Baxter State Park AT concerns - Wow

[soilman]

Crabapple The ATC is just going to have to take a little money out of their $20 million a year land buying budget to make some repairs to the northern & southern end of the trail. Actually maybe it's time that the ATC gets out of the land buying business altogether and comes back to overseeing just the Appalachian Trail.

From where did you pull that number?

[freightliner]

They put out there budget every year for all to see. Don't get me wrong I do think protecting nature is important but protecting the trail form bad hikers is more important for all. How about someone chime with the amount of money the AT spent on the trail last year. I'm out of town and can't look it up.

[Speakeasy TN]

Crabapple I agree with you that the ATC should build a bigger better shelter/camp either inside or outside the park. To me that is what BSP is trying to say is its time to do something and they don't want to take any money out of their budget to do it. The ATC is just going to have to take a little money out of their $20 million a year land buying budget to make some repairs to the northern & southern end of the trail. Actually maybe it's time that the ATC gets out of the land buying business altogether and comes back to overseeing just the Appalachian Trail.

I could never see the residents of Maine allowing the park to remove the AT from Mount Katahdin. It was the residents that demand that the auto road be opened up for snowmobile use. I think it's safe to say that nearly every resident of Maine has a sled in there shed. I've seen guys argue for hours over what is the best sled or the best chainsaw. They have the same amount of miles of sled trails as they do roads. Hiking camping fishing hunting lobstering and snowmobiling is the only thing that Maine has left now that the timber industry is pretty much gone.

I am happy to see that everybody is committed to preserving the thru hiker way of life. I should also say that it's hard for me to say no alcohol at all while hiking. One of my favorite things to do is hike up a mountain to a beautiful view with a few beers and a block of seriously sharp cheddar cheese. I do keep it private though and when I get down off the mountain my buzz is gone and I am able to drive home safely. To me life doesn't get any better than that. Well maybe if I could hike with Reese Witherspoon. That would be better

I'm no accountant but it looks to me like the ATC runs on about 6 millon a year and they hold about the same in land and buildings......... if I read correctly. a proctologist was responsible for pulling out that number.

[freightliner]

Okay my bad please forgive me somehow but there still should be some room for hiker education. Maybe something like backpacker magazine get out more tour. They can have a hike the Appalachian Trail tour where they go to outfitters and college campuses talking about the proper way to hike the Appalachian Trail. I would imagine it would also be a good time to sign up new members. I don't have the answers but I know that something needs to be done before the government appoints a Czar to rule over the trail.

[full conditions]

I'm no accountant but it looks to me like the ATC runs on about 6 millon a year and they hold about the same in land and buildings......... if I read correctly. a proctologist was responsible for pulling out that number.

LOL that's exactly right. I'm amazed at the amount of sheer ignorance displayed by the posters who grandly pronounce that the ATC should do this, that, and the other thing without knowing anything about the organization. A couple of points are worth mentioning- first, the ATC has virtually no law enforcement authority over any of the lands traversed by the trail; second, the ATC does not "promote" use of the trail - they do provide information about the trail to people who ask for it; third, for everyone who has demanded that the ATC provide personnel at Baxter, etc., who's going to pay for that, you? On 6.5 million a year, providing stewardship for 2,200 miles of trail and tens of thousands of acres of land requires the efforts of countless volunteers and underpaid interns. Which brings me to my last point - a recent poll showed that less that a quarter of all thru hikers were actual members of the ATC and I'd be willing to bet that it's even lower for posters on these threads. So, here's a couple of things you can do, pony up a membership to the ATC, join one of the local maintaining clubs, and get out there with a mattock or swing blade start doing more giving and less taking.

[Speakeasy TN]

Okay my bad please forgive me somehow but there still should be some room for hiker education. Maybe something like backpacker magazine get out more tour. They can have a hike the Appalachian Trail tour where they go to outfitters and college campuses talking about the proper way to hike the Appalachian Trail. I would imagine it would also be a good time to sign up new members. I don't have the answers but I know that something needs to be done before the government appoints a Czar to rule over the trail.

Sorry if that sounded harsh! My point is and has been that the answer to behavioral problems is already in place. There are plenty of us that know and care about the issue. The problem can't be fixed by throwing money at it. It needs boots on the ground. We are the educators.

