Nervous Neoair User ...

[Coffee]

I just got back from the first trip where I took my new Neoair xlite which replaces my Prolite. The good news is that I think that the slightly higher R Value made a difference for me. In mid-high teens with the Neoair and my Marmot Helium, I wasn't toasty warm but I was OK. In similar weather with my Prolite I was pretty cold. So that's good. On the negative side, I was totally paranoid about the Neoair the entire trip. Maybe it is just being new to the pad but it seems SO fragile. And the idea of popping it and not having any insulation with temps that low made me too nervous. So I'm thinking of taking a supplemental closed cell foam pad the next time I go out where temps are expected to be anywhere near freezing or below but, of course, that entirely eliminates the weight benefits of the neoair. Am I being irrationally nervous here or is taking a second CCF pad smart in winter conditions?

[Nooga]

I love my Neoair. I always inflate it in the tent, so it can't come in contact with any branches or thorns. Carried my on AT thru hike and CT with no issues.

[Just Bill]

Neo-Air regular- probably needs a 1/4" CCF pad to fill it out anyway, unless your bag is really over temp it's about there at 30* or so. Add the pad and be good close to zero. Debate rages about under or over- I believe science favors under. Science is generally reliable.

Only concern I would have- the patch kit- as well as typical soapy water identification tricks- might be a bit tricky sub freezing.
That said- a few hundred nights later and no issues for me... I understand though as they are extra crinkly in the chilly weather!!

Like anything else- double the weight and go with a self inflating foam- or double your knowledge and learn how to build a debris bed or fire just in case.

[daddytwosticks]

I don't hike in really cold temps. I tried a Neoair xlite two years ago. Used it on several hikes. Although the pad was comfortable, I was a nervous wreck worrying when it was going to pop. I also didn't like having to inflate it every time...seems like it took a bunch of puffs to air it up. I went back to a Prolite pad. Not as comfortable but way more durable IMHO. Yes, I'm a weenie for going back to my Prolite, but I sleep more secure knowing the chances of it being punctures are way less than the Neoair. Hope you are able to make the Neoair work for you.

[Coffee]

I did have the patch kit but I doubt my ability to diagnose and fix a leak.

I might experiment with various thickness of CCF. One thing about going with much additional thickness is that upping the pad thickness from 1 inch (prolite) to the neoair (3 inches?) is that I have much less room for error before hitting the walls of my shelter and getting condensation on my sleeping bag. Seems like a game of inches for me at 6'1" with a long sleeping bag inside my Hexamid Twin...

[brancher]

Hoqw much do you weigh, OP? Reason I asked, I have srung a few mysterious leaks in my 10-yr-old Prolite, keep patching bue now the valve may be going south. So it may be time to go to Prolite heaven. I like the NeoAir Xlites, but I, too, wonder about it supporting my 180-lb carcass. Also, I am a tarp user at times (not sure which Ill take this time, maybe the tarp and maybe the Moment DW). do use a silnylon poncho for a groundcloth with the tarp, but still that is pretty thin.

Thoughts from either of you?

[Just Bill]

With a Hexamid- you've clearly saved enough weight and bulk to carry a serta mattress.
I don't mess around much in winter personally- a Z-lite SOL/egg crate style pad won't pop and I can always shape the snow a bit if needed. Might even give you a bit more toe room

As fer blowing them up- I found going back to buttless Pall-Mall helped me, fer some reason the filters mess me up more.

[Just Bill]

Hoqw much do you weigh, OP? Reason I asked, I have srung a few mysterious leaks in my 10-yr-old Prolite, keep patching bue now the valve may be going south. So it may be time to go to Prolite heaven. I like the NeoAir Xlites, but I, too, wonder about it supporting my 180-lb carcass. Also, I am a tarp user at times (not sure which Ill take this time, maybe the tarp and maybe the Moment DW). do use a silnylon poncho for a groundcloth with the tarp, but still that is pretty thin.

Thoughts from either of you?

Valves go, but if you are having a tough time, sometimes the actual seam de-lams. A dunk in a tub will diagnose the leak. If you got random bubbles- likely a delam issue in several spots...T-rest may help you out on that...otherwise there is a homeless fella somewhere who'd like it.

I weigh between 190 and 210 depending on things...
and I sleep on the women's one.

[Havana]

The only reason I'd take a CCF pad would be the added insulation though that may be a good enough reason in cooler weather. I've not used my xlite a whole bunch but I'm reasonably careful about where I pitch my tent and there's a few layers of material between it and rough objects on the ground. I don't have any fears of it getting popped by what's on the ground. I'd be a whole lot more careful if I were pitching in a shelter but an inspection for pointing objects will likely sort that out. Also, no trampoline practice on it.

[brancher]

Neo-Air regular- probably needs a 1/4" CCF pad to fill it out anyway, unless your bag is really over temp it's about there at 30* or so. Add the pad and be good close to zero. Debate rages about under or over- I believe science favors under. Science is generally reliable.

Only concern I would have- the patch kit- as well as typical soapy water identification tricks- might be a bit tricky sub freezing.
That said- a few hundred nights later and no issues for me... I understand though as they are extra crinkly in the chilly weather!!

Like anything else- double the weight and go with a self inflating foam- or double your knowledge and learn how to build a debris bed or fire just in case.

Thanks, I noticed you're selling some wares as well - I may need to look at your NeoAir - what do you mean by 'typical mylar wear'?

