Shelter etiquette question.....I think I got bamboozled :(

[rickb]

On the issue of strangers.... As an Aesop pointed out in his fable, you will likely find the same type of people you expect to find. Change your expectations and you will find different types of people.

Agreed to a point.

That said, I expect many of us have been far more accommodating to oddballs (for lack of a better word) on the Trail and at shelters than we migh have otherwise been in another environment.

Why? Because after a while those shelters become like home and we adopt a more tolerant attitude because everyone is an oddball, really - or you are just too tired to deal with it. I can think of more than a couple times when a common sense would have had me push on rather than accept the situation as it were.

It is also important to remember, that the mix of people (and numbers of them) changes rather dramatically in the off season-- those times of year where you might actually end up sharing a shelter with just one other person.
This is particularly true outside of the marquis areas along the AT.

Seldom do you see he context of a person's stay in these discussions. Big difference between a Nobo's experience and that af a lagging Southbounder.

You also never see comments that while violence along the trail remains rare (though not as rare as some believe, IMHO), most of it has either happened at a shelter, or (to a lesser extent) followed an interaction between victim and criminal at one. That is a simple fact-- in most cases those rare tragedies did not begin with someone jumping out behind a tree along the pathway but rather at a shelter.

So yes, expect the best-- but be smart. Especially if you are hiking off season in a less popular area either by yourself, or asart of a M/F couple.

[rafe]

We've drifted far from the OP's specific concern, that's partly my fault. I was reacting to Lnj's concern about sleeping with strangers and having her bubble burst. I probably took the needle reference wrong. Liked what Elf and AT Traveler had to say.

RickB brings up rightful concerns I suppose. As an adult male I've been privileged to mostly ignore them.

[Lnj]

All I can say to your statement is wow!

2015 Lady Thru Hiker - Sorry if you took offense. I speak more joke than seriousness. I didn't mean any harm. I just laugh at myself often. It's my form of humor. That and sarcasm. Please forgive.

[Lnj]

The A.T. isn't wilderness. But it is tough, you've got that part right. Once you get on the trail and away from internet posters you will find that the shelters don't take away much of anything, they're mostly just a stack of logs or rough cut boards off of a side trail.

The A.T. is wilderness light and it has been since it was created. It's awesome for what it is, no need to imagine that it's something else... As for "wilderness" there are plenty of places where you can travel off trail once you are sufficiently experienced. Real East coast wilderness is savage and spectacular, it's something to be experienced, but get plenty of time on a more forgiving trail under your belt before you try it.

Sarcasm Elf - Agreed. I was just saying that, TO ME, suburbanite extraordinaire, the AT will be wilderness. When I have enough miles and years under by belt and I feel it isn't anymore, then I will head "off-road". I am not trying to run before I crawl. I am actually just really looking forward to the crawl.

[Lnj]

Lnj, I don't know where you're getting your info about the AT. I've been on and about the AT for some 40 years now, never seen anyone with a needle. Smokeables, for sure. Needles, never.

Yes, you will meet "strangers." That's part of the adventure. 99% of the folks you meet on the trail are good folks. If they have long hair, dirty clothes, beards and/or smell bad, that's par for the course.

ROTL LOL!!!! It was a figure of speech, in reference to t he fact that I know I am thinking in a fantasy bubble.... as in don't burst my bubble with your needle of reality...???

I am also looking forward to the meeting of other people and hearing of there experiences and such. I just don't want to be in a campground setting too often with people all around me and certainly not in a shelter. Our family goes camping about once a month and we love it, but I just want this to be a different type of experience, ya know?

[Lnj]

All, please believe I am not being snooty about meeting other people, but I am a bit shy (in person) and meeting new people and sitting around a campfire or even a shelter and sharing funny and horror stories and enjoying each other's company is one thing, and I'm all for it, but sleeping butt to butt with someone I met 10 minutes ago is altogether different (for me at least).

