i've been sleeping with my food in a tent for 29 years now on the AT. never had a problem with rodents, bears, 'coons, whatever
Jester posted this to facebook a couple of days ago, I think it's worth a read:
I sleep with my food. There. I said it.
I’ve slept with my food in my tent while hiking in twenty-two different states, including ones that have Grizzlies. When legally required, I’ve used bear canisters (Kings Canyon, Yosemite) and hung food (Yellowstone). I’ve used bear boxes when they’ve been provided. But otherwise, I sleep with my food. And so do a lot of other people.
Why? Simply put, I believe it to be the best strategy for protecting bears.
This statement is probably viewed incredulously by people who have been told over and over again by official agencies that sleeping with your food is a terrible idea, and that people who do it are lazy, irresponsible, and part of the problem. But stick with me, and I’ll explain my line of thinking.
I believe that one of the reasons that official sites post the proper hanging of food as a best practice doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the efficacy of hanging food as a deterrent versus other methods of food storage. I think it has more to do with the safety of the hiker, and the potential liability involved in the event of a attack rather than the result of any studies.
Which is to say, keeping your food in your tent could be 1,000 times more likely to prevent a bear from getting your food, and authorities would still never suggest it due to the relative potential bad outcome should a bear invade a tent, regardless of how unlikely that might be statistically. So if sleeping with your food decreases the chances of a bear getting it by a great margin, but increases only slightly the chance of you having an encounter with a bear, it won’t be recommended.
I have often thought that hanging food isn’t necessarily about keeping food away from bears, but rather keeping bears away from people while they attempt to get people’s food. The argument would say something to the effect of, “well, the bear got my food, but at least I’m okay.” People who hang food aren’t terrified that a bear might get their food if they slept with it, but rather of what a bear might do to them while it was getting their food if they slept with it.
Much of what we do regarding bears and food is, as with water treatment, faith-based. If you hang food with success you are convinced that hanging food is why a bear didn’t get your food, whether there is a bear in the area or not. If you sleep with your food, and are never attacked, you believe that sleeping with your food is a successful strategy. When a bear does get food that is hung, the assumption on the part of those who hang food is that the food was improperly hung. Why? Because they have faith that a bear cannot get to properly hung food -- even though there are bears that have proven that they can learn to defeat just about any unattended system of protecting food (including bear canisters).
As for bears invading tents, it’s incredibly rare, despite the fact that at some point in a trip everything you own probably smells like food. On the very rare occasions that it does happen the first question anyone asks is, “did the hiker have food in their tent?” Why? Because people like to find a cause that tells then that they are relatively safe from this kind of thing, so that they can tell themselves that they don’t have to be afraid. “He had food in his tent and was attacked, I do not have food in my tent and therefore won’t be attacked.” But even if you don’t have food in your tent, you still probably smell like food. You’ve spilled it on your clothing, you’ve stored it (and trash) in your backpack, you’ve got some on your hands, your beard, your mouth. It’s not like you’re taking a shower every day. Putting all “smellables” in a bag doesn’t mean your tent and its contents don’t smell like food. Ultimately, actually having food in your tent might not make it smell any more like food than not having it in your tent.
But there’s not much you can do about that, right? So you do what you can to minimize bad encounters. And if your food doesn’t get taken and you remain unharmed, then whatever you’ve done worked (at least in your mind). Even if there were never any bears near you.
Are people who sleep with their food irresponsible and lazy? Undoubtedly some are. And then there are others who believe that it’s a better way of dealing with food. Do I have any statistical evidence to back up my belief that bears recognize possession as ownership, and that they are more likely to go after hung, non-attended food rather than expend the energy to attack another animal to take its food? Nope. But then again, people who believe hanging is the best strategy don’t have any statistical analysis to back up their belief, either. Anecdotally, I can look at the situation on the Appalachian Trail in Georgia and note that the bear or bears who get hikers’ food are getting it exclusively from bear hangs. Is the food improperly hung? Probably, but not necessarily. Does it occur to any of those hikers to sue the ATC or NPS or any other agency for suggesting that hanging food is the best method? Of course not.
