Advice on my JMT cooksetup

[fastfoxengineering]

I want to explicitly talk to someone and tell them I'm doing a sobo thru hike of the JMT leaving on this day. Can I bring my Esbit stove?

Can you point me in the right direction

[MuddyWaters]

You can google the fire restrictions for yosemite and seki, and you can read it for yourself.

You can also google the 2014 inyo fire restrictions issued in june and read that ansell adams and john muir were excluded. This is typical I believe. Call the inyo office and ask, but nothing official will be out till june most likely. Most just assume esbit is as good as or better than "jellied petroleum" vaseline stoves are messy, but fuel could be dual purpose.

You may also need to call the Sierra national forest office as well. About 50 miles lies in the SNF between Reds Meadow and SEKI, 25% of trail.

Different people have been told different things, by different rangers regarding esbit.


I havent ever heard of anyone getting a ticket for an esbit stove. It would be a $3000 for violating fire restrictions though, it can be taken seriously.

[DLP]

Key to getting the poor wording changed was pointing out that 1) esbit is the safest fuel out there, you can barely light it and the army has used it for decades and 2) there is no such thing as jellied petroleum stove fuel, they mean jellied alcohol.

+1 to the confusing and poor wording. Jellied alcohol???? (EDIT... ah Sterno... okay...)

I don't think that I would actually call the ranger station. I'd google their websites and maybe print the screen shot. I suspect that if the stove regulations are again convoluted and confusing, you could very well get different answers from different rangers.

For whatever it is worth... I've had rangers ask to see my permits and bear can, but thus far, I've not had one ask what kind of stove am I using. Of course, we are on our 4th year of record drought... and things change.

[MuddyWaters]

Everybody is sticking to the same old antiquated wording from long ago. What they meant then, was no wood fires, you had to use a camping stove. Many people have been told esbits fine, some have been told alcohol is fine. I know people used esbit last yr and it was sold in places. SNFs website doesnt address it.

[DLP]

Kings Canyon and Sequoia have an easy to read and very understandable website: http://www.nps.gov/seki/learn/nature...strictions.htm

They specifically say the cube/tablet and alcohol stoves will be be permitted, even in the most extreme fire danger.

[DLP]

PS... Hey fastfoxengineering, I apologize...

You asked, "Hey... anybody have experience with Esbit stoves?" and I immediately jumped to, "OMG! The Drought! The wild fires! Ackkkkk!"

I'm probably too sensitive because the drought is very much on our minds here. I was also on the PCT during the Yosemite Rim Fire in 2013. The smoke was terrible for weeks and places that usually have 200 miles of viability had 1/4 mile. I eventually had to get off the trail because of the smoke and move back to the coast. I also had Yosemite permits for last September and a fire messed up my plans.

Also, as mentioned above... The info is often poorly written and confusing and a person can go down a rabbit hole of stoves and fuels.

But anyway, I was thinking... and sorry for overreacting and side tracking your original question and probably contributing more mis-information and confusion.

[fastfoxengineering]

Not a problem. It's actually led to me researching stoves more and I'm reading more up on the JMT that I was before. About time I get my butt in gear. I appreciate the resources for the stove regulations in Sequoia and Kings Canyon. Its funny, cause all im trying to do is boil 2 cups of water.

[sonora pass resupply]

Mr Waters

There isn't a good smswer for you. Right now anything goes. As spring progresses the various agencies begin to impose the different levels of restrictions. The only way to stay legal as you head north is to read the postings at trail heads and
update yourself at your resupplies.

Whether or not alcohol stoves were allowed was covered in-depth and repeatedly on the John Muir Trail Group Forum on Yahoo Groups. The operative phrase in the fire restrictions was "must have a control valve". Always seemed pretty definitive to me.

[DLP]

The operative phrase in the fire restrictions was "must have a control valve". Always seemed pretty definitive to me.

Stoves and fire restrictions are linked together in many of our brains. Hiking in California is to walk thru a confusing maze of allowed and banned stoves. "Positive Shut-Off Valve" is the gold standard for many of us (you can also get shower heads with positive shut off valve and save water, too!). We end up, oh heck, I'll just take a canister stove and fuel and hope I don't knock it over and set the forest on fire! Or better yet... stoveless... gonna eat cold food and be done with it.

And as foxengineer said, "I just want to boil two cups of water!"

Best wishes!

[QiWiz]

I used Esbit in a Caldera Cone setup on my 9/14 JMT thru. A good windscreen is a key element of your system. Testing at home will let you know how much Esbit to bring. I like to budget 2-2.5 cubes a day depending on how much extra hot beverage I think I'll need.

[fastfoxengineering]

QiQwiz,

I plan on using a caldera cone or similar windscreen if I use Esbit. However, how come you were using so many cubes? Were you using the smaller 4 gram ones or the large 14grams ones.

I've been doing some boil tests with a trail designs gramcracker stove, hardware cloth pot support, and snow peak trek 700. I've boiled 2 cups of H20 the past few mornings for coffee. Each time, without a windscreen, yes, no windscreen, I didn't use a full 14 gram esbit cube to boil the cups. I probably used about 3/4's of a cube.

So, if I were to go Esbit, I would carry a full cube for each day (2 cups of water for dinner and use the leftovers for the occasional coffee in the am) no hot breakfast, but maybe that cup of joe. I would pack 1 extra cube. 4 days out = 5 cubes.

