Need shuttle info to get to fontana dam

[Wolfmate]

I am trying to continue my hike where i left off, at fontana dam. I am planning on taking my four year old grandson with me. Could someone please help. I am planning on going around the 24th of may. I have already tried THE HIKE INN but they are unable because of my grandsons age. So if anyone has a carseat that can shuttle us from the nearest bus station to the hiker hilton i would greatly appreciate it.

[HooKooDooKu]

Can't help with the shuttle but I've got to question the notion of hiking with a 4yo. Have ya'lol done any hiking together? I've been hiking with my kids. I started with short day hikes and my 4yo really couldn't handle it. Tripped over the smallest root and had to hold his hand on the slightest down hill. By the time they were 6 we did OK on day hikes. At age 7 the could do overnights, but even then 1mpb was common.

Just trying to make sure you know what you're gettingyourself into.

[Wolfmate]

Ayden loves to backpack with me. I do not drive so i walk everywhere and he usually has no problem keeping up. We live near the mississippi levee bike path and we spend a lot of time "training" ayden for his trip. I tell you that boy is a natural hiker lol! I am only taking him through the smokies, his daddy is picking him up and dropping off my real hiking partner, my german shepherd Nadya. Thank you for the questioning though. I think that if ayden was any other kid this would not work.

Ps. The best thing he likes is us practicing the setting up camp in the back yard. He thinks sleeping in the hammock and cooking on the coffee can stove is cool.

[HooKooDooKu]

Glad to hear you've got an eager partner. My second son took to hiking earlier that the older. We started doing serious day hikes when he was 5 and did so well that soon after his 6th birthday he did the 8 mile AT/Boulevard trail to LeConte Lodge with us. By age 7 he was doing 10 mile per day trips carrying his own pack (I've always been willing to haul the shared gear, but the boys have always had to carry their own sleeping bag/pad and clothes).

[Wolfmate]

Ayden will be carrying his own clothes and snacks. He sleeps with me in a hammock so he is getting off easy. I was thinking of giving him the water filter and making that his job (with supervision) for our hike. It is great to have the very young get interested in being in the woods. I enjoy my hike so much more when i see it through his eyes.

[Farr Away]

Perhaps the Hike Inn could help if you brought Ayden's car seat with you on the bus? His dad could then pick it up from them on his way to meet you at the other side of the park.

Given Ayden's age, another possibility would be to pick up a cheap car seat wherever you meet the shuttle, and just donate it.

-FA

[Slo-go'en]

Also, remember in the Smokies you must sleep in the shelter and of course have reservations. Also keep in mind that hiking the Smokies is about 1000 times harder then a bike path along the Mississippi! You also better plan to go no farther then shelter to shelter so it's going to take a long time to make it through the park.

All in all, I think your making a serious mistake taking a 4 year old on such a hike. Since your son is meeting you at Davenport gap, I would have him come out a few days earlier and meet you at Gatlinburg with your grandson. Then bring the grand kid along for the last half of park. The trail north of New Found gap is significantly easier and you don't have the big climb out of Fontana to deal with. Meanwhile, your son could spend a few days in Gatlinburg or the Standing Bear hostel waiting for you.

[Wolfmate]

My son and i were discussing that. We have a few carseats and i can take it with me on the bus with us.

[Wolfmate]

Also, remember in the Smokies you must sleep in the shelter and of course have reservations. Also keep in mind that hiking the Smokies is about 1000 times harder then a bike path along the Mississippi! You also better plan to go no farther then shelter to shelter so it's going to take a long time to make it through the park.

All in all, I think your making a serious mistake taking a 4 year old on such a hike. Since your son is meeting you at Davenport gap, I would have him come out a few days earlier and meet you at Gatlinburg with your grandson. Then bring the grand kid along for the last half of park. The trail north of New Found gap is significantly easier and you don't have the big climb out of Fontana to deal with. Meanwhile, your son could spend a few days in Gatlinburg or the Standing Bear hostel waiting for you.

