Started one year with 28 lbs. Came back the next year with 18. Lighter is better.
ULA Ohm 2.0
BA Flycreek UL1
WM Highlight
Neoair
I think I'll go ahead and start with my 25 lb base wt. and let things settle out the 1st couple of weeks. I admit to carrying too many what ifs, but I really won't know until I get out there.
It's very possible! I wouldn't have thought so a decade ago, either, though. My gear isn't all "ultralight", and last fall my pack for 7 days while prepared for temps as low as 0F was <30lbs on day 1 including 2L of water. No sacrificing what I consider creature comforts, either, except for my Tarptent Notch lacking interior room(I'm just there to sleep, though).Originally Posted by The Splitter
After looking at your list, I would consider switching:
-the board shorts for some meshy athletic ones. My board shorts weigh 7.5oz, while my athletic shorts weight 4.25oz. Both are standard fare with no thought for weight going into buying them, so I don't know how others would compare.
-the MSR filter for a Sawyer Squeeze, and the Nalgenes for Evernew /Platypus bags or Smartwater bottles. A Sawyer with "dirty" bag and two "clean" bags or bottles will weigh less than your filter alone does, so there's the weight of 2 Nalgenes, at least 10-12oz, saved.
-the 2 Maxpedition Anemone pouches at 3.6oz/ea for Ziploc 1qt freezer bags at ~1/4oz/ea saves 6.7oz.
-the Compression sacks for regular stuff sacks-buckles and straps double the weight.
-the mini firestarter logs for 7g hexamine tabs.
-the Atom LT with a down jacket, and have more warmth, plus save a few oz.
-the Arc'teryx pack cover, which lists at 7.2oz. A trash compactor bag is ~2oz, and at 3.6oz, even my 55L OR waterproof pack liner is half the pack cover's weight.
-For the money you're willing to spend on a tent, they've got all kinds of cuben shelters, but it sounds like you want more durability than they afford. You can get a 1p Tarptent that weighs less than that Hilleberg Enan for less than half the cost, though. Actually, you can get a 2p Tarptent, and still be just as light for less than half the cost.
I think you can find a much ligher pack. I would use Gatorade bottles for water as well.
I have to argue with the content of this post. I have seen it lots of times and Mr. Clelland is just plain wrong. And following advise like his frequently endangers lives. Just the opposite is what wilderness sense and safety considerations require.
Even in regards to a trail as benign as the AT and way out of bounds for the tougher trails and backpacking conditions. I have thru hiked the AT as well as dozens of section hikes of it. I have come across dehydrated hikers many times and had to share water with them. This was due to following this very approach. When it is 95 degrees or more in the mid-Atlantic and you are sweating buckets it is easy to get in trouble. I have seen times in VA in the summer in a dry spell that expected water sources are dry and you end up hiking much further than you planned to the next water source. Where I hike now (Arizona) to take this advise would frequently be lethal and people die here every year for lack of water on the hiking trails right inside Phoenix.
One should always plan on having water left when they reach the next source and the amount left should be dependent on where the next water supply after that is (some times a cup or two and sometimes a liter or more - here in AZ I know of hikers who have arrived at a water source that was dry and the next one was a day away). During my AT thru hike a woman I knew broke an ankle and lay on the trail for some hours until other hikers found her and carried her to a trail head. What if she had no water and it was 95-100 deg?
I admit I take issues like this very seriously and that the AT is an easy place to hike compared to many, but the situation can change fast and you can get in trouble on any trail. Always plan for adverse conditions.
There is nothing wrong with carrying just enough water to reach the next source.
You should be 100% sure that source is reliable though. And know your own water needs for the weather and terrain. Having contingency plans doesnt hurt either.
That also doesnt mean you reach the next source dehydrated. You reach it well hydrated, and drinking your last drop when you get there. If you have to press on, you are in good position to do so.
If you are guessing, or hoping, or dont know your requirements, that is poor planning. This is what most people that get in trouble are guilty of i suspect. If you reach an unexpected dry source already dehydrated, you are in trouble.
If you arent 100% sure, err on side of caution.
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 04-25-2015 at 14:56.
Hiking involves a certain level of risk and we all need to adjust what we carry based on our perception of the risks.
We should also pay attention to what our bodies required under certain conditions and learn what we need to carry.
For instance, when I started my PCT hike, faced with my first 25-mile water carries in the desert, I would tank up with seven liters of water. Man, that's heavy. But I'd arrive at the next water fully hydrated with two liters of extra water. By the time I reached the Hat Creek Rim, a 30+ mile carry, I hiked it with four liters and arrived fully hydrated with no extra water and that was good. A few years later I hiked the Arizona Trail, where 40+ mile carries with dry camps were routine (I did one at 47 miles) and I carried six or seven liters depending on temp and trail profile.
