Navigating with a compass & map or GPS

[wi11ow]

While I realize the AT is well marked; I would like to learn how to navigate using a compass and map and/or GPS over the winter.
How did everyone who has these skills learn?
Is there a recommended book or class to take?
Any certain compasses/maps or GPS systems you would recommend and why?
Also, what is everyones preference and pros/con of using a map with compass vs GPS to go from waypoint to waypoint?

[Odd Man Out]

Here's a recommendation in favor of maps/compass

http://andrewskurka.com/2012/why-bac...are-overrated/

[TNhiker]

i learned in scouts 30 years ago but, other than the basics, have lost much of that learning by not using one for years............as the trails in the GSMNP are so easy to follow and what not............

however, ive used it a few times in the wilderness areas around the Park, most notably the time i got lost and had to spend an extra night out in the mitchell lick area of the snowbird wilderness........the trails in the wilderness areas often are not as easily marked or easily followed........

ive had this book for years, but still havent sat down and read and learned from it..........the book has been around for decades and alot of people have used it to learn...

http://www.amazon.com/Expert-Map-Com...ning+a+compass


but, truthfully---the better way to learn a compass is to have someone teach ya...........

look into hiking clubs in your area along with orienteering clubs (maybe at a college?) or ask your local outfitter............



not sure if about GPS as ive never used one to hike..........my biggest concern is that the GPS wouldn't have the maps for the areas i am most likely to get lost in.......my dad offered to buy me one after the getting lost episode but i have a feeling the one i would want to be would be a nice chunk of change and not sure if that a use of good money as opposed to me buying printed maps.........

so, i keep buying maps and the collection increases........but, i like looking at maps to plot my routes and see how the trails look in relation to one another........in fact, for this parents visit that im doing this week----i brought a handful of maps to start planning new year out.....

[Connie]

It helps to have a pack strap compass to look at from time to time, to get used to the idea of N S E W where you are. Glance at a map. Look at from where you came. Turn around and look, don't just glance over your shoukder. It looks quite different from the other direction. Make note of landmarks: a tall tree, an unusual tree stump, a ridgeline, a prominent feature of the landscape. Look at the map. Is it that small lake? Is it that peak? Is it that mountain, or, that mountain? That is where you direction finding begins. Take a "sighting" on that mountain peak, or, that other mountain peak. The "bearing" is the direction in degrees on the face of the compass allowing for magnetic declination. Magnetic declination for a nearby town is available on the internet: enter name of the town and state magnetic declination. Write it, on the map. If you select a handheld compass with a marking for the offset of the magnetic inclination, it will be easier for orienteering.

Where can you get practical experience? Ideally, where there is convenient land and landscape features.

If you can find an orienteering organization, well and good.

If you can find a GPS "geo caching" group, go for it. It is good practice. They hide tokens, or, toys. It is fun.

Be sure to mark "waypoints" like car in parking lot, or, at trailhead, then a fork in the trail, or, a landscaoe feature. Especially, mark a waypoint for an "exposed" part of the trail, like a precipice. It is a safety factor, if thinking to hike back out in the night or fog.

Remember, you don't make a bee line for your car. The map may show a ravine, a ridge, or, a pond. That is why we have topographic maps.

[squeezebox]

Here in St. Louis 1 of the outfitters does a basic orienteering class every so often. It's basic stuff but that's where you have to start. They do orienteering meets every so often. A few of those should boost ones confidence.
I've read enough trail journals where some one took a wrong turn coming out of a shelter back to the AT, and didn't figure it out for an hour or 2. Bring a compass, take a reading every time you leave the trail. Without a map you're just somewhere out in the woods.
" the AT is marked well enough, I don't need a map" Well is it? everywhere?

[Traveler]

You can learn how to use a map and compass with any number of specialized books. NOLS Wilderness Navigation being one that I have seen and found pretty good. It's not hard to do though in my view, if you don't use those skills on occasion they will fade away. This book is a staple product at REI, EMS, and other outdoor retailers or through Amazon and other book retailers.

