are we part of the problem....

[4shot]

reading all the posts about unsubstainable numbers of thru hikers, etc. on the AT I often wonder if we (the WB community as a whole) aren't part of the problem. My thinking goes like this....outside of anonymous WB posters or while hiking the AT itself, I have never, ever met anyone who has thru hiked, either before or after my hike. And I have been on this globe for awhile. I stumbled onto this place just prior to my thru hike. It seems like this place is a "search engine" for any conceivable question a priori and every prospective hiker can submit a list of gear for "approval" before setting out. We all laugh, slap him or her on the back and tell everyone to "enjoy the vacation" and "it's just walking", etc.

This is not a complaint or critique...I have enjoyed this site over the years. it's been a great source of information. but i often wonder if 'we" aren't part of the problem vis-a-vis overcrowding or overuse of the AT. Comments?

[Fairway]

Haven't you been reading anything here. The problem isn't the wealth of information available on the trail. Nope. The only people to blame are these younger hikers. All they want to do is party. Listen to that terrible EDM music. Smoke too many marijuanas. Drink too many beers. Talk on their cell phones. Write on their facebooks. Hike too fast. Carry their "ultralight" gear. Stay in the shelters. Sleep in their tents. Hike in the winter when its too cold. Hike in the summer when its too hot. They're the ones to blame for all of this. GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

[Another Kevin]

The only people to blame are these younger hikers. All they want to do is party. Listen to that terrible EDM music. Smoke too many marijuanas. Drink too many beers. Talk on their cell phones. Write on their facebooks. Hike too fast. Carry their "ultralight" gear. Stay in the shelters. Sleep in their tents. Hike in the winter when its too cold. Hike in the summer when its too hot. They're the ones to blame for all of this. GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

As a certified old fart, I think I've done most of the above, except perhaps walk on your lawn.

It's just in our old age, we get less patient with it.

[yerbyray]

I think the internet and forums have made it much easier for those who do not have the experience in the woods to hike the AT. Anyone can sit here and read a few days worth of information and as long as they are in decent shape and have a strong will....they might just make it.
I thankfully learned to appreciate the outdoors from an early age and can fondly remember summiting my first "mountain" as a Tenderfoot in scouts in 1979.
Scouting and belonging to a family that taught good stewardship helped me and I know that I am an exception.
The AT has become a 2100 mile party spot.

[Connie]

Hah! It is not "kids". It is "the sixties" people, now in their 60's.

Other's, here, are nice people, helpful "to a fault".

We give helpful advice. We share our experience.

The "imbided" and the "dopers" however, advertise "the party".

Trails and natural resources are getting exploited for "entertainment" purposes, not protected. It is important to protect natural environment experience so others can experience what it means to be a natural human being, even if you do not care to have that experience. It is a limited resource. In fact, most people say, Oh, that is a wilderness. The fact is, it is nothing like an authentic wilderness.

We are part of nature, too. But how would you know that without first-hand experience of an authentic natural environment?

[hikehunter]

Being in the (over the hill) age group....we are the group that fund many action groups.....as we are solid in our lifes work and have a little extra income to put where we belive tha it will work toward what we like and love.
there are too many people that are mostly under the age of 35 that are of the mind set.." It is mine and I want what is mine and to hell with what is for anyone else..."

All of the above having been said............people need to be accountable for their own actions. Take some ownership of this great land where we live and teach and guide younger folks to the best outcome for nature and all; do not belittle and preach like an over bearing helicopter parent.

H ike Y our O wn H ike...... however remember the folks that follow in your foot steps may be watching....

[JohnnySnook]

I think so for sure. I'm in the middle of the age group but see the elitists that post here not encouraging the younger crowd to be part of protecting the trail.

What were the hikers in the 60's and 70's doing/ Free love, lots of drugs, a bit of smoking, and not spending so much on drinking! The drugs where so much better I'm sure many have forgotten them or just don't want to admit it now that they are so much better than the rest of those hiking the trail these days. Just saying….