So when I hiked the AT and saw people carrying three liters, obviously struggling on the grades in 40+ pound packs, when there was guaranteed water every five miles, it was a little surprising. I thought carrying the extra weight was risky--it could cause injury, as well as take more food and time to carry it. My perceived risk was very different than theirs.
"Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning
The problem with giving people guidelines like "always arrive at your next water source with X amount of water" is that people lose focus on what is important. You should hydrate and I'd rather carry water in my body than on my back.
Also... I don't even give thought to how much water I'm carrying in the PNW. Well....rarely do I think about it. Sometimes you are walking a long ridgeline and you know that you are going to need to carry some water. If you plan to camp there you better carry enough for that. There is water everywhere and like garlic08, once you have hiked long waterless sections in the desert you certainly have to approach that with a different outlook than you do hiking the AT. I rarely considered water when hiking the AT simple because it is available virtually everywhere.
Also... there really is not much reason to have a base weight over 13-15 lbs on the AT. If you carry more than that recognize that some of it is unnecessary. If you want to carry camp shoes, camera, books, extra clothing, guitar or a grand piano...... that is a value choice. For typical 3-season weather on most of the AT you can easily have a base pack weight around 13-15 lbs without getting too nutty on ultra-light equipment choices.
I personally have a bad habit of not drinking enough. Ill routinely go 10 miles without taking a sip, even when carrying 2L water. You can get pretty dehydrated and keep walking.
I have suffered some minor confusion, probably related to this before.
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 04-25-2015 at 20:54.
Man, that would be awesome. Think of the trail name possibilities. "Here comes 'Steinway'!" Or just "Baby Grand" would be a great trail name.
MY GAWD! You are carrying TWO vials of SuperGlue! No Wonder you're overloaded!
Just Kidding.
Here's my ideas.
Weigh everything. Write a list up. Load it in geargrams, whatever. Just track it. Sounds corny but just like a check book it really does help.
Trade the Nalgenes in on smart water bottle or gatorade and a wide mouth bladder (maybe 2l?)Wide mouth can be filled in stream or trickling stream for camp duties, bath etc.
Pull the center out of the toilet paper. Take it down to about 1/4 roll. store in Ziploc.
Lose the trowel. Tent Peg or stick it.
Lose the body wash and hand sanitizer. Dawn soap is good for all that.
Drop the 5L compression bag for the tent. Put the tent in the 20liter bag. with the sleeping bag and carry the fly outside of it folded/rolled with inside in to keep semi dry if it won't fit in bag with other stuff.
Drop the pillow. Use clothes, hoody in compression bag. etc.
Drop the fork.
Drop the Max pouches. Use ziplocks.
Drop the deodorant, fire starter logs, and do you really need the cr123 batteries if you start with afresh set? Just one set of spares at most.
- Drop the Small Terrycloth & switch to a chamois or camp towel.
Drill holes through tooth brush handle to lighten it. (JUST KIDDING!)
Switch 2 bics for mini bics. One in your pocket instead of in pack for just in case. (What if you meet a good looking member of the opposite sex that needs a light? You don't want to be dicking around in your pack while some other hiker bum steps up with the flame.)
Keep the compass. But get a light one (but still decent quality) Wake up and walk the wrong way on a trail a couple of miles one foggy morning to learn this.
Painkiller for headaches and body aches will help a nights sleep in your first aid kit.
Trade the paracord out for some of that fancy dyneema/ spectra stuff. Splurge and get nite eyez and you can see it at night. Also get extra and switch the tent ropes to it to avoid tripping over the tent lines in the middle of the night on a nature run. (You'll still trip over the damn thing but now you'll be able to see what you tripped over!)
I use the neo air but the ridgerest sure looks inviting also.
Carry the stuff you want. My first pack after I weighed it per the group here was 52 pounds! (that counted the six pack of bud lite and frozen steak and a potato for the first night though. I try to keep it around 30 for 5 days and am happy with the way it rides in my Catalyst.
My 1 1/2 cents,
Rolex
Good detail advice. Trust me when I say that many of the things you "thought" you needed will drop by the wayside after the first 300 miles. If you don't find yourself using something, drop it.
This is something you typically have to learn the hard way. You don't need extra batteries and all these emergency fix items. I've lived long sections of trail without a flashlight, spoon and/or a repair kit for my sleeping matt. It isn't a life or death item and you can fix most things with duct tape and paracord. You don't need a big detailed first aid kit. Most of the stuff that comes in a first aid kit is useless, especially if you don't have any training on how to use it. You are not going into the deep wilderness on the AT. Somebody will be coming along every couple hours (or less) in most cases. If you break an ankle or have the big one, somebody will help you. You can always mooch food, stove fuel, or some other needed item if it came down to a real need.
