Reason #113 to go Sobo
Take Time to Watch the Trees Dance with The Wind........Then Join In........
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Credit to New Yorker 3/9/15
I'm so confused, I'm not sure if I lost my horse or found a rope.
I suspect many of the AT Trail Clubs may soon be seeing a mini-revolt by their trail volunteers getting a bit sick and tired of packing out garbage and dealing with the overused privies. Not to mention the health and sanitation issues regarding raw sewage at these privies and surrounding areas where people are squatting.
This is one of the points I would watch carefully. The NPS has allowed the ATC to manage this stuff to date. They are proving themself not up to the task when there are serious health hazards in basically a federally sponsored facility in what amounts to a national park. Privys are kind of nasty always, when the crap is accumulating faster than the privy can handle it, its a potential health issue.Originally Posted by Praha4
AMC manages the situation fairly well IMO - probably as good or better than any other of the regional trail entities on the AT, especially given the number of hikers in the Whites during the high season. A lot of people (including some on WB) complain about the fees and the hiking/camping regulations in the Whites, but it takes both money and rules to manage impact when hiker load is this high. Maybe the other regional trail clubs could take a look and see how at least some of AMC's methods and philosophy could be implemented with a local flavor in other high impact areas.
"That's the thing about possum innards - they's just as good the second day." - Jed Clampett
This dynamic is a hint at what I refer to as a more painful solution. Every entity has its own allegiances. The NPS and the ATC both exist so that we may enjoy great things. The ATC is more beholding to the thru than the NPS. The sad fact is that many a thru does not care what either organization thinks. All they care about is their grand adventure. There are groups that have more power than the ATC and NPS. They care less about the hiker than the self centered hiker cares about them. As hikers, it would do us all good to have LNT be more than a lie that we pretend to care about. We are loving the trail to death. At some point the wrong group will notice and stop that love.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. - Abraham Lincoln
I think the permit idea makes a lot of sense. $1 a day, with a $100 annual cap would provide a lot of funds to hire some shelter/ privy maintainers. Maybe even some shelter / privy replacements also. The dog needs a $1 a day permit too. Some things are worth paying for.
Going to run into the same problems as Nepal has on the Everest region around Dingboche, Lobuche and Pheriche. Human waste is now a major problem in these areas due to thousands of trekkers/climbers going into the Everest region. The Nepalese Government is now implementing new rules an regulations and new fees to try and combat the problem. However, it comes a lot too late now! I agree with paying fees and such, but it still will not stop the irresponsible individuals or groups from ignoring the rules of nature an the rules of laws!
i keep sayin' put caretakers at each shelter to manage privys and such and charge a fee for camping at the shelters during the busy season
Yes.
The ATC has a $7 million dollar annual budget and the clout to get this started. Fees would make it sustainable.
They could find a way to make this happen if they wanted to.
Real leadership is needed now. THe board should get involved -- enough with the Movie premiers.
This is the proven remedy.
Yep. It's past time.
"That's the thing about possum innards - they's just as good the second day." - Jed Clampett
And the "The Trail to Every Classroom", and the every town is a "Appalachian Trail Community".\
The trouble I have with campfires are the folks that carry a bottle in one hand and a Bible in the other.
You never know which one is talking.
Some sections of the AT are accessible to pump trucks and vault type privys are used. Many of the AMC trailheads in the whites get pumped and Katahdin Stream gets pumped. The majority are in "fee" areas so there is a source of revenue to pay for the maintenance. Unless things have changed, dug type privys were not legal in Maryland. I talked with a fairly high level PATC rep once and he was telling me that he had to locate and obtain a right of way to access several remote facilities. One that I remembered was the Ed Garvey Shelter which had a vault type privy that needed to be pumped routinely.
AMC used to haul wastes from their huts with a helicopter, those costs were charged to the huts. I believe that they now have mini treatment plants and use Clivus type composters routinely to substantially reduce their waste generation and subsequent treatment. Composting toilets need a maintainer and even then folks tend to throw trash in them and the maintainer needs to fish it out at some point.
It all comes down to money, it can be fairly easily solved with money and bureaucracy to administer it. The NPS long ago delegated the management of the AT to ATC but did not supply any significant funding. The ATC has delegated each section of the AT to AT maintaining clubs without significant funding. The clubs do what they can with what they can collect but realistically with the exception of very high use sites with restricted camping like the whites or bigelow where fees can be collected, some new source of revenue needs to be developed. Looks to me like at some point thru hikers get to pay for a permit to cover administration. Figure AMC gets $8 per to administer a campground and compost the waste and lets assume 5 months for a thruhike at 30.5 nights and that's $1,220 fee to every prospective thru hiker. I expect if they charged up front of everyone who started, the fee could be substantially dropped if they offered no refunds. Load management could be implemented by discounting non traditional thru hikes. Of course somehow areas with high non AT traffic would need to collect revenue to assure that the thru hikers are shouldering the burden.
Long ago I asked Bob at Kincora why TEHC did not have privys at the majority of their shelters, after making a few jokes, he indicated that TEHC was incapable of maintaining them with their membership. I expect many trail clubs that are already stretched for volunteers would lose quite a few if they need to attend to the contents of a privy on a frequent basis.
I am hiking next year. I guess I will aim at the latter part of Feb to be through before the bulk of hikers. Hopefully the weather will support and that I can hike fast enough to stay ahead of the bubble until it sort of dies out.
This kind of points at the hiking community, volunteers are absolutely needed to deal with this, and other maintenance needs of the AT and other trails. Imagine how well appointed these maintenance organizations would be if for every 6 years people hiked, they spent 6 months volunteering for trail maintenance or support at some level. Hard to blame leadership for not doing things we as a group won't do.
I wonder if we can flip the tables and turn this into a moneymaker. The Milwaukee sanitation department dealt with a buildup of their human waste disposal problem in a unique way by scraping the pipes and processing it into a product called Milorganite. The name derived from “Milwaukee Organic Nitrate.” Check the shelves at most Home Depots and you’ll find it. It is one of the more inexpensive lawn fertilizers and works quite well! Granted the Milwaukee public works and a 2,000 mile long trail are two completely different animals. With that said, money is a handsome form of inspiration.
So here’s my plan - shared only amongst my fellow hiker entrepreneurs here looking to get in on the ground floor ;-). AT Nite: Appalachian Trail Nitrate fertilizer. We turn those piles of privy poop into piles of cash! OK… ok. We’ve got to work through the details, but I think the smell coming from those trail outhouses isn’t just hiker crap, but rather the smell of money!!! :-D
Nope, this needs the weight and talent of the ATC to address in a big way.This is not fixing a shelter roof.They need to be bold.
The easy answer is, don't start from Springer in Apr. Start some either place or time. Flip flopping is the best answer to overload.
Do you think all the crap will be gone if you make it to the south flop part of you flip? Probably not.
Do you think the privies north of Harpers Ferry can handle more than a small crowd of hikers starting at the middle? Probably not.
The trouble I have with campfires are the folks that carry a bottle in one hand and a Bible in the other.
You never know which one is talking.
This ^
If hiker's can't responsibly use shelters, remove them. Shelters consolidate use and the consolidation of bad hikers necessitate privies. Remove the shelters.
Looking beyond the hikers to fix the problem is short sighted. If you don't address it at the source you welcome further problems.
Caretakers at each shelter? I don't need a babysitter and I'll work to convert everyone who does so the AT remains unregimented and unrestricted as intended.
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