Thank you for the concern. I have already thought of how far he can go each day and had actually planned about 11 days to make it through. I do have a friend who is going to be in the smokies the next week renting a cabin and he is my backup plan in case ayden does not have a good time. But like i had said in an earlier post, ayden is a different kid. His training for hiking started this last summer when i lived in the bayou and he and i would take daily walks, around six to seven miles a day. He is a natural and loves to be out in the woods.

[Wolfmate]

Oh and the bike path that ayden and i use, we go up and down the steep sides to strengthen our legs. He loves that because he pushes me to keep up lol.

[HooKooDooKu]

He sleeps with me in a hammock ...

Then an AT section hike of GSMNP is out for ya'll...

Simply put, hammocks are not allowed at, in, on, or around GSMNP shelters.

Here's a rundown of the rules that apply:
1) In GSMNP, you can only camp at designated camp sites
2) With one exception, all the designated camp sites in GSMNP along the AT are shelters.
3) Tents are not allowed at, in, on, or around GSMNP shelters
4) GSMNP rules treat hammocks like tents.


The 'no tents/hammocks at shelters' rule has an exception for those hiking on a 'thru' permit. But to get a 'thru' permit, you must start and end your hike at least 50 miles outside of GSMNP (i.e. they are ment for thru hikers not section hikers) AND even then, the 'thru' hiker is only allowed to setup a tent/hammock if the shelter is full. The idea is that thru hikers can not anticipate the exact dates they will enter GSMNP and therefore not be able to make reservations for shelter spots on specific days. So the park service sets aside a limited number of spots at the shelters for thru hikers. Of course this means there will be days when more thru hikers arrive at a shelter than has been planned for. When this happens, the over-flow of thru hikers are allowed to setup a tent (or hammock) in the general vicinity of the shelter.

But a section hiker hikes on a 'general' permit and (in theory) has a reserved spot at the shelter and therefore must stay inside the shelter. (It's a whole nother discussion that's been hashed here before about what happens when a general purpose hiker arrives at a full shelter).

Another GSMNP rule that will also apply: In addition to hammocks being subject to tent rules, hammocks are not allowed to be attached to any building, shelter, or other structure in GSMNP. So you can't setup your hammock 'inside' the shelter and call that 'staying in the shelter'.



Now if your plan is to hike the BMT rather than the AT thru GSMNP, then you're good to go (with the exception of Laurel Gap shelter).

One minor detail you will also run into. I believe that permits are good for a maximum of 8 days. This is for 'thru' and 'general' permits. Not really a problem for general permits, as there is nothing wrong with getting back-to-back permits. It just affects the cost. 'General' permits cost $4 per person per day for a maximum of $20 ('thru' permits are a flat $20). But the 8 day maximum means that for day 9, you'll have to start all over with another $4 per person per day... and kids don't get to camp for free. So your net permit cost should be around $60 for the two of you.

[Wolfmate]

I knew that about the backcountry permit in the smokies. I figured we would have to get a few extra days worth. .
I thought that i would be considered to be a thru hiker since i am planning on going on with my dog after the smokies. I am going to go until the SNP, maybe further. Was i wrong about that?
As for the hammock, i have the ultra light handy hammock stand, so no need to use trees or anything else to hang my hammock. It would actually be considered a tent as i have a custom made tarp tent for it and the whole setup is free standing. If we have to sleep in the shelter then we use the sleeping bag, no problem.

[HooKooDooKu]

I knew that about the backcountry permit in the smokies. I figured we would have to get a few extra days worth. .
I thought that i would be considered to be a thru hiker since i am planning on going on with my dog after the smokies. I am going to go until the SNP, maybe further. Was i wrong about that?
As for the hammock, i have the ultra light handy hammock stand, so no need to use trees or anything else to hang my hammock. It would actually be considered a tent as i have a custom made tarp tent for it and the whole setup is free standing. If we have to sleep in the shelter then we use the sleeping bag, no problem.