When I hiked it we had this guy whose trail name was Marlboro Man. He was dirt poor and had saved up for all his gear by saving Marlboro cartons. Evidently you could trade in cartons box proofs of purchase for Marlboro items that included at the time a backpack, tent, sleeping bag, etc....etc.... and so all his gear was branded by that hated tobacco company. His main source of calories when I met him was a single squeeze bottle of margarine and a few candy bars. He mooched most of the way I think and earned his keep because he was so incredibly funny. Nobody felt put-out by sharing a meal with the guy. I certainly didn't. It is a Grandma Gatewood story. You don't need as much as you think and one of the cool things about hiking the AT is you really learn what things you NEED to live and what ones are just nice to have.
?? I assume you miswrote what you intended? The entire point of the water (and food type issues) is that they ARE what's important. That was why I responded to the very bad advise. There is advise often given in hiking forums which ignores basic safety sense. Sure on the AT there are times and places where the water supplies are so frequent that carrying many liters of water is not called for. But it is also very true that many people on the AT do not carry as much as safety and basic hydration needs require. As I stated before I have had to provide water on the AT many times to hikers who were out of water and in real need. In giving bad advise to very inexperienced hikers (as many on the AT are) it is easy to train them to do the wrong thing elsewhere where it can kill them. All people out in the mountains need to be taught to respect where they are and plan for things going wrong.
If garlic08 had arrived at his stop on the PCT just finishing his water and that source had been dry it would have been very bad. But if he was "certain" that it would have water maybe not - but then again it might have been a 95 deg day and 5 miles before the water stop that he drank the last of his water and then stumbled and broke his ankle and was going to be waiting for help from other hikers or spending the next 10 hours trying to get to the water source. Things happen.
It is the same story with being prepared for being cold and wet and not getting hypothermia. Sometimes the AT is like a park and sometimes it's not. We need to be careful advising newbies in the outdoors to carry almost nothing as their lack of experience can lead to them making decisions which could get them in trouble. What really experienced people can get away with is often very different than what a newbie should be doing. On my 06 thru of the AT a guy I hiked with was about 2 miles from a shelter as dusk approached and it was driving rain, windy and cold. He finds a young hiker laying in the trail semi-conscious and shivering - hypothermia. The kid would have died if he had not come along. Poor preparation and poor training can get you anywhere.
I am a little hard core on these types of things as I have seen so many people get hurt or die over not making sound decisions over safety issues. I also hike by myself almost all the time and when you have no one to save you but yourself you get a bit more serious about it.
We should all caveat our advise and point out its limits/exceptions, and especially admit that much of what we say about gear and what is best are opinions and not facts.
Looks like you also have almost a pound in compression sacks and nearly two pounds of outer layers between the hoody and hard shell. You could pare those down to lighten the load if that's your desire...but in the end it's about how you hike, what makes you comfortable doing so, and the resulting tradeoff between weight/comfort.
The AT is a veritable ocean of water.
But, 5 miles without water, is a long way to an out of shape person carrying a heavy load that only hikes 5 mpd.
10 miles without water, is a long way to many that only hike 10 mpd.
To those that hike 20+ mpd, 10 miles without water sources is negligible short distance.
Its all perspective.
You can do some shake-down hikes to determine what you really don't need to have with you. Do you pull out the big knife because you need it to open that package of cheese sauce, or because it's the knife you brought? Using your gear on over nighters can help you figure that out.
I think MuddyWaters pretty much nailed it. It all depends on your experience/conditioning and circumstances.
The area and circumstances dictate how much of a safety margin you need. Thirty five mile stretches in the remote desert are a lot different than the AT which is hard to describe as wilderness. In some circumstances you carry extra because the consequences of running short are drastic. In others... you don't have to be as concerned because there is plenty of room for error. You cannot assume the same attitude for every situation.
I never want to arrive at a water source out of water. Granted I'm a bit like Wyoming on the safety stuff, but I like to arrive at a water source with enough water to get me to the next water source (even if it's behind me), so that means I'm normally leaving a water source with 2L of water, 3L on very hot summer days when I'm sweating like a pig. Last fall I ended a day at a campground with a well known, reliable stream next to it and the thing was bone dry even though it had rained the previous day. This was after a long dry summer. No need to be crazy, just be a little more thoughtful on the water front.
Last time I weighed in on a water debate I was called arrogant. I am not arrogant. I can be stupid. I will prove it now by weighing in again. Water is more critical than food. You can go longer without food than you can water. You can do damage to your body by depriving it of water in the name of saving weight. Having said that, I agree with those that attempt to be running out of water as you approach the next reliable water source. Finding the locations of reliable water sources is not that difficult. Thousands of people have already gone where you are going. They have noted these locations. My journal is a bunch of 3x5 cards. On one side I write my daily thoughts. The other side is an elevation profile of the day's walk with water sources and distances marked on them. If I go too far (I am never behind schedule), I have to work off 2 cards. It is easy to carry the proper amount of water if you are willing to research and plan. It is unwise to not carry enough. Therefore, if you are unwilling to plan, plan on carrying too much water. You are just guessing. If you guess wrong, you could be in big trouble.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. - Abraham Lincoln
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote