Tarp + tent?

[pauly_j]

Hi guys,

I'm planning on thru-hiking the AT in 2016 and looking at getting my gear together.

Shelter-wise, I was thinking about having a lightweight tarp as well as a tarptent (and maybe even an additional footprint for security). Am I being completely stupid by looking at this? My thinking is that (in the case of rain) the tarp can go up first and create a dry area to then pitch the tarptent without me or all my gear getting soaked. Kind of dumb, I know, but I really don't like putting up tents in the rain.

I was looking at the DD tarp, which only adds around 28ozs to my kit (or less if I go for the lightweight one) for what would be an added comfort. It will be easier to dry than a tent would be, though I'm not sure if I'd end up in a situation where everything was wet and I had twice as much stuff to dry.

Has anyone got any experience of this setup? Any suggestions would be welcomed. I've done plenty of walking and camping in my time but we don't really have wild camping in the UK so I've never done this type of thing for more than a couple of nights.

I'm not planning on going UL anyway, and am taking an old heavy pack and a big synthetic Rab sleeping bag. I'll post a gear list when I get close to getting everything together.

A little about my plans:

I'm planning on flying into Orlando and maybe hitching to Atlanta to then get a shuttle to Springer. Being from the UK, I'm hopefully planning to get a chance to get off the trail and maybe spend some time in places like DC, Philly and NYC on the way. As someone who's enthusiasm for surfing is only matched by my inability to do so, I'd also like to head to Montauk from NYC. Would also be cool to spend some time once I've finished in Quebec, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto and Niagara before flying back from Toronto to Orlando to then hit up Gainsville FL in late October for FEST before flying back to the UK. It would be crazy of me to not take advantage of being so close to some of these iconic cities without at least sticking my head in!

[Walkintom]

I would suggest ditching the idea of an extra tarp. You're going down the track of badly overloading yourself and thus destroying much of the enjoyment of the experience.

Take only what you need. You'll likely find that you carry a bunch of crap you really don't need even when you try to pack light.

The side trips you mention sound like fun.

[Namtrag]

Tarptents can be pitched without getting them wet, as the fly is built in. In other words, with a normal tent, you would pitch the tent and then put the fly over it. Tarptents go up in one piece, so the "tent" part doesn't get wet.

[Malto]

Only 28oz????? If you hate setting up a tent in the rain enough the carry an extra two pound for 2168 miles then Go for it. I suspect you will abandon that idea within your first hundred miles if you make it that far.

as far as your side trips, most of those cities are easily accessible from the trail.

[johnnybgood]

One option is if it's raining, keep walking .

[Tipi Walter]

With the weather we've been having in the Southeast for the last 4 months, I would never consider using a single wall tent unless you want a saturated mess---i.e. condensation on the inner fly. And if you or any of your gear touches the fly, it will get wet. Think lofted sleeping bag atop a 2 inch sleeping pad and does the foot of your bag touch the wet fly? Probably. A tent is supposed to keep me totally dry in all conditions.

And a good double wall tent does not need a tarp overhead unless it's one of those Ozark Trail domes or something similar (leaks!). A good tent is all a person needs (or a good single tarp or hammock etc) and will keep you dry in all conditions.

[Tipi Walter]

One option is if it's raining, keep walking .

Or to stay in bed in the tent, my preferable option.

[pauly_j]

The weight won't be an issue, my real conundrum is whether the setup will actually offer any benefit.

I'm in my 20s and run marathons, cycle every day, hike often, etc. So long as my packweight doesn't exceed 35lbs I can't see it being a factor.

What I wouldn't want would be a wet tent, wet groundsheet and wet tarp to have to try and dry.

[Tipi Walter]

What I wouldn't want would be a wet tent, wet groundsheet and wet tarp to have to try and dry.

Hard to understand this post. If you do use a tarp over a tent, the tarp will get wet in a rainstorm and it's not something you want?? There's no way to keep a tarp dry in a rainstorm, or a tent for that matter w/o a tarp. Packing up a wet tent/tarp is a routine chore on a backpacking trip---sometimes it's wet, sometimes it's dry---the worse is when is covered in ice and won't pack into the stuff sack.

The only problem with packing a wet tent is that it weighs a little bit more. Once you set it up you can towel off the floor puddles and shake the inside roof free of water drops.

[pauly_j]

With the weather we've been having in the Southeast for the last 4 months, I would never consider using a single wall tent unless you want a saturated mess---i.e. condensation on the inner fly. And if you or any of your gear touches the fly, it will get wet. Think lofted sleeping bag atop a 2 inch sleeping pad and does the foot of your bag touch the wet fly? Probably. A tent is supposed to keep me totally dry in all conditions.

And a good double wall tent does not need a tarp overhead unless it's one of those Ozark Trail domes or something similar (leaks!). A good tent is all a person needs (or a good single tarp or hammock etc) and will keep you dry in all conditions.

