This is for all you winter hikers

[Old Hillwalker]

As a frequent winter hiker who carries and uses snowshoes for snow conditions where depth reach nearly a foot or more here is a bit of a rant about those who do not. I'm guessing that many of you don't hike during heavy snow conditions and don't know what this is all about. It's about POSTHOLES.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYivAQbYfoQ

[1azarus]

this is a very timely post, and really to the point, a point made in the very subtle way that we would expect from a Maine elder: To avoid cyberhacking, wait for over 50 years after the death of a tyrant before making a comedy involving the tyrant. A hard lesson for Sony.

[rocketsocks]

what a nice way to start a Friday morning, thanks for posting Old Hillwalker

rotflmao.gif




this film was brought to you by the makers of fine snowshoes everywhere

[ocasey3]

"You posthole and God kills a kitten." Pure gold

[Another Kevin]

Wow, what a relief! "It's ok, he's not talking about the Catskills!"

I'm bringing snowshoes this weekend, that's for sure. And 12-point crampons, because as 1azarus observed, there are conditions where snowshoes change from an asset to a liability. Forecast conditions are 18-24 inches of bulletproof hardpack.

[Connie]

Outstanding tirade!

How are subtitles added? I have an idea.

[1azarus]

Wow, what a relief! "It's ok, he's not talking about the Catskills!"

I'm bringing snowshoes this weekend, that's for sure. And 12-point crampons, because as 1azarus observed, there are conditions where snowshoes change from an asset to a liability. Forecast conditions are 18-24 inches of bulletproof hardpack.

i'm not sure you should be hiking when you are supposed to be home planning the logistics for the harriman winter trek. shame on you.

[RED-DOG]

I do a lot of winter hiking and a foot of snow wouldn't be enough for me to warant the use of snowshoes, the only place i actually used snowshoes was in the rockies 5+ feet, i hiked in the GSMNP in 3 feet i just put my microspikes on and hike through it.

but hey different strokes for different folks i quess

[Old Hillwalker]

I do a lot of winter hiking and a foot of snow wouldn't be enough for me to warant the use of snowshoes, the only place i actually used snowshoes was in the rockies 5+ feet, i hiked in the GSMNP in 3 feet i just put my microspikes on and hike through it.

but hey different strokes for different folks i quess

Ah Hah! A Postholer identified. I agree, a foot of snow is not really enough to really need snowshoes. But with drifting..... Anyway it does create postholes and eventually messes up the trail for those who follow. Not right away, but when the snow starts to consolidate is when it gets problematic and annoying. Not saying that you have it, but the attitude of "the heck with those who follow me" is one of the attitudes certain thru-hikers have that is messing up the trail experiance for those in the future. I'll just toss my trash under the shelter or in the fire pit, cause I'll never be back.

[Connie]

The "drifts" are a danger.

"Real" snowshoes must be for your weight, plus the weight of your pack.

I don't like the risk. I would rather have use ice axe, or such, to probe for depth.

I would think "postholes" would be a "help".

The one "breaking trail" is doing the work: step on the "platform" of the "posthole" and have an easier hike.

[Another Kevin]

i'm not sure you should be hiking when you are supposed to be home planning the logistics for the harriman winter trek. shame on you.

Sorry, it's when my hiking partner was going!

This weekend's outing is a trip where I'm very, very glad to have a partner who's a better winter mountaineer than I am. This is the section beyond where you turned back on the Escarpment Trail, so you know what the trail is like. I think it's safe to say that it's "challenging." "Strenuous," even. The north side of Blackhead, where the Escarpment Trail goes, crosses over into "difficult." We're not planning to do that. It's Class 4 in the summer, WI2/M4 in winter. I've scrambled it in summer, so I know that doing it in winter is beyond my current skills - I'm rusty at this stuff. We're going at it from the west. We expect to be able to snowshoe up to about 3600 feet, but then there's an exposed ridge that's likely to need crampon work, maybe even some German technique. Then back into snowshoes for the last leg in the balsam forest to the summit.

About all I know about the Harriman logistics so far is that there's likely one hiker coming from far away and arriving on Friday, and Teacher is talking about showing up on Saturday. I'll most likely meet her and Snacktime in Doodletown and hike up to West Mountain from there - on the 1777W trail over to the A-T if there's enough snow to ski (leaving the Doodletown bridle path for the the X-C skiers) and on the bridle path to the A-T otherwise. The Suffern-Bear Mountain trail has more scrambling, and I don't want to inflict scrambling in potentially icy conditions on that pair. I'm comfortable on microspikes, but Teacher will be borrowing my daughter's spikes and Snacktime will be borrowing a pair of mine. I have an older pair that's still serviceable, but won't be much longer - you can only resharpen them so many times, and I'm running out of steel. I can use those while he wears my new ones.

Lou wants to show off the new section of trail from Beechy Bottom to Seven Lakes Drive. I'm curious. I know what the old one was like.

We have a big group, so I suspect that we can have cars spotted at the Dunderberg, Doodletown, and Anthony Wayne trailheads as well as at Bear Mountain (and maybe even Seven Lakes Drive). If we do short loops (which can explore The Timp/Bald Mountain/Dunderberg, the Spiral Railway, the Cornell and Edison mines, Doodletown, Bear Mountain, or the Twin Forts) then the weaker hikers will never be more than a couple or three miles from somebody's car.