[Speakeasy TN]

LOL that's exactly right. I'm amazed at the amount of sheer ignorance displayed by the posters who grandly pronounce that the ATC should do this, that, and the other thing without knowing anything about the organization. A couple of points are worth mentioning- first, the ATC has virtually no law enforcement authority over any of the lands traversed by the trail; second, the ATC does not "promote" use of the trail - they do provide information about the trail to people who ask for it; third, for everyone who has demanded that the ATC provide personnel at Baxter, etc., who's going to pay for that, you? On 6.5 million a year, providing stewardship for 2,200 miles of trail and tens of thousands of acres of land requires the efforts of countless volunteers and underpaid interns. Which brings me to my last point - a recent poll showed that less that a quarter of all thru hikers were actual members of the ATC and I'd be willing to bet that it's even lower for posters on these threads. So, here's a couple of things you can do, pony up a membership to the ATC, join one of the local maintaining clubs, and get out there with a mattock or swing blade start doing more giving and less taking.

I'd be happy if you weren't allowed to type "the ATC ought to" unless you were a member. I look at my gear and the cost of membership...... no comparison. Ask for membership for Christmas.....it matters folks.

[freightliner]

I am a member of the Appalachian Trail Conservancy Green Mountain club Appalachian Mountain Club New York New Jersey trail conference and the Appalachian long-distance hikers association. I hope I have earned my right for an opinion of what I see is a serious problem. I now see where I made the mistake of confusing the Appalachian mountain club's budget with the Appalachian Trail budget. I used to live within site of the most climbed mountain in the world and the state of New Hampshire dose just fine with the amount of people. There is somebody at the trailhead to tell you how to behave on the mountain and also to collect some money out of you. I never expect anything in this world to be free well except my opinion and I'll give that out generously.

For those people who think leaving the law of the land up to the people who live there should read the book Lord of the flies. If the ATC does not have any authority over the trail what happened to the ATC policeman that they used to have did he get cut from the budget? I met him 10 years ago when he was looking for a thru hikers who was writing his name on everything. I think he was a pretty cool dude he ended up giving me a bottle of water and a snickers bar. I only wish I could've helped him but the hiker was behind me.

[Sly]

If the ATC does not have any authority over the trail what happened to the ATC policeman that they used to have did he get cut from the budget? I met him 10 years ago when he was looking for a thru hikers who was writing his name on everything. I think he was a pretty cool dude he ended up giving me a bottle of water and a snickers bar.

I think you're confusing the only AT specific ranger who works for the NPS with the ATC. Other LEO's on the trail; are rangers in the GSMNP or SNP, PA gameland wardens, the BSP and and maybe some forest service rangers, but I've never seen one of them.

[full conditions]

I am a member of the Appalachian Trail Conservancy Green Mountain club Appalachian Mountain Club New York New Jersey trail conference and the Appalachian long-distance hikers association. I hope I have earned my right for an opinion of what I see is a serious problem. I now see where I made the mistake of confusing the Appalachian mountain club's budget with the Appalachian Trail budget. I used to live within site of the most climbed mountain in the world and the state of New Hampshire dose just fine with the amount of people. There is somebody at the trailhead to tell you how to behave on the mountain and also to collect some money out of you. I never expect anything in this world to be free well except my opinion and I'll give that out generously.

For those people who think leaving the law of the land up to the people who live there should read the book Lord of the flies. If the ATC does not have any authority over the trail what happened to the ATC policeman that they used to have did he get cut from the budget? I met him 10 years ago when he was looking for a thru hikers who was writing his name on everything. I think he was a pretty cool dude he ended up giving me a bottle of water and a snickers bar. I only wish I could've helped him but the hiker was behind me.

LOL OMG there has never been any such thing as an "ATC policeman". I'm not sure what you think the ATC is but it has never had any policemen anymore than the Elks, or NAACP or any other non-profit organization has. Where do people come up with this stuff?

[rickb]

LOL OMG there has never been any such thing as an "ATC policeman". I'm not sure what you think the ATC is but it has never had any policemen anymore than the Elks, or NAACP or any other non-profit organization has. Where do people come up with this stuff?

He probably met and was thinking of this individual:

http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Todd-Remaley/28920489

One of the great things about the ATC is how closely they work with maintaining clubs, individuals and the National Park Service. I can understand how how some of the distinctions get blurred, even though the roles of each organization are clearly defined differently.

Edit: In this context it kind of funny that the link I posted makes makes it look like Mr. Remaley worked for the ATC rather than the ATPO (which is part of the NPS). OK?

