Dogs and Water on the trail

[2dogs1girl]

In an attempt to get a straight, honest answer and hopefully avoid offending anyone, here goes:
I plan on hiking with my 2 dogs next year and I am doing some research on how to be a responsible dog owner and have respectable dogs out on the trail. And for the most part, I have received some fantastic tips and advice for this forum!

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But one thing that I am struggling with is the concept behind not letting my dogs drink water out of the lakes and rivers and streams along the trail. Quite frankly, I have no desire to carry a water dish for them or filter water for them. I take them on trails all the time and make them responsible for finding their own water (obviously if I know there isn’t a water source around, I will pack water for them).
So if someone can please explain to me (logically, not irrationally) why it is important for me to keep my dogs out of the potential drinking water sources, I will respect the reasons and start training my dogs (to go against all animal instincts and not drink water when they are thirsty).
Any helpful insight here?

[Tuckahoe]

In many cases water sources are trickles piped to a small pool. And hikers are taking water from that source. I would be bothered if people or dogs were sticking their sweaty faces in the small sources of water.

If however we then talk about fast moving creeks or streams and large bodies of water with fast turn over then that doesn't bother me so much. Especially if folks are already likely to use it as a swimming hole.

[Sarcasm the elf]

The only real concern is the possibility of contaminating smaller water sources, as well as the "ick" factor that will rightfully annoy other hikers.

Don't worry about lakes and rivers, there is sufficient volume of water not to matter. For smaller decent size streams let the dogs drink downstream of where the trail intersects or where people get their water from.

Ground springs, small trickling brooks and standing waterholes are really the only places where a dog (or careless hiker) could muddy the water enough to cause a problem for other hikers, or possible create unsanitary conditions from slobber or filth from their bodies. In these cases, just leash them to a tree a small distance away, get some water from the source in your water bottle and then bring it to them and put it in their dish.

[FatMan]

Let them drink. If small source take them downstream from where hikers draw their water.

[Slo-go'en]

Many of the water sources on the AT are small springs which you have to use a cup to dip water out of. You never know if a spring is a flowing spring, a piped spring or a dipping spring until you get there. Many of these springs are a ways off the trail and down a steep hill, so always being a cup or pot just in case.

Even if you have a filter which you can pump directly out of the source with, it is a good idea to dip the water out of the spring into a separate container first, otherwise you'll stir up the sediment which will quickly clog your filter. I use a silnylon water bag which will hold a gallon of water. You do not want to make a trip to many of these springs twice, it's too much work. Obviously you need to keep your dogs out of these small sources.

But the big problem is as you get into the mid Atlantic states, the water sources get scarcer, farther part and harder to get to, just when your dogs need a lot of water because it is so blazing hot and humid out. This is a major reason why so few dogs and many hikers don't make it all the way through PA.

[HooKooDooKu]

I have no desire to carry a water dish for them ...

Many of the water sources on the AT are small springs which you have to use a cup to dip water out of.

You'll at least have to carry along something of a water bowl (there's various folding ones available) or plan to multi-purpose your cooking pot from time to time.

[ocourse]

I say let your dog drink from any source, for several reasons; It's not somebody else's job to ensure that no animal has sipped from my source. All kinds of critters (birds, lizards, skunks, raccoon, deer, bears, etc.) drink even at sources near shelters, even if they are boxed in or piped.

[Sarcasm the elf]

But the big problem is as you get into the mid Atlantic states, the water sources get scarcer, farther part and harder to get to, just when your dogs need a lot of water because it is so blazing hot and humid out. This is a major reason why so few dogs and many hikers don't make it all the way through PA.

Originally my hiking buddies and I would fill the dogs' bowls with water from our own bottles, but this ended up wasting a lot of water since they need to have entra water in the bowl to drink from and we weren't about to drink what they had left over. The best solution that we have found is to carry one of those circular plastic deli or chinese food containers and a wide mouth plastic bottle like a gatorade 1liter. When going through dry stretches, we fill the bottle for the dog and carry it. We then water the dogs by filling up the chinese food container so they can drink. When they're done we pour the water back out of the food container and back into the water bottle for later.

[July]

I say let your dog drink from any source, for several reasons; It's not somebody else's job to ensure that no animal has sipped from my source. All kinds of critters (birds, lizards, skunks, raccoon, deer, bears, etc.) drink even at sources near shelters, even if they are boxed in or piped.

Very good comment, I agree. Even at a small puddle source, when hiking with my dogs, they approach and first smell, then gently lap. No washing dishes and feet like I have seen hikers doing. Who knows the number of creatures that have drank, (and still swimming) in said source. YOU are responsible for what you put in your body, so approach you water source with enlightenment.

[mrcoffeect]

I say let your dog drink from any source, for several reasons; It's not somebody else's job to ensure that no animal has sipped from my source. All kinds of critters (birds, lizards, skunks, raccoon, deer, bears, etc.) drink even at sources near shelters, even if they are boxed in or piped.

well then sir by that logic i guess i have the right to take a dump in the water source if i like. it's not my job to ensure the next guy thru has clean drinking water.

