It's all labeling. Though blind men have hiked the AT, no one is capable of hiking it without the use of his or her hands. Footpath, my ass!Originally Posted by Lone Wolf
Looks like he hasn't sent out a signal since 3:05 and has only moved roughly 13 miles from Galehead, maybe an afternoon nap, or his GPS beacon isn't working?
That's what JPD said and I have no reason to doubt her word. If I'm recalling correctly she said she averaged a fast walking/hiking pace but she did run some.
Rob please read my post, which is just my opinion, carefully in context of the entire post. I said, "All these FKTs will eventually be running records not hiking records." That's the way FKTs are moving - towards greater amounts of running. When will that eventually occur? IMO, when ultra runners/trail runner can find ways to keep up their super high MPD avgs over a longer duration day after day week after week on the longer distance FKT routes/trails. That is also why when JPD stated she mostly walked it was my immediate thought it wouldn't be long before her record would be eclipsed. The days of Anish's hiking record are numbered too as, from what I know, it was also achived with a fast hiking/walking strategy.
I was also making my comments NOT just as it pertains to FKTs on the AT but in general. If you extensively peruse the FKT Proboards website - http://fastestknowntime.proboards.com/ - the vast majority of reported FKTs have occurred/been reported on much shorter routes/trails than the almost 2200 mile AT. These shorter distance routes/trails FKTs are even more ripe to fall when those FKTs have been achieved under hiking/walking/backpacking scenarios/strategies. When one can do without sleep or the most minimalist amount of sleep while STILL maintaining OVERALL high MPD avgs WHILE moving at a fast/faster pace(RUNING) we'll see more running and more records fall. Look at where this is going is what I'm trying to convey! Look a the FKT fever in running mags! It's HOT in the RUNNING world! FKTs are being taken over by the running elite. These FKT will become running records.
Gps shows movement at 8:49 jus East of US Route 302..
If we think hiking is analyzed try running. In the running world time is much more a priority than in hiking/backpacking. Time is obsessed upon in the running world. When the running world figures things out more, as they have been, more and more FKTs will be held by those who run.
These guys run very little.
There is very little terrain suitable for running
4mph isnt running, its fast walking.
A 50 mile 18 hr day, is less than 3mph average. Just do the math.
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 07-03-2015 at 21:08.
That depends on the task at hand. For an AT sized effort, absolutely. Look at something smaller, though, and you'll see terrain that seems unsuitable for running being tackled significantly faster than 4mph. For a quick example, look at the GSMNP. The FKT there is set at a nearly 5mph average pace. Not bad for some solid climbs and 71 miles.
From all that I note, one of the chief reasons why FKT seekers have support teams is so that the support team can carry the gear/most of the food, do camp set-ups/break downs, etc . When one can hike, run, crawl, whatever WITHOUT the need for sleep it eliminates things like sleep system, shelter, etc so IMO there's less need for a support team at nominal distances. Where support teams will have greater use is on the longest distance routes/trails. It's my assertion, what we'll see on shorter distance trails/routes are non supported FKT times closely in line with supported FKTs. The elite runners going after FKTs seeking any FKT designation will find very attractive ripe for the picking so called unsupported FKTs done in backpacking non running fashion!
"There is very little terrain suitable for running"
Really? It is called trail running. The well maintained wider tread well blazed/well marked AT would be some trail runner's dream compared to the trails/routes some trail runners regularly traverse.
Looks like a slow moving day today, only about 16 miles covered in the 12 hours since he left galehead.
If they were running, an 18 hr day would be 80+ miles, not 50.
You can do that at the end, when you can risk exhaustion and injury.
yeah, they call it trail running, but all but the most elite runners, actually walk uphill.
Same for ultras, running/walking alternating has been proven faster than just running for most people. Not to mention naps.
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 07-03-2015 at 22:01.
if so, then to me its evidence of what was already obvious- limiting your options for places to stop for the night is an inherently inferior approach. he burned himself up getting to the end points he needed to get to (as opposed to pulling up way short) the past couple nights, now is either too spent to do big miles or can't do enough to get to a far away stopping point so is taking it easy to deliberately pull up short. going north from galehead is easy terrain once youve climbed south twin too.
11 pm and looks like he just passed Mt. Jackson so about 20 miles so far today....will he go till the sun comes up ?
Moses is my 2012 Trail name and was given to me at Fontana Dam
11:39pm appears to be at Mizpah Springs Hut and heading for Mount Clinton. 6.1 to Mount Washington. Then 13.5 to NH 16. He is bound to hit then van there for a break. Then 21.1 to Gorham without another road crossing. He will have less than 300 miles to go when he reaches US 2. Go Scott go!
Looks like he may have stopped at the Mizpah Spring Hut for the night at 11:30 pm. That would be a 21 miles from Gailhead.
Actually, if the GPS track in accurate, he has not yet made it to the hut as of the last ping at 11:39.
What does everyone think, is he going to push on tonight? Weather seems to be okay for a night hike. It sure would be wild to wake up on the 4th to see him at Pinkham Notch.
I think he's taking a respite at Mitzpah. I hope he gets enough rest and food to refill his tank and ease his jangled skeleton. The Whites are tough territory.
The more miles, the merrier!
NH4K: 21/48; N.E.4K: 25/67; NEHH: 28/100; Northeast 4K: 27/115; AT: 124/2191
Look at the Leadville 100. (the only 100 I've finished actually)
If you can do it in under 25 hours, you get the large belt buckle
If you can do it in under 30 hours, you get the small one.
Out of the aprox 400 runners the year I did it, about 30 got the large buckle and about 150 got the small one.
That's 30 out of 400 (somewhat) elite runners doing 4 miles per hour on tough terrain at elevation.
Scott is at the top of that game.
Anyway, I have only two rules when it comes to ultras: Always walk the uphills, and always run the downhills. (although I think I walked a steep one at mile 97 that year)(don't remember exactly those last few miles)
Don't let your fears stand in the way of your dreams
On short trails what they do is carry a sol emergency bivy for shelter, light poncho, nut butters, socks. And these days, a spot.
Their support consists of food, socks, first aid,someone to work on their feet, a tent and sleeping gear. They might nap a couple hrs at most and then continue.
The shorter the trail, the harder they can push and go with lack of sleep.
Hallucinations are a real threat to safety. Although they can be entertaining if the athlete knows they are hallucinating.
Experienced 100 mile ultra runners are used to coping with physioligical limits issues. Its different though when you have a pace runner to look out for you, and race staff at stations to evaluate you, than when you are by yourself of a mountain trail. Its not hard to die. You CAN fall asleep while walking, and walk right to your death. The team approach helps here.
Usually not going to push really hard where these thing become issues until last day or two. Mentally and physically burning out can an result from pushing too hard, too soon. You have to pace yourself most of the way.
You might get 100 miles on feet like this, but no farther, and it will kill a fkt attempt. Dont underestimate benefits of supported vs non-supported, even on shorter trails.
2015-07-04_05.41.11.jpg
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 07-04-2015 at 06:56.
at the risk of getting dragged into the running vs walking argument- 21 miles in 14.5 hours definitely isnt running. thats a SLOW walk, unless he took a very long rest somewhere in the middle.
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