Which UL wind shell?

[Connie]

I use a windshirt anorak that way. It works very well.

It keeps from having to, frequently, add or remove insulated clothing or a rainshell substituting for a "windproof" that regulates core temperature better.

The trick is finding the right balance of wind resistance, breatheabity or ventilation, and resist a brief shower or provide for time to get into rain gear or get to shelter; some windproofs have a different fabric for underarms and sideseam panels to avoid sweat if you perspire a great deal.

For real rain, I have rain gear.

I find, as a practical matter, there is more frequent need for regulating core temperature in wind and weather, than for dealing with rain.

[Harrison Bergeron]

I'm not arguing against it, I'm just trying to figure out if I want one.

For the AT in late April, would you take your Houdini and leave your long sleeve tee shirt at home? Or would you take your Houdini IN ADDITION TO your long sleeve, just because you want the option of a lighter windbreaker to wear while hiking than your rain shell?

Houdini = 3oz
REI Sahara LS = 8oz

Houdini instead of Sahara = 1/3 of a pound off my back.

That's the argument that would cause me to lay out that $100 bucks.

[Gray Bear]

Food for though on the beathability of the Houdini vs Ghost Whisperer
https://www.prolitegear.com/site/win...nce-tests.html

Good find. Thanks for posting.

[Connie]

If I got that Inov-8 wind shell I linked one page back, I would get oversize to wear over my MonBell UL insulated vest and I would add DWR spray, if necessary, and use a LightHeart Gear Hoodie Pack Cover for real rain and forget a rain jacket entirely.

I have been leaning that way all along.

Nevertheless, a "righteous" windproof is more versatile for most weather for all outdoors activities and especially for hiking in the mountains.

However, I am in Montana: we usually have brief cloudbursts.

Everything I read, the AT can have days of rain.

If true, I would want an O2 rain jacket w/hood or w/o hood. If no hood, my Sou'wester hat.

[Connie]

The REI Sahara t-shirt won't do anything for you for windy conditions.

Furthermore, it is polyester.

Polyester takes on odor that will never wash out.

I wouldn't have polyester anything for a long hike.

[spidey]

Might help some, according to Mr. Nisley on BLP 35 cfm is optimal for a average backpacker.

Credit for this goes to Roman Vazhnov on BLP

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0

[Frye]

I own too many windshells probably. Montbell, Zpacks, Patagonia, Mtn Hardwear.

The Houdini isn't very good anymore, but I do find some use for the pullover in warmer months as for its weight it's the most comfortable against the skin. If you can get your hands on a pre-2012 version buy it.

Haven't had a chance to try the Zpacks jacket yet (Waiting for them to send it...) and have only used my Ghost Whisperer in colder months but found out today its CFM is next to nothing. It felt like plastic anyways.

The Montbell tachyon (hoodless) will probably be what I bring with me in 3 weeks or so when I start my thru.

[LogHiking]

I'm not arguing against it, I'm just trying to figure out if I want one.

For the AT in late April, would you take your Houdini and leave your long sleeve tee shirt at home? Or would you take your Houdini IN ADDITION TO your long sleeve, just because you want the option of a lighter windbreaker to wear while hiking than your rain shell?

Houdini = 3oz
REI Sahara LS = 8oz

Houdini instead of Sahara = 1/3 of a pound off my back.

That's the argument that would cause me to lay out that $100 bucks.

No worries I didn't take it as argumentative I was just trying to answer the question fully. Wind shirts are a pretty polarizing subject so I can't expect everyone to see the value I do. Regarding your houdini vs long sleeved T it is a tough question I'm not sure anything but experience can answer for you. With that said, if I were tasked with taking one of the other I would choose wind shirt. I think it will for the most part accomplish the job your t shirt can do, while being able to handle other jobs much better. With that said, there are surely times a t shirt might be more comfy than the wind shirt, I'm just not sure that small (to me) value add would make it worth it for me. If I were in your shoes I would either bring both, or just the wind shirt. For that kind of weather I don't bring a long sleeved t shirt personally.

I hope that helps. I got my Houdini at REI in case I didn't see the value in it so I could take it back. It now comes with on all of my trips but I suggest you do the same. Personal experience is king in the gear world.