I already have doubled my knowledge, now I just need to halve my laziness......

[Turtle-2013]

The voice of experience: Just carry a small roll of duct-tape ... if the hole is too small to to find, blow it up once during the night, otherwise stick the duct-tape on it until you get home. Do a GOOD patch at home, where it is warm, but the tape will seal it fine on the trail. However, the REAL reason to use the Duct tape is that you can also attach the soles back to your boots, field repair a tarp, tent or tent pole, and just about anything else with it. Like MacGyver, I'd never be caught without a roll.

[Coffee]

Hoqw much do you weigh, OP? Reason I asked, I have srung a few mysterious leaks in my 10-yr-old Prolite, keep patching bue now the valve may be going south. So it may be time to go to Prolite heaven. I like the NeoAir Xlites, but I, too, wonder about it supporting my 180-lb carcass. Also, I am a tarp user at times (not sure which Ill take this time, maybe the tarp and maybe the Moment DW). do use a silnylon poncho for a groundcloth with the tarp, but still that is pretty thin.

Thoughts from either of you?

I weigh around 165 pounds and my Prolite has held up well. It is a little over 2 years old with probably 65+ nights of use. I actually was trying to sell it but will probably hold onto it now just in case.

[brancher]

Valves go, but if you are having a tough time, sometimes the actual seam de-lams. A dunk in a tub will diagnose the leak. If you got random bubbles- likely a delam issue in several spots...T-rest may help you out on that...otherwise there is a homeless fella somewhere who'd like it.

I weigh between 190 and 210 depending on things...
and I sleep on the women's one.

Yeah, they are pretty good - but 10 years and 600-800 miles later (not to mention bicycle or kayak trips), even I the quintessential tightwad, hesitate to ask T-Rest to spring for it....I do have my limits.

It's in the tub right now. I'm looking for leaks. plugged a couple not more litle bubbles, but I can hear stuff, you know? I mean, not like back in the 70's, but still....

[Just Bill]

Thanks, I noticed you're selling some wares as well - I may need to look at your NeoAir - what do you mean by 'typical mylar wear'?

I already have doubled my knowledge, now I just need to halve my laziness......

Answered you question in the other thread.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...-Sleeping-Gear

[MuddyWaters]

I have two xlites, with a lot of nights on them combined, with no problems.
I wouldnt give one to a 12 yr old to use however.

I always have stuff under mine. Maps, Raingear, ziplocks, etc. Whatever extra I have goes under it for additional protection. Also used with 1.0 cuben groundsheet, not polycro.

I have taken my 1/8" thinlight and used under it as well. Used that as groundpad to sit in cactus country, and spent an hour every evening picking needles carefully out of every inch of it before putting under my pad. Must have done a good job, no problems.

[Slo-go'en]

I've had a NEOAIR since '08 and it has a lot of miles on it now and yet to have an issue. Since mine is an original with no additional insulation, it is cold when the ground is cold.

[colorado_rob]

Even though in 6-7 years of heavy Neoair use I've never had a failure (I finally had a slow leak in a very old Neoair), I do always carry a 5 ounce 1/4" CCF pad in the winter both to add R value and to provide some insulation in case of a total pad failure. I lose the CCF in about April through October.

[CarlZ993]

I worry about my NeoAir Xlite. I've used it a lot. Used it exclusively on my 2013 thru-hike. Some hikes before & after. It hasn't sprung a leak yet. Been down to about 15 deg one night & wasn't cold on my back-side. I'm impressed with it. I'm sure to baby it (blow it up w/o any possibility of touching anything that could pop it; use a ground sheet in shelters, etc).

If it was a severe winter trip, I'd use the NeoAir All-Season w/ a close-cell foam pad.

Note: If you cowboy camp, make sure it doesn't blow away when you do a midnight pee run.

[Malto]

I did have the patch kit but I doubt my ability to diagnose and fix a leak.

I might experiment with various thickness of CCF. One thing about going with much additional thickness is that upping the pad thickness from 1 inch (prolite) to the neoair (3 inches?) is that I have much less room for error before hitting the walls of my shelter and getting condensation on my sleeping bag. Seems like a game of inches for me at 6'1" with a long sleeping bag inside my Hexamid Twin...

On my PCT thru I carried a piece of $£€£ air mat that had no fewer than a dozen leaks, most of them due to manufacturing defects in the heat seal areas. I got very good at finding those leaks. From Tahoe to Seiad Valley I carried a small bottle of kids bubbles. It did wonders in finding leaks. However in the end the mat was Swiss cheese and I learned to re inflate the mat while lying down.

upon my return I chunked that mat and bought an xlite and xtherm. I also was very cautious at first but they are tougher than they look. many of the elite hikers carry the xlite short. swami carried one on his 12 long hikes and he may have had two in the 14k miles. We fixed one that we found in my bath tub with a small dap of silicone which last at least the rest of the AT leg.

on the PCT I carried a thin CCF in SoCal to help protect the mat from sharpies. I slept in a bivy every night and by the time the hike was over I had a couple dozen very small pin holes in my bivy. Again a few daps of silicone cured those holes.

Bottom line, if I were heading out on the PCT I would carry my xlite unless I was starting early in which case I would take my xtherm thru Tahoe.

[Coffee]

Very reassuring for my upcoming pct. Thanks.