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  1. #81
    Registered User Dirty Harry's Avatar
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    80 posts……amazing. This has been most entertaining. Its good to be back…..Ill see you out there stove-less and shelter-less.
    GA-ME 05 GA-ME 08

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    80 posts……amazing. This has been most entertaining. Its good to be back…..Ill see you out there stove-less and shelter-less.
    the ladle you just used to stir this pot probably weighs more than a tent and a stove!

  3. #83
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    Leave your clothes at home also.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by JumpMaster Blaster View Post
    Dude, I'm a "short distance hiker" and I will NOT leave without my tent. Hell, I won't even consider slackpacking without it. It's 38 ounces. A potential lifesaving 38 ounces.
    JumpMaster Blaster,

    I would concur with you. Anyone who is planning on spending the night out should have some type of shelter.

    Wolf

  5. #85

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    LOL....
    very entertaining read...

  6. #86

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    Hol a tábor, a sátor? ~ Where is the camp, the tent?
    Backpacking light, feels so right.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connie View Post

    The fact is, Boy Scouts are reprehensible for the "lore" for "survival" they still teach.

    For example, follow a stream.
    I have been a scout leader for 16 years, a scout leader trainer for 45 years, was a 911 operator for 14 years, am a American Red Cross First Aid/CPR/AED instructor, and will be taking Wilderness First Aid Instructor Training this summer.

    I have never come across "follow a stream" in a scout manual or leader instructions. The scout training is not incorrect. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people affiliated with scouts who do not follow the training, choose not to complete it, or still panic during an emergency.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Second Hand View Post
    I know there are a number of former and current boy scouts on this thread and I don't mean to offend anyone, but I have seen a number of poor practices from boy scouts.
    You are very true - However, those practices are against BSA training.

    It is the same with teaching. I am a teacher, and I am ashamed of what some other teachers have done. That doesn't mean the Department of Education promotes, educates, or suggests those despicable actions/activities.

    Put the blame where it belongs - on the individual.

    Regarding other policies scouts practice - BSA does suggest small group size for Leave No trace (something some leaders ignore - again an individual thing).

    If you hold one thing against the BSA - it should be their sexuality discrimination. I abhor that policy, and I continue to work against it as a leader. (I also dislike practices and policies in my nation and continue to work to change them - not expatriate myself...)
    Last edited by shelb; 03-15-2015 at 00:17.

  9. #89

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    It can be done
    It is not adviseable, may be foolish, but is done sometimes hikers get far north and no crowds.
    Poncho-tarp or gatewood cape is workable solution.

  10. #90
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    Very selfish and foolish under most circumstances, but I do know of people who have done it. They started at Springer in February, UL, and put in serious miles. They hit virtually every shelter before NOBO crowds, and finished early enough to hit very few going SOBO. That said, I still find it reckless and do not condone it.

  11. #91

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    Great idea. What do you have to lose?

  12. #92
    Super Moderator Ender's Avatar
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    I was at a very full shelter one very rainy night, when a hiker came in who didn't have a tent and demanded that we make room for him. There was simply no more room in the inn, so to speak, so he then demanded that someone with a tent get out of the shelter and use their tent so he could stay in the shelter. He was refused. Flat out refused.

    It was dusk, and he ended up having to hike on another 5 miles in the pouring, cold rain to the next shelter. I assume he eventually either got a spot in a shelter, or ended up hiking through the night. Either way, he must have lived because we didn't come across his body the next morning.

    Moral of the story: Bring a shelter. Period. 100% of the time.
    Don't take anything I say seriously... I certainly don't.

  13. #93
    Registered User 4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    80 posts……amazing. This has been most entertaining. Its good to be back…..Ill see you out there stove-less and shelter-less.
    Well there, Dirty Harry, what can one say regarding not carrying a shelter in case it's needed except:

    "Everyday you've got to ask yourself one question, 'Do I feel lucky today? Well, do ya, punk?'"
    "That's the thing about possum innards - they's just as good the second day." - Jed Clampett

  14. #94

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    Why even risk it when you can buy a Cuben tarp that weighs 5.3 oz and a bivy that weighs 4.2 oz.
    Thats sub 10 oz.

    Or if you are really hard core and cheap at least take a MYOG a tyvek bivy of the 1.25oz tyvek and a campmor 5x9 poncho tarp.

    I have gone out with just a wool blanket and a swiss army knife before and got soaked. Mid 50's wet and windy and you can get hypothermia.