[gbolt]

One of the benefits of a Windshirt is that it can serve as a midlayer or as a lighter weight option outer shell. I have hiked in a base, long shirt, Windshirt at 30* and been wonderful. The temp climbs during the day and the Windshirt comes off. You take a quick break or summit and are in the wind and it goes back on. It rains and you switch to an outer rain shell and hike on. It's late in the day, you haven't eaten dinner yet and you are worried about getting chilled so you put the windshirt on under the rain jacket. It is very versitile for the weight.

On top of that, I sleep in a hammock and it is a great piece to sleep in over a base layer to keep warm in the middle of the night.

Your question is a good one though, can a windshirt replace a fleece layer. Does the fleece layer replace the need for a long sleeve shirt other than the base layer. Those things I even have yet to work out. However, the weight of the windshirt is not as much of an issue, as the 11 or more ouces of fleece wear, in my opinion.

[Connie]

The windshirt is definitely not a first layer: it will feel cold because of conductive heat loss.

I thought: huh? So I went outside with my 200 wt. Icebreaker merino and Mountain Hardwear Ghost Whisperer Anorak. 41 F 25+ MPH wind plus wind gusts. Comfy cozy, not too warm for hiking I thought. Of course, I was basically only standing and walking around my backyard.

This is how a windshirt is worn. Standing. Walking. Except the strenuous hiking part. I already did that. No "clammy" feeling. The sleeves are long enough to cover my hands in my thumb-loop Icebreaker.

The Mountain Hardwear Ghost Whisperer Anorak breathes enough for me, although I will say I do not perspire heavily, so I can't give information about that. I suspect it is not a good choice for someone who perspires a lot.

[Harrison Bergeron]

No worries I didn't take it as argumentative I was just trying to answer the question fully. Wind shirts are a pretty polarizing subject so I can't expect everyone to see the value I do. Regarding your houdini vs long sleeved T it is a tough question I'm not sure anything but experience can answer for you. With that said, if I were tasked with taking one of the other I would choose wind shirt. I think it will for the most part accomplish the job your t shirt can do, while being able to handle other jobs much better. With that said, there are surely times a t shirt might be more comfy than the wind shirt, I'm just not sure that small (to me) value add would make it worth it for me. If I were in your shoes I would either bring both, or just the wind shirt. For that kind of weather I don't bring a long sleeved t shirt personally.

I hope that helps. I got my Houdini at REI in case I didn't see the value in it so I could take it back. It now comes with on all of my trips but I suggest you do the same. Personal experience is king in the gear world.

Thanks! That helps a bunch!

[full conditions]

Gang, I'm coming in late to this conversation and I have to admit that I only recently discovered the existence of wind shirts. My question revolves around my planned section hike on the AT this summer (June 5-July 10-ish) in Virginia. I have a very good traditional gortex rain jacket from Arcterx (about 12oz) which I used for years here in the Smokies - but, in the summer its usually counterproductive to wear while im actually walking (especially uphill) so now im thinking that a wind shirt may be the way to go for my summer section hike - lighter, more compact, and cooler. Any thoughts?

[Connie]

That is the purpose of a "windshirt" anorak or jacket.

It is not particularly for the hot weather, unless winds rip thru the mountains.

[fastfoxengineering]

I took the advice of people on here and got a 100 weight fleece layer and a wind jacket. I don't think there's a better combination for a thru hike. That combo to me is similar to the warmth of a synthetic jacket but more versatile and the same weight. About 8oz for fleece and 3oz for windshell. I then have my down hoody for camp. I like this combo better than any synthetic jacket because I can wear one or the other. Also, if everything gets wet. I'd rather have a soaked through shell and light fleece than soaked puffy insulation.

when I was looking at windshells, it didn't take long to see alot of the "pros" using them and really enjoying them.

I've also grown to dislike most rain gear. I only bring it cause its neccessary for cold and wet conditions. 75% of the time my windshell does the trick.

I'm starting to look into umbrellas as my rain gear.

[Just Bill]

I'm not sure what the issue, if any, is related to newer Houdini's. I believe I have both "years" at this point.