[Trailweaver]

Here's something I'm surprised no one has thought of/mentioned: parasites in the water source that can infect your dog!! I rescued a dog in December that had obviously been on her own for some time. (She was approximately half the weight the vet estimates she should weigh, and you can see almost every bone in her body.) She had 3 major parasitic infestations, and two of those were water-sourced - ie: drinking from rainwater, puddles, creeks, etc. It was not a pretty sight, and it has been expensive to treat this condition. As you make your way north (or south), water will be scarce in some areas, and in my experience, dogs who are thirsty will drink from any water they come to when they find it. Consider it to be contaminated until you have treated it.

[Traveler]

In an attempt to get a straight, honest answer and hopefully avoid offending anyone, here goes:
I plan on hiking with my 2 dogs next year and I am doing some research on how to be a responsible dog owner and have respectable dogs out on the trail. And for the most part, I have received some fantastic tips and advice for this forum!

---

But one thing that I am struggling with is the concept behind not letting my dogs drink water out of the lakes and rivers and streams along the trail. Quite frankly, I have no desire to carry a water dish for them or filter water for them. I take them on trails all the time and make them responsible for finding their own water (obviously if I know there isn’t a water source around, I will pack water for them).
So if someone can please explain to me (logically, not irrationally) why it is important for me to keep my dogs out of the potential drinking water sources, I will respect the reasons and start training my dogs (to go against all animal instincts and not drink water when they are thirsty).
Any helpful insight here?

Probably the overarching issue here is to control your animals, period. This means keeping them from fouling water sources by walking into them and raising sediments, lifting a leg near by, etc. Fast moving water or large water bodies are a little different, but you should be aware that there are others behind you who may have a problem with the "yuck" factor. Be mannered and take your animals a little way downstream or away from the shoreline access for a drink or frolic in the water. Filtering water should be a concern as well. Dogs are susceptible to parasites found in water, much as people are or they can contact and carry illnesses to people, including; Campylobacteriosis, Leptospirosis, Salmonellosis, Toxoplasmosis, Ringworm, Tapeworm, Hookworm, and a few other nasty things. Even if the dog does not pick up these parasites, walking through the forest they can come into contact with feces or remains of animals having these parasites or illnesses and can carry it to the next water source they walk through. This in turn infects the water. Ergo the water issue.

As a concern, your comment that you "have no desire to carry a water bowl and require your dogs to find their own water", might be one you want to rethink. Water sources can become few and far between and/or located a ways from the shelters, so how do these animals get a drink once you are in camp? Do you intend to set them loose to find water on their own and return? That sets up for some unpleasant encounters with other hikers who may not fully appreciate the sudden appearance of a dog (wet dogs can be particularly unpleasant) getting into their food or gear, or worse, knocking over their water for a drink, which will send you back downhill to replace what they spill. Carrying their water and a collapsible bowl for them (or have them carry that load) so they can have full access to water when around people is the responsible course of action.

Perhaps most importantly, control your animals by voice command or if they don't behave well, by leash. Don't force others to have to deal with your animals getting into things. Of all the contentious people issues I have seen, dogs tend to be involved in the majority of these. When dogs are well behaved, don't jump on people, don't beg food or water, don't walk on peoples belongings, don't bark/whine incessantly, etc., they are a welcome addition to the trail. Good luck on your adventure pans.

[Starchild]

It's being a responsible dog owner and being respectful to other people and a good member of the hiking community.

Realize that the trail is not designed as a natural environment for your dog (therefor the dog should not use 'animal instincts' to do whatever it wants, but a instead a learned behavior appropriate for the environment it is in), In this case the environment is a trail made and maintained for human travelers. The dog should be trained in a way appropriate to this environment.

The physical problems and the ick factor go a long way and have been mentioned above, but it's just not cool to make people drink out of a dogie water bowl and that is what you are doing when you allow your dog to drink out of a water source that people will take from.


The Leave No Trace guidelines go a long way to set guidelines to preserve the quality of travel on trails.

LNT general guidelines for back country:
- Control pets at all times, or leave them at home.
- Respect other visitors and protect the quality of their experience.

LNT for AT travel:
- If you are hiking with a dog, be aware of its potential impact on animals and other hikers. Keep your dog leashed and under control at all times, and learn where dogs are prohibited. Ask permission of other hikers before bringing your dog into a shelter. If you find the shelter is crowded, be considerate and tent with your dog. Keep your dog away from springs and other drinking water sources. Bury your dog’s waste as you would your own.


http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiki...race-practices



But as I like to summarize LNT, it's respect for each other, the native animals and our common home, the earth.

[RED-DOG]

a responsible dog owner would carry a water dish and catch their water and let them drink from the dish instead of allowing them to stick their noses in the water source you know thats everbody's water source not just yours, everybody i have ever hiked with that had dogs carried a water dish and did not let their dogs get close to the water, i quess you'll allow your dogs to sleep in side the shelters too. if you can't be a responsible dog owner leave them at home

[2dogs1girl]

The only real concern is the possibility of contaminating smaller water sources, as well as the "ick" factor that will rightfully annoy other hikers.