I developed the habit of using the map and compass for most navigation work and use the GPS to confirm position and track routes. While I like GPS and use it a lot in driving, flying, and on the water, when it fails (and it will at some point via lack of power, inability to get a signal, or damaged) if you don't have a map and/or compass, you could be in serious trouble depending what you have wandered off into.

[Sarcasm the elf]

While I realize the AT is well marked; I would like to learn how to navigate using a compass and map and/or GPS over the winter.
How did everyone who has these skills learn?
Is there a recommended book or class to take?
Any certain compasses/maps or GPS systems you would recommend and why?
Also, what is everyones preference and pros/con of using a map with compass vs GPS to go from waypoint to waypoint?

I first learned map and compass in scouts, then didn't use it for years and forgot how. When I got back into it, I first watched the very basic instructional videos on REI's site, then found some more indepth videos on youtube. After that I found someone who was more experienced and was willing to teach me (fellow member Another Kevin) and hiked with him in the Catskills for a few days working on navigation skills and bagging a few peaks.

GPS is much more foolproof, but it is clunky and it's usefullness is limited because of how quickly it goes through batteries. If you are going for an offtrail hike in the Catskills or the 'daks, then it is a great tool, but you can't leave it turned on the entire day unless you have enough spare batteries with you.

As you mentioned, most of the A.T. is generally marked well enough that it doesn't warrant using GPS. I have needed to use map and compass navigation on the A.T. in the winter for brief periods, but only after a recent snowfall when there were no footprints to follow and usually I am able to get back on track fairly quickly

[Damn Yankee]

Here is a website for powerpoint learning.

http://www.armystudyguide.com/conten...on/index.shtml

here is the field manual

http://www.uvm.edu/~goldbar/FM3_25.26.pdf

[kayak karl]

this is a 7 part series and very easy to understand. Green Mountain Compass

[garlic08]

I learned backcountry navigation with map and compass mainly by going out and hiking and skiing (winter can get challenging when fresh snow obscures all tracks, including your own when you're on your way out). I got a little concerned a few times and then I would pick up a book about mountaineering at the library and read up on some skills. If they didn't take, I'd get the book again next season and repeat until I got it down. I picked up some more map skills from a career in engineering, then a career in wildland firefighting, which really honed the compass skills.

By the time I hiked the CDT, I was pretty comfortable in sustained off-trail travel. I even learned to navigate by fence line in large parts of the West, since fence lines, some of them very old and barely there, often follow section lines on the maps. In range country, it's a good way to use man-made features shown on the map to track your progress, even without a compass. In the woods, the Forest Service and BLM provide bearing tree tags along their roads which mark section corners. You can pick those out with a sharp eye and pinpoint your location on your map. If you're in a maze of unmarked forest roads in old mining/logging areas, that's a nice skill to have. I learned it by hiking with a retired FS ranger.

If you like maps, that's most of what you need. But your most important skill is general awareness of where you are, what landmarks you've passed, what the map says you should be coming up on, what the trail should look like on the way out. Looking back often is as important as looking forward on a hike, since it's easy to miss an unmarked "Y" junction on the way in and you get confused when you do see it on the way out.

Off trail in unfamiliar terrain, I use my hourly watch chime to make me sit down and mark my best estimate of where I am on the map, then I scale off the distance from the last hourly mark. That way I get frequent reality checks as well as a good feeling of my pace in different types of terrain, and an ability to predict where I should be in the next hour and at the end of the day. That helps in finding likely campsites, too. On days like that, the watch is a more important navigation tool than the compass.

If you ever find yourself thinking the stupid map is wrong, you are lost. Everybody's done that. Sometimes the best thing to do is sit and rest for ten minutes, ease the growing panic, and then study the map and terrain with a clear head and develop a plan for figuring out where you are.