It's possible there is some confussion with the recently added items to the Houdini line. Pull over and 1/4 zip styles were added, as was a totally different fabric in the "Alpine Houdini"

As far as I know- not much has changed with the Houdini, or Patagonia's DWR formula.

[Frye]

I'm not sure what the issue, if any, is related to newer Houdini's. I believe I have both "years" at this point.

It's possible there is some confussion with the recently added items to the Houdini line. Pull over and 1/4 zip styles were added, as was a totally different fabric in the "Alpine Houdini"

As far as I know- not much has changed with the Houdini, or Patagonia's DWR formula.

The 2012 models and prior had an excellent CFM, the newer models are terrible in that regards. Richard Nisley over at BPL has posted some very insightful tables on various windshells. I believe the CFM for the 2013/14 models is 3.5 whereas the 2012 and prior was in the range of 35.

[Hot5nics]

Weird cause the link I posted earlier in the thread shows the current Houdini against 3 other great sellers and It was clearly the most breathable.
Just Bill - hope we are right. My Houdini will be here Monday, along with the Ultralight Down Shirt @ 50% off I could not pass up. Damn good deals making me spend money.

[rocketsocks]

Weird cause the link I posted earlier in the thread shows the current Houdini against 3 other great sellers and It was clearly the most breathable.
Just Bill - hope we are right. My Houdini will be here Monday, along with the Ultralight Down Shirt @ 50% off I could not pass up. Damn good deals making me spend money.

Can't go wrong with that set up.

[Frye]

Weird cause the link I posted earlier in the thread shows the current Houdini against 3 other great sellers and It was clearly the most breathable.
Just Bill - hope we are right. My Houdini will be here Monday, along with the Ultralight Down Shirt @ 50% off I could not pass up. Damn good deals making me spend money.

I like Prolite gear, I have a lot of respect for them, but their testing was very limited in regards to windshells. Flawed to be honest. Besides, look at the jackets they tested... Hardly a decent cross section of the market.

You might very well be happy with the Houdini, but it's not what it used to be and it's far from the best shell out now.

[Just Bill]

I like Prolite gear, I have a lot of respect for them, but their testing was very limited in regards to windshells. Flawed to be honest. Besides, look at the jackets they tested... Hardly a decent cross section of the market.

You might very well be happy with the Houdini, but it's not what it used to be and it's far from the best shell out now.

Richard over at BPL is generally a pretty though guy- but I guess I missed that one along the way.
That said, not knowing his results I've been happy with the jacket overall in real life.

My initial thought- perhaps the jacket "outta the box" performs differently after a wash or two. It definitely looses most of it's "new" after a trip or two. Perhaps Patagonia's newer DWR is the culprit and needs a bit of softening.

But again- the lab is the lab- hard to argue with it if the test was sound.
And again- the field is the field- hard to argue with something you are happy with.

Despite the Prolite test- I agree- there are many options now in this category- all of them generally very good.
What was the "worst" on the wind test- 2mph in a 100mph wind? So 2% gets by in an unrealistic situation? Not too bad...

On the flipside- the Houdini will wet out in 20 mins of good rain at the shoulders. It's not a raincoat- none of them are. But it does hold up to a light mist for an hour or more- which is what I like.

There are lighter, there are probably better this or thats... I found the Houdini to be the best balance of-
Comfort- you can wear the Houdini comfortably all day next to your skin.

Features-The full zip is handy- it's easy to slip on and off while moving. I personally find the Patagonia hood to be one of the best fitting/functioning. The small pocket isn't much, but you I use it here or there. Sleeve cuffs fit tight enough but loose enough to pull the jacket up to elbows if you over heat.

Weight- four ounces- light enough.

DWR- a very good and generally proven one.

Brand- Excellent warrantee, and a conscious company worth spending money on IMO.
There is a bit of Patagonia magic too- it just seems to work better with their pieces.

Seriously though-
At some point- they are all a 7-15d fabric with a DWR.
Do not buy a "waterproof" windshell- DWR only.
Pick the one that fits you best, after that consider the features.
As long as you don't pick some no-name brand that you trust- they will all do the job.