To be eligible for a 'thru' permit, you have to 'Start' your hike AND 'End' your hike at least 50 miles outside of GSMNP. Since you are starting at the dam, you are not starting your hike 50 miles outside of the park. Like I mentioned above, the whole reason for the 'thru' permit was to balance the needs of thru hikers that don't know ahead of time the exact date they plan to enter GSMNP. Since you're starting at Fontana, you know exactly when you are going to enter the park so you're not eligible for a 'thru' permit.

Even if you were eligible for a thru, your grandson would not.

And the final nail in the coffin of getting a thru permit is your plans to take 11 days. Thru permits are only valid for 8 days (7 nights) from the day you enter the GSMNP.

So your plans are going to require 'general' permits and you'll need to plan to stay in the shelter.



However, still take your hammock as a backup. Should you get to a shelter and it's already full, you will need to have a 'Plan-B'.

The rules state that if a shelter is full, that thru hikers are supposed to give up their spot to hikers with reservations. You can obviously ask if anyone in a full shelter would like to setup a tent outside the shelter. But when you consider you have no authority to enforce the rules, you have no way of forcing anyone out of a shelter except thru intimidation. The general consensus has been that it's better to not confront anyone and simply setup your tent/hammock outside the shelter. If you are confronted by a ranger for camping outside of the shelter, you are unlikely to be fined if you have a legitimate permit and explain the above situation.

[Wolfmate]

Well i guess then it will be general permit. I was really looking forward to having one that says thru hiker as a momento of my trip . . As for the shelters, i have been reading up on them and they seem to fill up quickly. There is no way i would ask someone to move out to make room and it seems that the rangers are pretty nice so maybe we can get lucky and not have to stay in them. Either way we are going to be out there hiking our hike and having fun no matter where we have to sleep.

[Pitt Hiker]

Back to topic-- were you able to find any advice on getting to Fontana Dam? I too would like to start there...a bit earlier though, around May 15th. Need transport from Atlanta

[HooKooDooKu]

I was really looking forward to having one that says thru hiker as a momento of my trip

If you qualify as a thru hiker, I would think you could always get yourself one thru hiker permit plus a general permit for your days beyond 8... and get your grandson two general permits. Either way you would be paying the same.

[HooKooDooKu]

Back to topic-- were you able to find any advice on getting to Fontana Dam? I too would like to start there...a bit earlier though, around May 15th. Need transport from Atlanta

That's been discussed before, and there is not cheap commercial solution. There is nothing in place transportation wise to make it easy getting to the GSMNP for hikers.

About the only way to get there without driving your own car is to fly to Knoxville and use a rental car to get from the airport to GSMNP. But then, as a hiker, you would be paying for a car rental during the duration of your hike until you could return the rental to the airport (there's no rental car agencies around the GSMNP area except for local rentals... like little mopeds or jeeps so there are no way to do a one-way rental).

[HooKooDooKu]

I have already tried THE HIKE INN but they are unable because of my grandsons age.

Is it strictly because of his age (i.e. their insurance doesn't cover small children) or is it because of issues with car seats.

If it's simply an issue with car seats, you should be able to simply use a booster with a 4yo. Boosters do not have to be "installed", and it looks like car seat laws for TN and NC allow for boosters for a 4yo (i.e. they don't have to have a seat with a 5 point harness).

So if THE HIKE INN will do the job if you supply the car seat, worst case you buy a booster that you simply leave with THE HIKE INN like Farr Away suggested. Boosters can be had at Toys R Us for about $40-50 dollars (you'll spend more on permits).

[Wolfmate]

Back to topic-- were you able to find any advice on getting to Fontana Dam? I too would like to start there...a bit earlier though, around May 15th. Need transport from Atlanta

I would try the list of shuttles that they have. The hike inn is the closest to fontana so maybe try to email them with your request. I am emailing them about the reason why they cant take ayden, if it is because of the carseat issue. Hopefully that is all it is because i can bring and leave a carseat. It does take a day to get a response back but they have been very nice about responding to all my questions. Hopefully they can help you or maybe refer someone to you.

[lush242000]

Is this a joke? Taking a 4yr old through the GSMNP?


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