Anti trail vandalism post goes viral on FB

[4eyedbuzzard]

Saw this article on a man, Brett Nelson, who happened upon some vandals while on a hike in a National Forest in Oregon (Tumalo Falls in Deschutes NF) http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ment/70914244/ The father vandal was allowing his vandal spawn, both son and daughter, to carve their name in a hand rail. So the hiker asked the father to instruct them to stop, and the father refused. The hiker then, with their permission, took a pic of them and he posted it to FB https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...5714223&type=1 for all to see. The post is getting A LOT of attention and shares. USFS is also investigating.

Where, I ask, has it ever been okay to do crap like this? I just don't get how these people were raised . . .

[MuddyWaters]

The acorn dont fall far from the tree.

[Trailweaver]

Prosecuted? I certainly hope so.

[Starchild]

I do wonder how much of this vandalism is backlash from being too restrictive and too condescending. One line was

No Woodsy Owl needed for Nelson's closing slogan: Teach your kids to respect property and take huge pride in our public parks.

Teach them to respect property? Well it is their property, public parks are all our property. But it is not treated like it is our property, we are, in general, treated like nuances, given rules to minimize the harm we do.

LNT is horrible to this respect, it comes across as anything we do out there is just bad.

The principals I first learned was called land stewardship, not LNT. It was basically we are the stewards of the land for all that come later, their experience is thus in our hands. It is empowering, not demeaning, it gives a sense of ownership and pride, not a sense of guilt.

In this their is a balance, you can't expect respect if you don't give it. Them and others carving their name may be showing that this is their park too, their uncaring a result of the uncaring rules that were placed on them, and this a attempt to claim a piece of their park that their ownership was denied.

[wornoutboots]

Unfortunately the picture doesn't show them doing anything wrong. No case, just happy lawyers.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Unfortunately the picture doesn't show them doing anything wrong. No case, just happy lawyers.

The law is the least of their worries. These sorts of viral internet condemnations often cause enough backlash to ruin people's lives. It's one reason that you won't find me reposting stories like this. Not that I'd defending the family in any way, but the court of public opinion is likely to punish them far in excess of their crimes.

Here's one example of how easily this sort of thing can happen: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/02/15..._r=2&referrer=

[imscotty]

Here's one example of how easily this sort of thing can happen: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/02/15..._r=2&referrer=

Sarcasm, a great article. Thanks for posting.

[BirdBrain]

The law is the least of their worries. These sorts of viral internet condemnations often cause enough backlash to ruin people's lives. It's one reason that you won't find me reposting stories like this. Not that I'd defending the family in any way, but the court of public opinion is likely to punish them far in excess of their crimes.

Here's one example of how easily this sort of thing can happen: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/02/15..._r=2&referrer=

The reaction to her actions were certainly disproportionate and absurd. Each time I see a ridiculous result to bad choice or relatively minor legal infraction, I can't help but think that if the person did not choose to act like an idiot then none of this would ever have happened. That does not mean I believe the disproportionate reaction is justifiable. It just means that there is often an easy way to avoid such a ridiculous reaction. Don't act like an idiot.

Here is an example. I do not speed. I do not run if I am pulled over. I do not break laws. I say yes sir and no sir to people in authority. Therefore, I bring my odds of ever being beat up by a cop having a bad day down to almost zero. That does not mean that I do not believe that bad cops don't deserve to be punished. I just means I can avoid that bad scene easily.

For the most part, if you don't have a huge ego and a chip on your shoulder and if you play by the rules and if you respect authorities, you can avoid many horrible things that happen to some people.

[Tipi Walter]

I was backpacking thru Slickrock Creek wilderness in 2011 and found a fir tree girdled with this wonderful sight---


Anybody know who LEVI is??

[rocketsocks]

Yeah I know who he is, but I'm not allowed to say those kinda words here in this forum.

[rocketsocks]

The reaction to her actions were certainly disproportionate and absurd. Each time I see a ridiculous result to bad choice or relatively minor legal infraction, I can't help but think that if the person did not choose to act like an idiot then none of this would ever have happened. That does not mean I believe the disproportionate reaction is justifiable. It just means that there is often an easy way to avoid such a ridiculous reaction. Don't act like an idiot.

Here is an example. I do not speed. I do not run if I am pulled over. I do not break laws. I say yes sir and no sir to people in authority. Therefore, I bring my odds of ever being beat up by a cop having a bad day down to almost zero. That does not mean that I do not believe that bad cops don't deserve to be punished. I just means I can avoid that bad scene easily.

For the most part, if you don't have a huge ego and a chip on your shoulder and if you play by the rules and if you respect authorities, you can avoid many horrible things that happen to some people.

i particularly like this comment by one poster.

...I deleted my FaceBook account last year for the simple reason that I didn't trust myself not to be glib. I'm flippant by nature....