[Starchild]

My recommendation is to try geocaching. All three skills can be honed as you enjoy the game. The compass skill becomes very important in days where you are not getting a good gps reading. You basically circle the location and draw lines towards the cache. Where they intersect will be closer to the cache then just a single reading.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I've read enough trail journals where some one took a wrong turn coming out of a shelter back to the AT, and didn't figure it out for an hour or 2. Bring a compass, take a reading every time you leave the trail. Without a map you're just somewhere out in the woods

Getting turned around when stepping on or off of trail is a very common problem.

A helpful tip for stepping off trail when you are hiking long distance is to remember "left in left out, right in right out." Each night when you get to a shelter remember which direction you turned off the trail towards the shelter, the next morning when you step back onto the trail, turn in that same direction and you will be walking the same way that you were the night before.

[RangerZ]

[QUOTE=Damn Yankee;1932200]Here is a website for powerpoint learning.

http://www.armystudyguide.com/conten...on/index.shtml

here is the field manual

http://www.uvm.edu/~goldbar/FM3_25.26.pdf[/QUOTE


My recommendations exactly, short of joining up.

Every time that I get misoriented my wife reminds me that the Army spent tens of thousands of dollars training me to get around.


First in, last out.

[Odd Man Out]

Getting turned around when stepping on or off of trail is a very common problem.

A helpful tip for stepping off trail when you are hiking long distance is to remember "left in left out, right in right out." Each night when you get to a shelter remember which direction you turned off the trail towards the shelter, the next morning when you step back onto the trail, turn in that same direction and you will be walking the same way that you were the night before.

Yes, I am always a little worried in the AM when starting out. I am always looking for something familiar (indicating that I am going the wrong direction) and I feel relived when I see something that I know for sure that I did not pass the day before (indicating that I am going the right direction).

[Connie]

This is where the little packstrap compass is helpful: glance at the little compass. I am walking North. Okay, stepped East off the trail, looking for a little privacy. Okay, the trail is West. I was going North.

That is an oversimplification: the trail has to go around: the trail is going West. I will step off the trail North. The trail is South. Back on the trail, I am going West.

Now, look at the compass ring with degrees. Put the little arrow pointer the direction you are walking on the trail. I am stepping off the trail at 90-degrees. The backtrack to the trail is opposite 90-degrees. See straight across that ring with the degrees marked. That is the way back to the trail.

How is all this: hold the compass level. When the inner compass stops moving. Rotate your own position holding the compass around until the compass points North (corrected North, or not, for stepping off the trail). Holding steady, momentarily, now you see.

This is the first skill, for hiking. Because you needed a little privacy, to pee, all the brushy place around there looks alike.

[MuddyWaters]

The problem with map and compass, is it isnt all that great if 1) you dont know where you are, 2) you cant see distant landmarks. You cant see anything in the woods. 3) dead reckoning off trail in the appalachian mtns would be very innaccurate over long distance because you cannot maintain travel in straight line for any distance.

But, you do need the skill. The best advice, is to stay "found" at all times by paying attention.

I keep a small compass on my watch. From general direvtoon of travel on trails, can tell where you are on map if keep up with it periodically. Also verifying direction of side trail intersections and making sure take correct ft orks, etc.

[Connie]

I like a sighting compass, next. I am able to negotiate terrain with a Sunto M9 Wrist Compass, with sighting slot, and topographic map.

I suggest that is adequate map and compass skill, unless you are crossing an expanse of prairie, for example: off by part of 1-degree is off course.

For the most part, "triangulation" using landscape features with a topographic map locates my position, if I "lost track" from neglect to keep track of my position. Did I arrive at that map feature: a fork in the trail, a water source, a shelter? That is the most basic "location" skill.

I was taught to use triangulation, if I was lost: so we practiced "lost".

Do you see, in my remarks, how I keep referring compass, map, GPS to a practical consideration?