On the other hand, you can imagine how quickly someone (or their family) would engage a lawyer if ATC suggested sleeping with food and a bear invaded a tent, regardless of how unlikely a scenario that might be, particularly if that hiker sustained injuries or was killed.
I sleep with my food. Should you? That’s really up to you. If having food in your tent is going to keep you awake all night, probably not. In fact, I’ve hung food when I’ve been around other hikers who were so worried about me not doing so that it seemed a kindness to hang my food so they could get some sleep.
I’m not suggesting what anyone else should or shouldn’t do. I’m explaining my reasoning for what I do, and the fact that it isn’t as lazy or irresponsibe as you might have been led to believe.
I sleep with my food because I think it’s safer for the bears.
Written by Jester
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
Poll needs more options. I always hang my food if I can find a tree within reasonable range of my camp that allows for a proper hang. I sleep with my food otherwise, using aloksak "odor resistant" bags (whether they help or not, I cannot say, but I feel better and sleep better using them). I view improper hanging as irresponsible both to the Bears and for my own security. I use canisters where legally required. If a bear pole or cable exists, I use it.
HST/JMT August 2016
TMB/Alps Sept 2015
PCT Mile 0-857 - Apr/May 2015
Foothills Trail Feb 2015
Colorado Trail Aug 2014
AT: Rockfish Gap to Boiling Springs 2014
John Muir Trail Aug/Sept 2013
i always sleep with my food at my campsite and if theirs someone around that don't like it they can go on up the trail for as i am concerned.Originally Posted by zradg7
Well, good reply by Elf, and I agree that if you are successful with whatever your method is - whether it is food storage, camsite selection, or whatever, you will automatically conclude that's the right way to do things.
Sort of detracts from those of us who are TRULY right.......
I'll plan to bring some extra food, in case I run into you guys after having been attacked by a manbearpig.
Exactly. Bear desire to avoid you is greater than their desire to get your food. By putting your food in another tent, you solved this problem for the bear.
My jack Russell keeps the mice at bay in the tent or shelter...thinking of trying one of these on my next hike...
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Always hung my bag when bear boxes or cables were unavailable. I did have squirrels breach my bag a couple of times in very heavy rain storms (go figure) but never had any other problems. What I saw a lot of on the trail and this goes well beyond bear bags was that people just generally got lazy, why make things any harder on yourself than it has to be, the thru hikers motto...
In the past I've slept with my food but then I'm also careful about cooking and smells that might draw critters in the first place. On the AT I will hang my food. Crowds of people tend to attract crowds of critters thus better safe than sorry.
Hmmm... Bear bagging certainly is one GOOD method of dealing with food on the trail. I certainly encourage it, often do it myself, and have taught many people how to properly hang a bag using the PCT method. It is also the method that I teach any time I deal with people who are new to hiking. The problem with your comment is that there are many GOOD ways of dealing and bagging is neither perfect nor the "truly right" method.Well, good reply by Elf, and I agree that if you are successful with whatever your method is - whether it is food storage, camsite selection, or whatever, you will automatically conclude that's the right way to do things.
Sort of detracts from those of us who are TRULY right.......
I'll plan to bring some extra food, in case I run into you guys after having been attacked by a manbearpig.
First off, both standing bear boxes and personal bear canisters are unequivocally better than bear bagging. Second, bear bagging works relatively well, but it's track record does not live up to the near evangelical fervor that some of this methods supporters use to promote it as the one "true" method. Bear bagging has a relatively small, but well established rate of failure that stems from both improperly hung food and from bears who have learned through experience to defeat bear bag hangs. If you doubt this, just start reading the trail journals of hikers starting out NOBO in April, or just hit the trail for a few days. See how many thru hikers have stories of witnessing food being stolen and make note of the piss poor job the average hiker does of hanging a bear bag. The amount of bear bagged food that is lost to bears and critters each year simply doesn't support it as the best or only method for caring for your food.