Why do people want to have a beer or pop a bottle of champagne on the the top of a mountain at the end of their hike? Well I guess its what most people do when the graduate from any school, get a promotion, get married, or any other accomplishment they have seceded in. Its an ingrained part in human behavior.

Some say the woods should be only for the fit. Day hikers ruin the views. Some drink and smoke on the trail. Sorry that your such a rebel to society the rest of us interrupted your lonely hike.

If anything we should be promoting hiking. Whether it be day hiking or thru-hiking. The handicapped or elderly shouldn't be able to go see a place they meet their best hiking partner, wife, or husband 50 years ago are now banned? This attitude makes me sick.

As some here may know the age of private forest owners is increasing rapidly. Most are 60 to 90 years in age. Do they love their forests and national parks? Yes, if not they would of sold them off. When they die do their kids that live in cities will have no problem selling off these lands for development. Just google it!

I doubt many of these kids will be donating the land to national parks.

If anything the super hikers or should I say 10,000 post whiteblaze members should be taking these land owner out into the woods or state and national parks to see the sites. Even if you have to help carry them 200 yards off the road and out of a parking lot to a waterfall. It may influence them to donate some or all of their land. Maybe take their children so the elderly land owners can tell their kids what the land and forests mean to them and why they should preserve these wild places. These people should be celebrated!

I guess the wounded warriors or a blind guy thats an AT hero should of been banned from the At also?

Millions of acres of private lands are at stake. To be donated or bought by the national park service or private groups that want to develop the land. Most will be lost in the next 20 years with the attitudes here. Just Sad….

I just rented "Hard Way Home" in vimeo for $3.99. Its funny how a younger woman during a AT thru hiker prep meeting basically disses whiteBlaze.com in the first 3 minutes of the film and everyone laughs.

The younger crowd is the future of the trail and all trails in the world. Isolate them and the lands will be lost.

For the first time since being a member here I have a hard time with the self centered posters here. Just keep pushing the youth away and that is what the wild will become overly protected, overrun, and possible empty once the sierra club, peta, and other groups decided all this land should be void of people to protect the animals and trees. Hikers will be banned also. Even those that LNT!

Wasn't Baxter Park donated? What about all the land recently donated bordering Baxter?

[Connie]

I was there in the 60's and 70's.

The people who did drugs didn't go hiking. Most, did that behind the dumpster behind the school. At most, they went to the end of a dirt road. A few, went to a Hot Springs to smoke marijuana. The LSD crowd looked at raindrops on the window of their VW bus. Well, that was the "scene".

The "kids" who hiked, encouraged other kids to participate in our Outdoor Program. We had equipment. We had signup sheets. The trip leader was self-appointed. Do you know that hike? Yeah. The trip leader put what was required: own hiking boots, for example. Backpacks were available at the equipment "cage" for holding your Student Union card. The Student Union card was the only way, with Driver's license, to cash a check in our college town. That was it. The trip leader, with friends on the hike, helped inexperienced people.

No whining. No one with a political agenda, or, an axe to grind.

I felt that was the way to "spread the word" you know, by example. Not by preaching.

I think, people, today, are very bossy. I also feel people, today, are reactionary.

I think, people, today, would rather work out their rhetoric, than "get something going" in the community.

[ericmack]

The trail is for all. Hikers of all types- shapes- ages. Volunteer to be a maintainer...pick-up after other people if they are rude enough to ignore "leave no trace" (or bury that which cannot be picked-up)...smile at the crowds on the trail since you will eventually be alone...love the world God gave us. That is what this old Army & ex-hippie thinks about this. Love this website and learn every day off it. Without the good people on it- would be too intimidated to even start. Good for you for caring enough to post advice-encouragement- knowledge.
Just saying.
Eric (Junk Man)

[garlic08]

I don't think WB is a problem. I'd never even heard of this site until after I'd hiked the AT in 2008 (and that was the last of my triple crown hikes) and Mags told me about it on a day hike (or more likely, at a brew pub after a day hike). I never heard WB mentioned on any of my thru hikes. A straw poll of actual thru hikers would be interesting. Unless a lot has happened since 2008, I just don't think it's a big effect. Or maybe I'm just not hanging out with the cool kids.

