FYI - Hiker Heaven closing

[enyapjr]

FYI - Hiker Heaven is closing... see <http://on.fb.me/1yYKGVw>...

Closing possibly precipitated by some specific post replies in <http://on.fb.me/1C1rf29>...

A sad day, indeed.

[Linesman]

Sad. They did things right. Hiker heaven helped me immeasurably on my thru. Met some good friends in their yard and trailers. Small bottlenecks of hikers are important to forging happiness and cohesiveness in the community, not bad things.

Hopefully she will reconsider, seems like an emotionally charged decision, someone with a strong dedication to the trail being accused baselessly by bad Yogi of damaging it.

[imscotty]

Wow, that is an ugly mess. Clearly emotions are running high on the PCT FB page and I do not want to get tangled up in that tar baby.

That said, I think that it is worth having a general discussion on the impact 'Hiker Feeds', 'Kick Offs' and 'Water Caches' are having on the trail. Clearly this as been a year when the problems of both the AT & the PCT being loved to death are coming to a head. My personal inclination is to the belief that hikers should be able to 'take care of themselves' and that well intentioned 'Trail Angels' may actually be causing harm to the trail and the hiking experience.

[imscotty]

I could not find Yogi's original; comment to put all this in perspective. Does anyone have a link?

[Malto]

I really enjoyed meeting Donna and Jeff in '10 and '11. She had a great operation that provided a break just at the right time on the trail. Unfortunately, times are changing and quaint little gatherings and restful little breaks are neither quaint or restful due to the increasing numbers.

I was wondering what drama Jester was referring to on Facebook. It's a sad mess but given a couple of the personalities involved, not too surprising. Classic case of a dis functional family.

[Linesman]

Yogi was pretty out of line, lashing out against Donna for saying the KO is not LNT. First of all, Yogi shouldn't trusted on issues of overcrowding - she profits off it. As far as I read, Yogi called Donna out for creating a bottleneck; Donna quickly made a post saying Hiker Heaven's closed.

Personally, I've never felt the desire to attend the Kick Off. Seems like a bunch of newbs listening to oldsters pontificate in one of the more ugly spots on the trail. Someone on FB suggested a reunion style event further north ala trail days - sounds good to me.

That said, the whole "loved to death" concept is hard for me to grasp. Never seen it in 6000 miles. The more people out there living simply and appreciating all of nature has to offer, the better, imo. I'll be happy if numbers double on both trails.

edit: I agree with scotty though, trail angeling is unnecessary and probably damages the experience, when it's given out generally.

[Miner]

Donna has been anti-kickoff for more than 10 years for creating the herd, impacting small town services and trail angles. And it is true that the herd is in violation of the regulations governing the wilderness areas in SoCAL that the trail passes through (party size, too many camping in one spot, etc). There was also concern that the one permit to rule them all could be killed by the various land management agencies in favor of obtaining a local permit in each area where the agency can better control the numbers entering on a given day. Donna has been very consistent in this stance in all that time and it is pretty well known to people who have been around in the community for awhile. So I'm not sure why people who have stayed with the Saufley's more than once would suddenly have a problem with Donna's expressed view. I have noticed that certain long time high profile members posts and comments in the last 2-3 years have had a more negative tone and more critical of people and things then what they were in the 10 prior and it almost seems like a different person and it really has me scratching my head.

I really enjoyed my stay at Hiker Heaven in 2009 and sent the Saufley's a Christmas card after I finished thanking them for their help. Due to the lack of services in Aqua Dulce, Hiker Heaven was a great location for resting up and many a hiker has come into the place beat up needing a place to recover. The idea of doing a PCT hike and not being able to stop by Hiker Heaven just doesn't seem like it would be the same hike. But given the huge number of hikers in the past few years and the restrictions on numbers allowed to stay that were required to be implemented, I guess many hikers the past few years never did get to experience that. But they were still able to clean up there and get a box. It's a shame that yet another trail angel is no longer hosting hikers. That makes 3 out 4 trail angels I stayed with that no longer host (I never stayed with the Andersen's so I'm not counting Casa de Luna).

[Miner]

Well, if I could edit my post, I'd probably remove half of what I wrote above. When it comes down to it, none of us are directly involved and don't really know why the decision to shut down Hiker Heaven was made so despite my or others desires to understand it, we aren't likely to arrive at the correct answer. It is a shame and I think the community will loose out because of it. But as others mentioned, you can still hike the PCT without the help of trail angles so the trail endures.

[hikrgrl]

I couldn't find the original posts on FB, but the salient comments are here:

http://mailman.backcountry.net/piper...ry/075961.html

[Coffee]

I followed the post on FB and generally find the main FB PCT group very negative and political. PCT Class of 2015 has been much more useful. There is obviously some history behind the people involved and I think they should work it out offline. I'm making alternate plans for Agua Dulce.

Some related reading: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

[jawnzee]

Definitely a bummer made more bummer by the negative conversation surrounding it.

When I hiked the PCT I resupplied out of the grocery store in Agua Dulce with no problems.

[Malto]

Definitely a bummer made more bummer by the negative conversation surrounding it.

When I hiked the PCT I resupplied out of the grocery store in Agua Dulce with no problems.