In contrast, the incidence of animals (besides shelter mice) attempting to take food that is physically posessed by a hiker, whether on their back, in their hand, or inside their pillow, etc. is basically zero. The key here is posession, the moment you step away from your food or put it out of reach or leave it in an unattened pack or tent it becomes up for grabs. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that everyone should sleep with their food, I'm just pointing out that the level of snark shown by bear bagging fanatics is not justified by their track record. But in fairness, keeping your food attended at all times is a pain and it's often easier to do a PCT hang than to carry your food bag around camp with you All the time.
Now to get back to your comment about "TRUELY right." If you want to put effort into pushing for the one true way of food storage on the trail, then forsake bagging, forsake canisters, forsake anything I say about keeping food attended. Instead pressure the maintainjng clubs to put proper bear boxes at all established campsites, especially in Georgia. If you want to keep bears from getting your food, a steel box chained to a tree is hands down the best option. I'm sure that someone (lone wolf) will be around in a moment to say that bear boxes would end up collecting garbage on the southern A.T., they're probably right about this, but so what? Litter sitting in a bear box is still out of reach of bears and if it results in fewer habituated bears, then I would call it a success.
Last edited by Sarcasm the elf; 02-27-2015 at 23:51.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
agree on boxes, elf. i'll still sleep with my chow
agree on boxes, elf. i'll still sleep with my chow
By all means. Besides if a bear ever tried to bother you, wouldn't it just end up in your food bag?
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
I was in Banff when two women were mauled in their tent by a bear that tore right into their tent after food they had inside the tent.
I read at BPL about the boy scout or cub scout that had a half candy bar inside his tent.
I am not keeping food in my sleeping area because I am "carrying my fears" as I have read at this forum: example, big first aid kits. I live where grizzley bears live. I have one living on my property. Okay, the lower 10-acres.
My "take" on all this: I respect bears. If they get human food, they may be "relocated" but they eventually are killed "by the authorities".
And so, I give the bears no opportunity to go after my food: I use Opsak to keep the food odors from the bear.
That is the minimum.
According to the Backpackinglight study, Opsaks do not perform as claimed. I believe it, because the ones I bought leaked water.
To the best of my knowledge, there have been four fatal bear attacks in tents on the North American Continent in the last twenty years. (about 1/5 of a victim per year on the continent of of tens of millions of tent-camping nights.) None of the victims had food in their tents.
the campsite was clean and the food was locked in the car
all the victims had put their food into metal food canisters installed at campsite
There was no food in the tent
Bears stealing ANY unguarded, accessible food is business as usual, it's what they do.
Bears killing people for any reason, is very, very unusual behavior. Bears, on a per capita basis, are less dangerous than humans.
Opsaks were developed for special units in the military.
The military uses Opsaks with great success.
I have to say BPL is not my authority, especially so over the years of reading bad advice about everything from tent stakes to JetBoil, by self-styled experts.
There is some excellent helpful information at BPL, but authority? No.
PS. anything can be destroyed, then claim it was "defective".
Denizens of BPL has a lot of that, insisting on warranty replacement.
I'm not claiming they were defective. They WERE defective. I tried the first bag, new and never used or abused. Water ran right through it. I tried the second new and unused bag. Same thing. leaked profusely. Obviously they wouldn't work for odor-proofing, either. I believe the Backpackinglight tests.
I have not had that experience.
I would tell the people at Opsak, also where and when purchased, because that might help identify the lot number.
If Opsak contracted out production, Opsak needs to know.
Opsak needs to know about it, in any event.
I have used Opsak's since first available to the public. Before that I saw the rifle version. I immediately thought: what a great product for food.
I know Opsak works.
Opsak works for alder-smoked salmon. I have done it.
My concern telling people it is okay, just get out and hike.
My concern is not getting the public outdoors, on the AT NOBO, starting with a steep trail right off the plane and right out of the car, and have the 80% thru-hiker failure rate. Backpacker Magazine reports 4 tons (8,000 lbs.) of backpacking gear sent home, UPS alone at one outfitter selling more thru-hiker appropriate gear. That doesn't include abandoned gear, or, gear left at "hiker boxes".
My concern is the natural environment experience.
My concern is the public getting a natural environment experience.
The fact is, bears that go after the food we eat or our garbage are almost never relocated: they are quietly killed and that is why there are fewer reported maulings.
Quietly killing bears is destruction of the natural environment experience.
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