I have seen map and compass training that completely loses sight of the practical considerations.

edit: Muddy Waters has got it right: he is telling you how to stay "found".

[atraildreamer]

The problem with map and compass, is it isnt all that great if 1) you dont know where you are, 2) you cant see distant landmarks. You cant see anything in the woods. 3) dead reckoning off trail in the appalachian mtns would be very innaccurate over long distance because you cannot maintain travel in straight line for any distance.

But, you do need the skill. The best advice, is to stay "found" at all times by paying attention.

I keep a small compass on my watch. From general direvtoon of travel on trails, can tell where you are on map if keep up with it periodically. Also verifying direction of side trail intersections and making sure take correct ft orks, etc.

GPS is nice. I plan on getting one soon, but I would still have a map and compass with me. I you can't read and use a map and compass the how can you understand what the GPS is telling you?

[Feral Bill]

The key skill is translating what you see around you to what you see on the map, and the reverse. This takes practice, and plenty of it. Get maps of your local area, and constantly refer to them as you roam about, until making the translations is second nature. You and also take a try of drawing your own maps of places you go or even places you imagine. The goal is to develop a literacy in map use. Some people find this more challenging than others. And do play with a simple compass as well. With the resources cited above, you will be fine.

[Dogwood]

While I realize the AT is well marked; I would like to learn how to navigate using a compass and map and/or GPS over the winter.
How did everyone who has these skills learn?
Is there a recommended book or class to take?
Any certain compasses/maps or GPS systems you would recommend and why?
Also, what is everyones preference and pros/con of using a map with compass vs GPS to go from waypoint to waypoint?

I already had some of the rudimentary basics down from Boy Scouts learning through a hands on approach but in a medium sized group setting where many specific questions from younger individuals simply couldn't be comprehensively entertained in a sometimes rushed feeling time frame. Those BS experiences had me wanting to know more craving a setting where a knowledgeable passionate patient teacher would communicate clearly to me personally(or 3-4 person group size) on my level answering my specific individual orienteering questions as I inquired. I'm a fast learner just by self studying from a book or website so I added to my orienteering skills that way while also practicing outside in somewhat limited east coast forested trail settings. I then took two map and compass orienteering classes at REI, a Basic and Advanced class. Both times they were small classes(REI limits the class size) and both had multi day components - a couple hrs in the classroom( usually about 3-4 hrs) and a day(a few hrs to a full day) in the field practicing. In those REI classes I always had more than one teacher. ie; with the small class size and two teachers I was able to have all my questions answered. I'd recommend those classes at REI IF they are all organized as my experiences were! REI also offers GPS classes. I have no experience with those classes and limited knowledge about GPS. Then,my skills got better by involving myself on two excursions with sport orienteering teams. http://www.us.orienteering.org/orien...kills-training I wasn't great at this but my skills improved. Now, I practice in a great variety of terrain and settings. I still, sometimes, get disoriented momentarily though.

In summary, based on what you stated basically following this order:

1) find a simple Basic orienteering book or website you like. Read through. Play with it. Practice what you can.

2) Consider a hands on class like the Basic REI Map and Compass Orienteering class. Others in your area may offer hands on small group classes as well so don't limit yourself to only what REI may offer.

3) Practice preferably locally(in town even!) before your AT hike.

When I worked in Buffalo for about six months I was always attempting to free up time to go out with the Rochester Orienteering Club. For whatever reasons I never hooked up with those in Rochester. They have outings. I'm sure those folks can steer you locally in the right direction quite possibly offering exactly what you desire locally. http://roc.us.orienteering.org/abouttheclub.shtml

The AT is the easiest trail to orient on than any other trail/route I've ever stepped a foot upon. It's a hiking interstate. Blazes exist an average of every 140 yds(420 ft). Talk about hiking by the blazes! But, orienteering skills are great, and sometimes absolute necessary skill, to have that could very well serve you and others well beyond an AT hike.