I am however, on the east coast, boiling two cups of h20 outside in about 40 degree weather. Don't know how it will do with an elevation change.

so yeah.. why 2.5 cubes a day?

ps. I'm taking my big dig with me!

[DLP]

Maybe might be the starting water temp?

[fastfoxengineering]

Don't know the exact temp but however cold my tap water can get is what I start with.

[Just Bill]

On your other question- the Toaks 550 or 600 ml pots are good sizes for boiling 2 cups with a canister stove IMO. They are cheap enough and don't break the bank. small canister, Ion stove and small towel fit inside no problem. http://www.amazon.com/TOAKS-POT-600-.../dp/B009B5E39O

QiWiz can answer for himself- but you likely answered your own question.
Roughly- In a CC rig with gram cracker you can boil 2 cups of water with half a 14g tab.

BUT- you gotta blow it out in time, store the partials (film can works good and fits in the tip the Caldera Cone), and then relight them.
So in real life, 3/4 cube per 2 cup boil is about right. I put the partials in the film can and burn em up as I go.

Bare minimum IMO- 1 tab per day will get you dinner no problem- and a bit of tab left over for a cup of hot water in the morning.
If you are doing any cooking at all, or lingering over coffee then a tab per meal is a bit better.

PLUS- Esbit doubles/substitutes/replaces any emergency fire starter or fire starting backups you might carry too. So kill two birds with one cube and ditch the other stuff and add in some extras for spare fuel or emergency fire.

SO-combine them both-
most of the time when it's all said and done- going sparse 1.5 14g cubes a day will do ya, 2-2.5 is a bit more typical though.

Yar- I've had a few lucky summer trips when one per day was almost overkill, but not with chilly mountain water or altitude. One reason I like the CC/Esbit so much is it is so light that even playing it safe on fuel isn't a big ding. It's a no-no on the JMT- but in a true emergency you can always burn wood too.

[Dogwood]

In all seriousness, for a JMT thru, a 220 mile or so hike, IMHO you may be overthinking the wt and performance of your cookset.

[MuddyWaters]

Mr Waters

There isn't a good smswer for you. Right now anything goes. As spring progresses the various agencies begin to impose the different levels of restrictions. The only way to stay legal as you head north is to read the postings at trail heads and
update yourself at your resupplies.

Whether or not alcohol stoves were allowed was covered in-depth and repeatedly on the John Muir Trail Group Forum on Yahoo Groups. The operative phrase in the fire restrictions was "must have a control valve". Always seemed pretty definitive to me.

Sekis and yosrmites changes last yr, specificaly now state alcohol stoves, both with and without shutoff valves are expressly permitted.

I just used ul cannister setup, wasnt worth the time to worry about it. If inyo excludes their part again, just do cold food 2 nights to get thru SNF, less than that if staying at vvr and mtr. Special use areas like these are excluded.

[fastfoxengineering]

Well dogwood, I'm not just looking at a cookset for the JMT. I'm looking past it. I won't spend $60 on a new setup for a short hike. However.. I have my 1.3L ti-tri which has become my go to stove for thru hiking and buying food on the go. I just purchased a nice 9 try Excalibur dehydrator and want to add a boil setup for when I make my own meals. No need for a 1.3L pot when I'm just boiling water for a dehydrated meal. So on short trips when I make my own meals I can bring a 550 ml pot and do a cozy rig. I prefer cooking in my pot but to me its pointless if I have a dehydrated meal. I'll be making dehydrated meals for my overnight trips and such. On a long thru hike (AT) I'd be bringing the ti-tri. So I'm really building my second cookit for a good purpose. And it just so happens that it'lle perfect for a JMT hike because I'm going to dehydrate all my own meals. Might as well take the oppurtunity due to resupply logistics on the JMT, right?.. So an ul compact 550 toaks sounds about right to me. Whether it be alcohol, esbit, wood, or isobutane doesn't really mater cause experimenting with different stoves is fortunately inexpensive. And up here in NH I can use whatever I'm feeling. I just don't wanna lug around a 1.3L pot when there is absolutely no reason to in this case. In the end, I'm pretty much sold on a toaks 550. Haven't figured out if I want handles or no handles. An whether or not I'll go esbit or canister for the jmt. The weight isn't a huge deal... But why not save a few ounces if I can for cheap. And honestly, I sold my canister stove I had before because well.. I think they're wasteful and not "green". My own beliefs. I'd be perfectly happy with an ion stove and canister. But if there are other options, I like to explore them. If I need to purchase the ion.. Well. So be it. At least I got a new toy. Happy trails.

[saltysack]

Its kind of complex. But last year tablet and alcohol stoves were expressly allowed during fire restrictions in seki and yosemite. I apparently had a small role in getting yosemites wording changed, a ranger emailed me. Inyo may exclude the ansel adams and john muir wilderness from fire restrictions as well, they did last yr.

I just used a small cannister stove(gnat) with a windscreen and zelph flat bottom pot. Total wt sans cannister was 3.1 oz. I used 1/2 of the 100 gm cannister. If you use a tight fitting windscreen, and keep heat turned down to alcohol boil times, i used about 0.17 oz fuel per boil. Inline with a normal jetboil on high, but at fraction of wt.

If u get a chance can u send a pic of ur windscreen...thx


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[MuddyWaters]

If u get a chance can u send a pic of ur windscreen...thx


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[saltysack]

Thx...is that aluminum flashing from hardware store?


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