    ** Golden road.
    ** Maine 157 (Baxter Park rd).
    ** Park Tote Rd cuts thru all the park.
    ** Roaring Brook rd.
    ** Wadleigh Mt rd.
    ** Braley Ridge rd.

    MAJOR BAXTER CAR CAMPGROUNDS
    ** Daicey Pond campground.
    ** Katahdin Stream campground.
    ** Abol campground.
    ** Chimney Pond campground.
    ** Roaring Brook campground.
    ** Nesowadnahunk Field campground.
    ** Russell Pond campground.
    ** South Branch Pond campground.
    ** Trout Brook Farm campground.

    I'd close all of the above first and THEN ponder those on foot. Oh, and snowmobiles can be used on 4 lakes and on many roads in the park. And outboard motorboats are allowed on 5 lakes/ponds. Crazy.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Apparently SOBOs are a big problem too. They want to climb the mountain without first getting the proper reservations and permit (their not a thru hiker yet) and many are ill prepared to enter the 100 mile wilderness.
    Sure but I understand the regs and can easily plan to abide by them.
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  15. #15
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    It would be very interesting to know the age of the AT hikers that register at BSP... I wonder how well it would correlate to baby boomers reaching retirement age. I'll be one of those statistics soon

  16. #16
    CDT - 2013, PCT - 2009, AT - 1300 miles done burger's Avatar
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    I am fully in agreement with the letter writer: it's time for a quota/permit system. Parks and forests and wild places in general cannot handle unlimited numbers of visitors without damage to the resources that those parks are meant to protect.

    Judging from the from the rate that those numbers in the graph are going up, it won't belong before we have 2000, 3000, even 5000 thru-hikers (NOBO and SOBO) wanting to summit Katahdin plus a large number of section hikers. That's too many.

  17. #17

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    Tipi, car camper vehicles are confined to roads, while AT hikers impact fragile alpine areas. It also appears that many AT hikers are breaking Park rules, and skipping out on fees. The state of Maine doesn't owe non-residents anything.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadeye View Post
    It would be very interesting to know the age of the AT hikers that register at BSP... I wonder how well it would correlate to baby boomers reaching retirement age. I'll be one of those statistics soon
    The letter mentioned the influx of college age kids, not baby boomers.

  19. #19
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    Oh, so it isn't gangs of foul-mouthed 60-70 year olds smoking, drinking and yucking it up in BSP? I guess we still have to go to Sun City for that, eh?
    "It goes to show you never can tell." - Charles Edward Anderson Berry

  20. #20
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    Aside from the complaints about misbehaving hikers, the letter also mentioned more than once the time spent by rangers in "extensive and ongoing radio communications" assisting hikers with campground reservations and communications with shuttles/family/etc. Is there a reasonable solution to this that would ease at least one of their frustrations? Maybe a self-serve radio system or - God forbid! - a cell tower.

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