The grocery was actually pretty good. Far better than others further up trail such as Castella.

[SCRUB HIKER]

Below is a link to screenshots of the relevant FB posts. Not pretty and I don't really know what Yogi was thinking. Donna has since made another post imploring people not to bash Yogi, and pointing out (rightly) that her guide is still the best thing you can read before your PCT hike.

http://imgur.com/a/LGxVO

As for Agua Dulce, the grocery store is great; it's just that there now won't be a good place to stay. I have no idea what's right after it, in terms of camping, because I had to skip up to Hikertown due to the Powerhouse Fire in 2013. 10 miles before it is the Acton KOA, which is fun but pretty f***ing trashy and costs money.

[5th]

Seems to me that it's the KO that needs to be discontinued.

[Mags]

The PCT is starting to get AT-like numbers from about 20 yrs ago. I have no dog in this fight,r other than to say that the PCT is in transition ; more and more of the "gratis" or low cost services to "for profit" services will be present. Much like the AT did in the mid-90s. When you have a modest amount of people, fire stationss, picnic shelters, church basements and similar can handle the people.

When the numbers start climbing, the free services simply can't afford to take in this many people.

"For profit" is not a bad thing by any means. A fair price for services means lodging, showers, laundry and resupply is in place where it would otherwise not be.

However, it is different from whet PCT hikers are used to. And there will be growing pains.

if I had the money or the desire, there would be a good opportunity for a hiker hostel or two or three in Agua Dulce. The Shaw's were for-profit and I think many people have fond memories of this place.

all things change. Change is not bad, but most people don't like it.

[Miner]

if I had the money or the desire, there would be a good opportunity for a hiker hostel or two or three in Agua Dulce. The Shaw's were for-profit and I think many people have fond memories of this place.

Actually, Aqua Dulce couldn't support a real hostel. That section of the PCT doesn't attract much traffic outside of thru-hiker season in spring and fall (and not a lot in fall). The summer is just too hot for most people to even want to hike that section then. Hiker Heaven was only open during 2.5 months of spring and for a short time during the fall when the SOBOs came through, getting most of it's traffic in the 2nd half of May. For a short period of about 3 weeks, you get hundreds of people (more than Hiker Heaven could handle since about 2007 or 08 when they implemented the limit on the number that could stay). If you could figure out how to legally house them in a manner that they are pleased with you could make a nice chunk of change. But that just isn't enough for someone to make enough to stay open unless they had other income for the rest of the year.

[Mags]

Hiker Heaven was only open during 2.5 months of spring and for a short time during the fall when the SOBOs came through, getting most of it's traffic in the 2nd half of May. For a short period of about 3 weeks, you get hundreds of people (more than Hiker Heaven could handle since about 2007 or 08 when they implemented the limit on the number that could stay). If you could figure out how to legally house them in a manner that they are pleased with you could make a nice chunk of change. But that just isn't enough for someone to make enough to stay open unless they had other income for the rest of the year.

You are of course, right. A nice retirement/don't need full time employment deal at best. As you said, a nice chunk of change.

Maybe when the PCT gets more section hikers....

But, I do think you'll see more "for profit' hostels and such on the PCT as the years go on.

[postholer.com]

all things change. Change is not bad, but most people don't like it.

You're missing the point (intetionally) Mags. It's not change people have a problem with in this case, It was how it came about that is the problem.

Had Donna just annouced she was ending her services, hikers would have been disappointed, but they would have wished her well and that would have been the end of it.

You and Yogi are buddies. I get it. No one expects you to lambaste your friend. However, I've seen you call others out for what you deem unacceptable behavior.

You are disturbingly quiet on what was clearly an over the top rant towards the person who deserved it least, Donna Saufley. Yeah, rip Donna, good grief.

Your omittance of your friend Yogi's behavior in your post was not lost on some of us. We see the redirection Mags and it reflects directly on you.

-postholer

[Mags]

You're missing the point (intetionally) Mags. It's not change people have a problem with in this case, It was how it came about that is the problem.

??????

Wow..that's over the top. And wrong.

I really don't care about the squabbling between Donna and Yogi. Truly. You get two strong personalities and sparks fly. And I consider them both friends. It is why I am not taking "sides' in this little drama.

More importantly, I just think what happened is a sign of things to come in the future on this trail. For profit vs grassroots. It happened to the AT, it is going to happen to the PCT. I don't think it is bad, just inevitable.

Scott, as usual, you are trying to stir up stuff. Deflection? Egads.

In this case, I am honestly surprised by your tirade because it truly makes no sense.

I am not sure how saying "all things change. Change is not bad, but most people don't like it. is truly throwing stones at anyone. Did I mention Donna is a friend, too?

(EDIT: No, seriously, I am truly surprised by this tirade as I honestly did not have that it mind. Shrug..what are you going to do?)

Feel free to PM me if you'd like to continue this further. Thanks.

[Lyle]

I think I'll just go hike some little known trail. Unfortunately politics and drama seems to be invading all the big-name, popular ones - to the detriment of ones hike.

High Country Pathway... Sheltowhee Trace... River to River... Bruce... etc. etc. etc.