Thanks! I don't like the idea of a single-walled tent either but tarptent seems to be all I hear about people using. I have a Vango Banshee 300 which is fantastic and I've never had any problems with but it does weigh in at 6 1/2 lbs and has a big pack size.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrFKTZbVMWE

[pauly_j]

Hard to understand this post. If you do use a tarp over a tent, the tarp will get wet in a rainstorm and it's not something you want?? There's no way to keep a tarp dry in a rainstorm, or a tent for that matter w/o a tarp. Packing up a wet tent/tarp is a routine chore on a backpacking trip---sometimes it's wet, sometimes it's dry---the worse is when is covered in ice and won't pack into the stuff sack.

The only problem with packing a wet tent is that it weighs a little bit more. Once you set it up you can towel off the floor puddles and shake the inside roof free of water drops.

What I meant was I have no experience of using this sort of set up and while the tarp would obviously get wet, I don't know whether the tent would be also. In the UK we get what we call dew on tents so even if it hasn't rained your tent will be soaking wet in the morning. Without knowing the climate of the US I don't know if this would be the case as well.

Basically, I could live with a dry tarptent and a wet tarp but if they're both going to be soaking then I may as well just get a solo tent.

[Tipi Walter]

What I meant was I have no experience of using this sort of set up and while the tarp would obviously get wet, I don't know whether the tent would be also. In the UK we get what we call dew on tents so even if it hasn't rained your tent will be soaking wet in the morning. Without knowing the climate of the US I don't know if this would be the case as well.

Basically, I could live with a dry tarptent and a wet tarp but if they're both going to be soaking then I may as well just get a solo tent.

Like the UK, we sometimes get high humid moist nights with heavy dew, and then sometimes not. It's especially worse in the winter months, of course. Winter tent condensation can be a pesky problem with no solution, esp so as mentioned in a single wall tent. Even tarp users complain of dripping condensation on occasion. A tent wet with condensation is sort of "half wet" and not totally soaked as in a downpour. The fly's inner surface will be wet but not so much the inner canopy tent (on a double wall), but when packing the fly water will somewhat soak the inner tent. The next night you'll have a bone dry night with a breeze and everything's back to normal.

I think when push comes to shove and you're preparing to set up camp in a rainstorm, you'll dispense with the tarp setup and go directly to the tent. Because you're cold and shaking and want the tent up fast to sit inside and take off your wet stuff and put on the dry. This has to happen fast. Doing a tarp in the beginning is just another irksome unneeded chore, unless you're just doing a tarp all by itself.

[Namtrag]

Not sure why everyone is ignoring the fact that a tarptent doesn't need a seperate tarp over top of it...it pitches dry. I have one, and so do 5 of my backpacking friends. It's a breeze in the rain to set it up without getting it wet.

[garlic08]

I don't believe you mentioned your start date. A well-pitched tarptent does perfectly well on the AT in three-season conditions.

One of the things I love about my tarptent is the ability to pitch quickly and easily in pouring rain. And I've never used a footprint with mine.

Good luck with your plans.

[Connie]

I shake the excess water off the tarp or tent fly, then stuffing it in the big mesh back pocket of the backpack.

If my backpack doesn't have a big mesh back pocket, I add a big mesh back pocket to the backpack.

[Mobius]

A Tarptent Notch (for example) is less than the weight of your proposed tarp, can be setup in the rain without getting the interior wet, and dries out very quickly when it stops raining.

[pauly_j]

Thanks, the notch was what I was looking at.

[bigcranky]

Also, 28 ounces is 10 Snickers bars (a popular candy bar with chocolate and peanuts). I'd rather have the extra food.

Your tent is going to get wet from dew a lot of mornings. Maybe most mornings early in the hike. So I don't see the tarp as adding a lot of function if you're trying to have a totally dry tent. I just shake all the water off my tent, and lay it out at lunch time to dry if the sun is out.

[Meriadoc]

A tarp or a tent. Pick one.

I have used both. I really like having the tarp because it lets me have a dry, leisurely lunch with friends but that is a pretty rare situation, especially on the AT (all the shelters make for lunch spots). I really like having the tent because of bugs.

Regarding getting wet during setup:
A tent takes approximately 2-2.5 minutes to set up without rushing.
A tarp takes approximately 2-2.5 minutes to set up without rushing.
Either way, I and my stuff get wet about the same amount regardless of which shelter I have with me. I do like having the extra space in a tarp (versus a tent) to pack up, but it isn't necessary. I also like the extra space in a tarp for cooking, but again, it's not a game changer.

Finally, if you do decide to carry both tarp and tent, you can get a tarp weighing half of the one you mentioned. OES makes some bomber tarps that are 14 ounces (without rigging). Going to a slightly less robust version or getting a tarp made from cuben fiber can bring that weight down even more.

[juma]

The weight won't be an issue, my real conundrum is whether the setup will actually offer any benefit.

I'm in my 20s and run marathons, cycle every day, hike often, etc. So long as my packweight doesn't exceed 35lbs I can't see it being a factor.

What I wouldn't want would be a wet tent, wet groundsheet and wet tarp to have to try and dry.

I usually do take a tent and 3oz Cuban tarp and use it as a front porch or to set up for a break in rain or sun. I wouldn't consider a heavier one.