[freightliner]

Thanks rickb that's the guy I met but I didn't know what his official title was. So if the ATC doesn't protect hikers and it doesn't promote the trail what does the ATC do then? Thanks to all you guys I'm starting to feel pretty stupid about what I expected the role of the ATC was. Is there anybody out there who is expected to maintain the behavior of hikers on the trail? Is this the problem all along and why things are going bad?

[full conditions]

Thanks rickb that's the guy I met but I didn't know what his official title was. So if the ATC doesn't protect hikers and it doesn't promote the trail what does the ATC do then? Thanks to all you guys I'm starting to feel pretty stupid about what I expected the role of the ATC was. Is there anybody out there who is expected to maintain the behavior of hikers on the trail? Is this the problem all along and why things are going bad?

You're a member of the ATC and you don't know what they do? If you go to heir website you will see at the top of the page "what we do" - scroll down and they list: trail management and support; conservation; youth and education; community education. No law enforcement.

[Tuckahoe]

Thanks rickb that's the guy I met but I didn't know what his official title was. So if the ATC doesn't protect hikers and it doesn't promote the trail what does the ATC do then? Thanks to all you guys I'm starting to feel pretty stupid about what I expected the role of the ATC was. Is there anybody out there who is expected to maintain the behavior of hikers on the trail? Is this the problem all along and why things are going bad?

Only "you" are responsible for yourself and your behavior. No one else is responsible for you, your protection or how you behave.

[rickb]

Only "you" are responsible for yourself and your behavior. No one else is responsible for you, your protection or how you behave.

Here is a very cool example of how this can play out at Baxter.

http://bangordailynews.com/2014/07/0...h-park-policy/

[bangorme]

I'd be happy if you weren't allowed to type "the ATC ought to" unless you were a member. I look at my gear and the cost of membership...... no comparison. Ask for membership for Christmas.....it matters folks.

I'm a fan of the ATC, but I don't understand what it has to do with the problem at Baxter? As someone said earlier, it has no enforcement authority whatsoever. The property owners are the ones with the problems and the ones that will solve them. In the case of Baxter, they will be resolved to the best benefit of the majority of users of the park and the Maine taxpayers, not the comparatively minuscule number that thru-hike the AT.

My father took his vacation time every year so he could bring his kids to Baxter State Park. Weather permitting, we climbed the mountain every year. No one wants to get their kids to the summit, only to find a bunch of drunks and potheads celebrating a personal accomplishment that no one else cares about except them. Now, that may sound mean, but it is the perspective of the vast majority of users of the park, and certainly the vast majority of Maine taxpayers that fund it. The problem will be fixed. Ideally by us and not the Park, but it will be fixed.

[ALLEGHENY]

I'm a fan of the ATC, but I don't understand what it has to do with the problem at Baxter? As someone said earlier, it has no enforcement authority whatsoever. The property owners are the ones with the problems and the ones that will solve them. In the case of Baxter, they will be resolved to the best benefit of the majority of users of the park and the Maine taxpayers, not the comparatively minuscule number that thru-hike the AT.

My father took his vacation time every year so he could bring his kids to Baxter State Park. Weather permitting, we climbed the mountain every year. No one wants to get their kids to the summit, only to find a bunch of drunks and potheads celebrating a personal accomplishment that no one else cares about except them. Now, that may sound mean, but it is the perspective of the vast majority of users of the park, and certainly the vast majority of Maine taxpayers that fund it. The problem will be fixed. Ideally by us and not the Park, but it will be fixed.

Baxter Park is operated solely through user fees and interest from trust funds provided by Percival Baxter. Baxter State Park receives no tax dollars or other funds from the State of Maine

[ALLEGHENY]

Baxter Park is operated solely through user fees and interest from trust funds provided by Percival Baxter. Baxter State Park receives no tax dollars or other funds from the State of Maine

Sorry I copied that from BSP web page under general info.

[rocketsocks]

New law that goes into effect Jan. 1st 2015 to help defray cost of search and rescue.

http://wildnh.com/safe/hike_safe_card_FAQs.html

[bangorme]

Baxter Park is operated solely through user fees and interest from trust funds provided by Percival Baxter. Baxter State Park receives no tax dollars or other funds from the State of Maine

This is true, but the park itself is 200,000 acres of tax exempt real estate. The roads to and from the park are tax payer supported infrastructure. Tax payer funded Maine Game Wardens and Maine Forest Service (fire protection) are assigned to the park. There is no free lunch, even in the wilderness. I'm not saying that the State loses money on the park... I don't know. The people that visit the park (and pay for campsites) pay lodging tax. The people that have to drive all the way up there pay sales and gas tax.