A lot of people would rather hike than read or blog about it. As Mags wrote recently, we all should get out more.

[jawnzee]

I know forums have emboldened me in the past, largely with my bike touring ambitions back before I ever slept in the woods.

Nothing wrong with that. The internet was made for forums. Connecting people who are otherwise disconnected. I think it's great.

Luckily, if you don't like the current AT, there are so many more trails and routes to do! Forums are great for spreading information about those, too

[rocketsocks]

reading all the posts about unsubstainable numbers of thru hikers, etc. on the AT I often wonder if we (the WB community as a whole) aren't part of the problem. My thinking goes like this....outside of anonymous WB posters or while hiking the AT itself, I have never, ever met anyone who has thru hiked, either before or after my hike. And I have been on this globe for awhile. I stumbled onto this place just prior to my thru hike. It seems like this place is a "search engine" for any conceivable question a priori and every prospective hiker can submit a list of gear for "approval" before setting out. We all laugh, slap him or her on the back and tell everyone to "enjoy the vacation" and "it's just walking", etc.

This is not a complaint or critique...I have enjoyed this site over the years. it's been a great source of information. but i often wonder if 'we" aren't part of the problem vis-a-vis overcrowding or overuse of the AT. Comments?

Understand the issue is not overcrowding at all times, just congested and overcrowded at certain times. Suggesting we hikers are part of the problem is an over simplification of the problem, we are.

[Starchild]

We are the problem - This is my largest criticism of LNT guidelines, as it is the only conclusion one can come to with LNT - We are the problem.

LNT separates us from nature, it only condemns our actions, it states nothing positive about us being there, it only implies all we can ever do is detract, perhaps on occasion break even, never help, never increase the value of the back-country experience for those who come next.

Some also take a false sense of pride and piety in following them with a religious type fervor - most of the time not understanding why they are following LNT except for 'it is written'. They turn guidelines into rules which many wish to see turn into enforced laws on managed lands. In this sense it is the opposite of education.

It is also used for people who wish to limit backcountry access to others as they prefer not to see others when they backpack, I've heard LNT as such justification.

So IMHO LNT is the problem, not that the guidelines should not be followed, but the guidelines should be arrived at individually from the motivation within the human heart. The motivation expressed in LNT is incorrect and totally opposite of what it should be, it does not engage the heart.

Wilderness ethics have to do with we are suppose to be in the wilderness, we are not a problem, as we are part of the wilderness and also part of human society. We have responsibility to both to ensure respect for nature and community (and earth). Each person's actions will directly impact the next person's experience, and that will be further passed along down the line (positive experience will lead the next person to do likewise, negative will do the same.)

[Connie]

Huh, I don't "get it" entirely: I carry a trashbag just for others trash: I pick up Mountain House packages abandoned at a pristine "stealth" campsite off the trail. I pick up "fire ring" debris, in a prepared campsite. I pickup trash after an event. I look at it this way: it is cast off manmade debris. It doesn't belong: I pick up every tiny celophane candy wrapper or plastic stir stick. Every candy wrapper. Every bottle. Every can. I do it.

Next, people there see "unvarnished" nature, even if not the "original" environment, at least, it has the trash picked up. It is much easier, for anyone, to begin to appreciate "the view" if there is no trash in "the view" from their home, from their car, or, from their walk.

I picked up one little county park, and, the dirt road. Nothing else happened.

I picked up Going-to-the-Sun Highway (two-lane) on the west side, until the road was too steep to stop.