If we split up - and with a big group, that might be a good idea, except for party times - some of the stronger hikers might want to spend a night down at Big Hill and come up to West Mountain from there, checking out the Jackie Jones fire tower on the way, of course. Pingyp can be tricky if it's icy, but I can give directions for a workaround on old woods roads.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Kevin, I thought the plan had changed to our parking at Rt 9W, shuttling to Anthony Wayne and hiking to the shelter. Then hiking from the shelter to the car via Doodletown on day #2. Is Just Bill coming for certain on Friday?

[Another Kevin]

Teacher, you see how confused I'm getting. Too much to keep track of. Fortunately, with hikers, these things have a way of working out.

I'd be fine with meeting you at Anthony Wayne instead. I just forgot which direction you were looking to hike!.

I'm not 100% sure of Just Bill's current plans. If he wants to come out on Friday I can make a 4-day weekend of it, still meet you at Anthony Wayne, or Doodletown, whichever. Hiking down a couple of miles from the shelter is no big deal.

[Tipi Walter]

I do a lot of winter hiking and a foot of snow wouldn't be enough for me to warant the use of snowshoes, the only place i actually used snowshoes was in the rockies 5+ feet, i hiked in the GSMNP in 3 feet i just put my microspikes on and hike through it.

but hey different strokes for different folks i quess

This is pretty much how we roll here in the Southeast. I never use snowshoes. 3 feet of snow is exhaustively tormenting when climbing up a mountain with a 75 lb pack, but I've done it and lived to talk about it. You're right, microspikes are all I need. 3 feet of snow is deep, about waist deep, and then the backpacking becomes more a swimming event.

Ah Hah! A Postholer identified. I agree, a foot of snow is not really enough to really need snowshoes. But with drifting..... Anyway it does create postholes and eventually messes up the trail for those who follow. Not right away, but when the snow starts to consolidate is when it gets problematic and annoying. Not saying that you have it, but the attitude of "the heck with those who follow me" is one of the attitudes certain thru-hikers have that is messing up the trail experiance for those in the future. I'll just toss my trash under the shelter or in the fire pit, cause I'll never be back.

I don't buy this. In fact, I much prefer to backpack a trail with previous hikers making their postholes. I follow Connie's post below---breaking trail is always the most arduous position of a hiking group, the ones behind have an easier time. The only ones who seem to hate it are cross country skiers. The LAST THING ON MY MIND when winter backpacking is the problems hikers behind me will have with my postholes.

The "drifts" are a danger.

"Real" snowshoes must be for your weight, plus the weight of your pack.

I don't like the risk. I would rather have use ice axe, or such, to probe for depth.

I would think "postholes" would be a "help".

The one "breaking trail" is doing the work: step on the "platform" of the "posthole" and have an easier hike.

Postholes are a help, especially when climbing or descending tough hills with steep climbs. Of course, these postholes consolidate as Old Hillwalker says and they often freeze solid into ice holes but here is where it's important to carry microspikes.

[atraildreamer]

Don't have much need for snowshoes here in RI, but a little comedy is always welcome! Still laughing as I type this!

[Tipi Walter]

Don't have much need for snowshoes here in RI, but a little comedy is always welcome! Still laughing as I type this!

Hitler does have a way of presenting a good argument.

[Old Hiker]

I have NO experience in deep soft snow. The only snow I was in was 5 years of hard packed drifts in North Dakota. I'm from West Texas. I defer to the interweb experts.

HOWEVER:

I don't care WHAT the subject is. Every time I see it argued with that Hitler clip, I literally laugh until I cry. I just woke my wife up laughing. I'm glad I went to the end with the kittens dying line. OMG. I just hope Hitler (where ever he may be) has to see each of these clips as part of his cosmic judgement.

[Connie]

Tipi Walter, "Postholes are a help, especially when climbing or descending tough hills with steep climbs. Of course, these postholes consolidate as Old Hillwalker says and they often freeze solid into ice holes but here is where it's important to carry microspikes."

If more than one, we take turns "breaking trail".

[Tipi Walter]

Tipi Walter, "Postholes are a help, especially when climbing or descending tough hills with steep climbs. Of course, these postholes consolidate as Old Hillwalker says and they often freeze solid into ice holes but here is where it's important to carry microspikes."

If more than one, we take turns "breaking trail".

One time on a winter trip in March 2010 I got swallowed up by a series of high elevation blizzards in the mountains of NC and was camped a thousand feet below a 5,300 mountain when the storm started.

The next day I knew the snow was too deep to posthole that 1,000 feet to the top so I got out my map and pulled an exhausting 12 mile hike to a gated snowy forest road and spent all day hiking it to other points and finally reached another trailhead at Beech Gap at around 4,600 feet.

Lo and behold! After all day of breaking trail and postholing, who do I see in Beech Gap but a group of backpackers breaking trail and I gleefully hiked up to them and told them I'll hike behind and let them break trail for me, for a change. Sweet relief. Here's the trip---

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpa...l-on/i-C8vtQhN


Here's the 12 mile postholing hike on the forest road to get to Beech Gap.


Glorious Trekkers Unite! I was about used up but these kids plowed the way and helped me get to my next campsite 3 miles further. Luckily this part of the trail was wind-blown and not nearly as deep as other parts.

[fiddlehead]

Tons of snow travel scenes in our video from our Triple Crown hike in 2001/2002 shown here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZUl...6PHXbEXKPXYF0g

Postholing scenes galore at: 2:52 4:58 14:30 18:16 18:30 (draggin pack to make us lighter) 21:12 21:30 21:45 22:50 23:40

Lots of other snow scenes if you care to watch the whole thing as we traveled from Oct through to August.
Colorado was pretty much all snow.