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I was at a very full shelter one very rainy night, when a hiker came in who didn't have a tent and demanded that we make room for him. There was simply no more room in the inn, so to speak, so he then demanded that someone with a tent get out of the shelter and use their tent so he could stay in the shelter. He was refused. Flat out refused.

    It was dusk, and he ended up having to hike on another 5 miles in the pouring, cold rain to the next shelter. I assume he eventually either got a spot in a shelter, or ended up hiking through the night. Either way, he must have lived because we didn't come across his body the next morning.
    I am firmly against anyone not bringing a shelter. That is simply asking for trouble.

    That said, in Ender's case I might volunteer my shelter to the idiot and tell him he has a choice - he can setup my tent in the dark and rain and sleep in it, or he can hike to the next (hopefully not full) shelter. I realize that will likely involve me packing up a wet tent the next morning, but I am not sure I could live with some of the possibilities - the guy dies on the trail from hypothermia, or Search and Rescue has to come save him. Knowing that I had a tool that could have kept the idiot out of trouble and did nothing? That would be too much.
    2005 SOBO Attempt (500 miles)
    2024 (?) SOBO Planning

  16. #96

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    I wish the BSA would jump in and run national ads to straighten everyone out on "follow a stream" since the origin of the idea is "scouting" in past years.

    That would be excellent.

  17. #97
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    What do the boy scouts have to do with going tent-less?????

  18. #98
    Registered User WILLIAM HAYES's Avatar
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    I have met only one person that did this on the trail and he was a complete idiot in ever way had no business hiking

  19. #99
    Registered User jberretta7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connie View Post
    Rubbing is harmful, if hypothermic actually.

    Their heart can stop.

    No jostling either. Set them down gently. No jarring motion. For example dropping a bit during a carry.

    Another thing, there is actually rubbing the wrong way. I did not make this up. Toward heart or away from heart is important for the heart.

    The fact is, Boy Scouts are reprehensible for the "lore" for "survival" they still teach.

    For example, follow a stream.

    No. Most small streams disappear in the ground, absorbed by the dirt. Many more streams are a bushwack, tiring the person who is making an effort to survive. The stream sides steepen, become a ravine. The forest duff is loose. The exhausted hiker tries to scramble out, tiring more and become exhausted.

    The fact is, Search and Rescue look "in the drains" for dead hikers or dead hunters.

    The fact is, unless you know the stream course and it does not wind around and around thru thick trees and brush, forget it.

    Coming from an Eagle Scout....

    Connie,

    I'll try to be as polite as possible, something you seem incapable of doing towards the BSA. Only 1% of scouts make it to the rank of Eagle. That particular rank is what truly matters on whether or not you should listen to a scout. Scout leaders are not professionals and generally do what they do because their kid(s) are in the troop. You can expect a 12 year old Second Class scout to repeat verbatim what to do for someone with a second degree burn, but never assume that they could handle that actual situation. You can't train for that through a book. As to where you got this "follow the stream" sentiment from...just because Bear Grylls says it does NOT mean that it's taught in the BSA. He was British SAS, not BSA so if he does that then that's on him and whomever watches his show. Multiple children who get lost in the woods every year never make it, the few that do are generally a part of the BSA or happened to be with someone who was. My final point for your closed mind is this... if you happen to be out in the middle of nowhere, completely lost and with a piece of your ulna protruding from your arm while you are bleeding out, would you rather have a Boy Scout show up with SOME knowledge on what to do or a random hiker who would squirm and have NO knowledge on what to do?

    Don't pretend to know about a subject that you very very clearly do not know anything about.


    and +1 for getting them in a sleeping bag with another warm body as THAT is what is supposed to be done. Moral of the story is the woman survived so get off your high horse and be thankful that a semi trained scout leader was there to do something rather than nothing.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by jberretta7 View Post
    Coming from an Eagle Scout....

    Connie,

    I'll try to be as polite as possible, something you seem incapable of doing towards the BSA.
    I don't think you tried that hard, lol.


    I did meet people who went shelterless on the LT. I don't think it's as irresponsible as everyone makes it seems. The OP has thru-hiked twice so it's not like he doesn't know what he is getting into. There is risk associated with it... If a shelter is closed for repair or it's just full, you might end up hiking through the night or just being really uncomfortable.

    It's not for me. There are to many cheap and light weight solutions to justify not at least taking a tarp... but HYOH and good luck.

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