Next, the community of the west side have provided giant dumpsters, every June, for the west side of Glacier National Park to bring trash. No trash at the roadside. No trash blown up against fences. No "hidden" trash in the woods, in a ravine, or on the prairie.

I thought LNT was about trash.

I also thought LNT is about not "making your mark" on the natural environment.

The people of North America did all they could to Leave No Trace. It is difficult to find a rock wall, or, stone circle. There are "middens" of shellfish debris, but well away, and covered by dirt and replanted. They burned fallen wood, or, diseased trees, for example, for their cooking fires. Hunt, but, Why take the "trophy"? Let it live on to reproduce.

These things imply a "peaceful coexistence" that is not "detente".

[kayak karl]

did we think this would last forever? the trail of the 60's is got. there will never be another Woodstock either. time changes things. the new movies were put out for $ , not love of the trail. we have more businesses counting on high numbers hiking; gear makers, hostels, shuttles, want-a-be-authors, you-tube, blogs, webcasts, etc.... What did we expect? talk about it here for change and your preaching to the choir, does no good. i don't have a solution, but i will never hike the trail in peak season

[Connie]

Most people that look at White Blaze "read".

They never, or, almost never "post" a comment.

There are 738 people, online at White Blaze, this moment.

I do not know a forum not like that.

Many forums have website statistics: how many visitors this day, this month, this year. Last year, this time. Etc.

The photos and remarks, here, at this forum of having alcohol and drugs make it look like the AT is for party-goers. PNT/CDT not so. Want no law enforcement, then get on the AT. Find out the tolerant "trail towns". Join the party. Hiking gets us further away from the law. But you don't have to go far. Some locations have a parking lot, ir, a "trail town" right on the trail.

All that tells hikers this is not their trail.

It is aggressive. It is deliberate, all the while acting all "carefree" and "unconcerned". "Free".

[atmilkman]

i don't have a solution, but i will never hike the trail in peak season

That's all I can think of to do. Back in the late 70's when I hiked the trail a lot I had a job where I had to hike in the off season. There were countless times where I was the only one for days on end. There were times when I was the only one down at Neel's (that's what we called Mountain Crossings) hanging out. Used to think it was so cool to be the only one at Blood Mountain. Off season is the cat's meow.

[DLP]

I'm also prone to blame websites and blogs and social media and everybody with their 2,573 Facebook "friends".

But realistically, the number of thru hikes have been doubling and tripling every decade or year for a very long time now, before books were written or movies made or before the internet. https://www.appalachiantrail.org/abo...il/2000-milers

The number of people participating in all "extreme" or long distance sports is up... be it marathons, ultra-marathons, century bike rides, etc, etc. I think that thru hiking may very well be part of this larger endurance exercise trend.

Don't know why people want to run or bike 100 miles or walk 2000. I think that it is just part of some people's personalities and might be genetic. Like a version of alcoholism or something. On the AT or other trails, those All or Nothing genetics play out with people binge walking or a walking bender.

[kayak karl]

The photos and remarks, here, at this forum of having alcohol and drugs make it look like the AT is for party-goers. PNT/CDT not so. Want no law enforcement, then get on the AT. Find out the tolerant "trail towns". Join the party. Hiking gets us further away from the law. But you don't have to go far. Some locations have a parking lot, ir, a "trail town" right on the trail.

All that tells hikers this is not their trail.

It is aggressive. It is deliberate, all the while acting all "carefree" and "unconcerned". "Free".

you seem to think the west coast ios so much better. how long do you think that will last. read the post of trail stops on the PCT, they have about had it too.

[DLP]

you seem to think the west coast ios so much better. how long do you think that will last. read the post of trail stops on the PCT, they have about had it too.

I agree. Many PTC thru hikers dislike Northern CA trail towns. They whine that our food and resupplies are too expensive and we are not friendly enough. Ummmm... ok. Stuff costs more in CA. Get over it.

The feeling is probably mutual and trail towns are not particularly fond of thru hikers. Or maybe Love/Hate relationship might be more accurate.