Don't worry about lakes and rivers, there is sufficient volume of water not to matter. For smaller decent size streams let the dogs drink downstream of where the trail intersects or where people get their water from.

Ground springs, small trickling brooks and standing waterholes are really the only places where a dog (or careless hiker) could muddy the water enough to cause a problem for other hikers, or possible create unsanitary conditions from slobber or filth from their bodies. In these cases, just leash them to a tree a small distance away, get some water from the source in your water bottle and then bring it to them and put it in their dish.

Thank you so much for this. I now have a better picture of what water sources to expect and what I should be concerned about. It makes a lot of sense if there is only a little pool that could easily be contaminated. Very helpful!

[2dogs1girl]

a responsible dog owner would carry a water dish and catch their water and let them drink from the dish instead of allowing them to stick their noses in the water source you know thats everbody's water source not just yours, everybody i have ever hiked with that had dogs carried a water dish and did not let their dogs get close to the water, i quess you'll allow your dogs to sleep in side the shelters too. if you can't be a responsible dog owner leave them at home

Red-Dog, the whole goal here was to figure out the reasons behind not letting my dogs drink the water found on the trail and maybe that struck a nerve with you for some reason. I appreciate all the helpful responses! They let me know that I should carry a bowl for my dogs (they are, however, very good at drinking out of my water bottle, but that would mean they would be drinking my filtered water all the time), that I should expect some areas to not have plenty of water to drink and to plan ahead, and to take into consideration all the diseases my dogs can contract from the water. You guys have been very helpful! And sorry Red-Dog, I actually do my best to be responsible (hence the post to learn more) and my dogs will be accompanying me on the trail. And no, silly, I won't be sleeping in the shelters with my dogs =)

[2dogs1girl]

well then sir by that logic i guess i have the right to take a dump in the water source if i like. it's not my job to ensure the next guy thru has clean drinking water.

I have such a hard time with the "ick-factor" argument for keeping my dogs out of the water. I agree with July and Ocourse, everyone is in the nature! There is no control over what animals come into contact with the water, from the mice that inhabit the shelters carrying all sorts of diseases and going through the whole scope of wildlife that exists on the trails because animals are drawn to water. It isn't going to be the wonderful, britta-filtered and bottled water in the first place. So when a hiker gets grossed out that a dog has put her tongue (gently lapping) in the water, it kind of shows a bit of ignorance because there are a ton of animals putting their paws, tongues, butts in this water, including humans washing their feet and faces! But mrcoffeect, I agree with you as well. I would never let my dogs take a dump or pee in the water source. As a hiker or a dog owner, we all need to take care of the water sources. It is tough though, when we (as dog owners) hear people constantly complaining about inappropriate dog behaviors and rude dog-owners when there are plenty of hikers out on these trails dirtying up and contaminating the water sources 10x worse than what a dog would do to it. I would rather drink out of pool of water that my dog has gently lapped up with her tongue than drink out of a pool that people have washed their feet in. But then again, I am drinking water out of a pool of water in the wilderness, how clean do I expect it to be in all honesty?

[Starchild]

....It isn't going to be the wonderful, britta-filtered and bottled water in the first place.....

Actually to many natural water sources is much more wonderful then filtered and bottled. Many regard these natural water sources, and the taste, expecially springs, as near sacred and part of the experience, I've heard many times that this is some of the best tasting water that they have had.

The AT, especially down south has a abundance of great tasting springs that many drink w/o treatment.

It does seem from the rest of your post that you may not share this view, and perhaps you already find it kind of icky and perhaps that is why you are not understanding the icky factor of having your dog drink directly from it. If this is so I sort of understand your point of view, if you already view the water as 'not clean' and needing of treatment, the value of keeping your dog away from may not seem to make sense. But many others do not share your view of these water sources.

[Slo-go'en]

It does seem from the rest of your post that you may not share this view, and perhaps you already find it kind of icky and perhaps that is why you are not understanding the icky factor of having your dog drink directly from it. If this is so I sort of understand your point of view, if you already view the water as 'not clean' and needing of treatment, the value of keeping your dog away from may not seem to make sense. But many others do not share your view of these water sources.

Well, she is from central California and the type of water sources she is used to are probably a lot different then what she will experience here in the East along the AT. Whole different ecosystem and water situation.

I'm one of those who rarely filters water. The AT is blessed with some of the best water of any trail system. Heck, the water I drink here is piped directly out of a small stream up on the hill behind my cottage - and comes out of the tap at about 35 degrees this time of year

[2dogs1girl]

Well, she is from central California and the type of water sources she is used to are probably a lot different then what she will experience here in the East along the AT. Whole different ecosystem and water situation.

I'm one of those who rarely filters water. The AT is blessed with some of the best water of any trail system. Heck, the water I drink here is piped directly out of a small stream up on the hill behind my cottage - and comes out of the tap at about 35 degrees this time of year

Yes, indeed I will experience something new and I am very glad to learn as much as I can now so I know what sort of things to expect! Which will better prepare me and my dogs. Thanks for all your input!