[Walkintom]

The reaction to her actions were certainly disproportionate and absurd. Each time I see a ridiculous result to bad choice or relatively minor legal infraction, I can't help but think that if the person did not choose to act like an idiot then none of this would ever have happened. That does not mean I believe the disproportionate reaction is justifiable. It just means that there is often an easy way to avoid such a ridiculous reaction. Don't act like an idiot.

Here is an example. I do not speed. I do not run if I am pulled over. I do not break laws. I say yes sir and no sir to people in authority. Therefore, I bring my odds of ever being beat up by a cop having a bad day down to almost zero. That does not mean that I do not believe that bad cops don't deserve to be punished. I just means I can avoid that bad scene easily.

For the most part, if you don't have a huge ego and a chip on your shoulder and if you play by the rules and if you respect authorities, you can avoid many horrible things that happen to some people.

I agree with this sort of social strategy. It's the sort of thing that I practice as well.

[RED-DOG]

Theirs nothing wrong with carving your name on a hand rail, shelter. THIS IS A NONE ISSUE.
theirs more important issues we can discuss beside this petty crap.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I was backpacking thru Slickrock Creek wilderness in 2011 and found a fir tree girdled with this wonderful sight---


Anybody know who LEVI is??

looks like they were trying to write EVIL but got the letters mixed up.

[OCDave]

... I do not speed. I do not run if I am pulled over. I do not break laws. I say yes sir and no sir to people in authority. Therefore, I bring my odds of ever being beat up by a cop having a bad day down to almost zero. That does not mean that I do not believe that bad cops don't deserve to be punished. I just means I can avoid that bad scene easily....

I am not trying to be inflammatory however, there are American citizens who behave very much as you do but have a very different experience with less than perfect law enforcement officers. Perhaps there are characteristics that you have that allow you to "avoid that bad scene" more easily than others without those characteristic?

[Uriah]

Theirs nothing wrong with carving your name on a hand rail, shelter. THIS IS A NONE ISSUE.
theirs more important issues we can discuss beside this petty crap.

Well, it's considered wrong by those who placed it there and by the entities who manage the land ('cause, as we all know, land needs management...it wasn't until man arrived, billions of years into Earth's lifespan, when the land could finally be managed!).

I myself find it difficult to fault people who leave their names written or carved into a bridge or a shelter or a sign. The structures are man-made and an embodiment of people's presence in nature, such as we call it. Funny that it's considered "vandalizing" or "destruction" when someone engraves a mad-made structure, but "development" or "progress" when the structure gets set there in the first place.

[rocketsocks]

Theirs nothing wrong with carving your name on a hand rail, shelter. THIS IS A NONE ISSUE.
theirs more important issues we can discuss beside this petty crap.

sorry, but it is a issue...it's also illegal, selfish, pig headed, and ugly.

[Pedaling Fool]

The law is the least of their worries. These sorts of viral internet condemnations often cause enough backlash to ruin people's lives. It's one reason that you won't find me reposting stories like this. Not that I'd defending the family in any way, but the court of public opinion is likely to punish them far in excess of their crimes.

Here's one example of how easily this sort of thing can happen: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/02/15..._r=2&referrer=

Stories like that just go to prove that there are so many emotionally immature people and then you just got the hateful people.

People are always criticizing lawmakers for not keeping the laws up to date with technology, but ignore how the public are equally, if not more, behind the ever-changing technology. Just as the laws need to catch up, the emotionally challenged need to change their ways; it'll happen, but will take time.

Then you got the hateful people, but that's a different issue....

[Tipi Walter]

Well, it's considered wrong by those who placed it there and by the entities who manage the land ('cause, as we all know, land needs management...it wasn't until man arrived, billions of years into Earth's lifespan, when the land could finally be managed!).

I myself find it difficult to fault people who leave their names written or carved into a bridge or a shelter or a sign. The structures are man-made and an embodiment of people's presence in nature, such as we call it. Funny that it's considered "vandalizing" or "destruction" when someone engraves a mad-made structure, but "development" or "progress" when the structure gets set there in the first place.

Pretty much agree on this---man made structures, especially in a national park or national forest, wilderness etc---are in themselves acts of vandalism.

Ergo the App Trail shelter system could be considered a heavy impact act of human cleverness and even vandalism. Engraving on a shelter is a non-issue. Dismantle all of them in my opinion---eyesores and rat boxes.

Ed Abbey says it best---

"Why is it that the destruction of something created by humans is called vandalism, yet the destruction of something created by God is called development?"

[BirdBrain]

I am not trying to be inflammatory however, there are American citizens who behave very much as you do but have a very different experience with less than perfect law enforcement officers. Perhaps there are characteristics that you have that allow you to "avoid that bad scene" more easily than others without those characteristic?

My characteristics have nothing to do with it. My actions determine my outcome. Again, I am not defending the indefensible actions of some. I am saying I can reduce my odds of a bad scene greatly. I carry zero pride into interaction. With authorities. I am going to do anything they tell me. That will not eliminate any chance of a bad scene. It will reduce the odds greatly. I would debate this further. However, those that grasp what I am saying don't requite it and those that have a bias will not be convinced.