As far as the dirty and smelling and long hair and beards go.... well... I will be the dirtiest and smelliest of them all. Who can judge a person's cleanliness in this environment? I have long hair as well... but my beard only grows when I forget to tweeze.

[BirdBrain]

All, please believe I am not being snooty about meeting other people, but I am a bit shy (in person) and meeting new people and sitting around a campfire or even a shelter and sharing funny and horror stories and enjoying each other's company is one thing, and I'm all for it, but sleeping butt to butt with someone I met 10 minutes ago is altogether different (for me at least).

As far as the dirty and smelling and long hair and beards go.... well... I will be the dirtiest and smelliest of them all. Who can judge a person's cleanliness in this environment? I have long hair as well... but my beard only grows when I forget to tweeze.

You will do fine. Embrace the fun. Ignore the noise... on the trail and in here. It is hard. I fail in that advice often.

Gratuitous note: Love the signature. I would add that God WILL, but sometimes it does not line up with our will.

[Lnj]

You will do fine. Embrace the fun. Ignore the noise... on the trail and in here. It is hard. I fail in that advice often.

Gratuitous note: Love the signature. I would add that God WILL, but sometimes it does not line up with our will.

Thanks BirdBrain. I will do that. Just want to enjoy the conversations and not come off different that I intend.
I agree completely on the God's WILL statement. So we will pray and take off and see what HE has in store for us, KNOWING that it will totally fine, no matter what.

[2015 Lady Thru-Hiker]

2015 Lady Thru Hiker - Sorry if you took offense. I speak more joke than seriousness. I didn't mean any harm. I just laugh at myself often. It's my form of humor. That and sarcasm. Please forgive.

Lnj - actually I need to apologize to you. My statement was meant to reference Lone Wolf's statement about if A group of individual thru-hikers arrive at a shelter at the same time, they should consider themselves a group and not occupy a shelter. Thought that proclamation was a little harsh. My statement was not intended for you. I apologize for my sloppiness


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[Wildfang]

It's unfortunate that this happened, but experiences like this happen to everyone. Until someone makes official rules and enforces them, nothing is going to change. Whether we agree or disagree with the rule or not.

[Traveler]

It's unfortunate that this happened, but experiences like this happen to everyone. Until someone makes official rules and enforces them, nothing is going to change. Whether we agree or disagree with the rule or not.

Given the myriad possibilities and potentials of trail life, it is difficult to have a set of rules that covers all possible scenarios. It starts to get real murky with who is supposed to enforce these rules. This is why a social contract, or trail etiquette, is commonly used to filter out most of the issues that come up. There are usually not many problems that cannot be resolved with agreeable people, so the social contract system works pretty well overall. The reality is, if staying the night one should be prepared to be outside the shelter.

If properly equipped it makes little difference who should be in what shelter (though etiquette along with posted rules in most parklands will state groups over a certain size should use group areas). These are the things worked out between people on the trail, when faced with knuckleheads, drunks, or those not well versed in what they are doing, moving on makes a lot of sense versus hashing it out. Knuckleheads and drunks are dangerous by definition, uninitiated are only dangerous inadvertently, all of them are successfully mitigated with a passive approach.

[scottpash]

It all depends on the Group and the people

I encountered two groups while on the AT on a section hike from Harper's NOBO

1 Group of Scouts at Antietam Shelter who had Great Leadership and Boys that were interested in hiking and talking about it (I was also a Scout Leader for many years , many years ago) They respected other people and asked if I needed room in the shelter, I hammock Camp so I just found a place near the shelter area for some solitude, after the boys all wanted to look at my setup since none have camped in a hammock.

I met another Group at Alec Kennedy (Church Group) when I arrived at the shelter garbage and food was everywhere and the group was very loud and did not appear to care about anything or anyone just a total lack of respect for anyone or anything so I just left and put on some more miles
to get to the.campground in Boiling Springs (Not the best place to stay, but it worked out)

A visit from a Bear or other critters was likely with all the food scattered about

So here is my 2 cents on Groups
It all depends on the Group and the leadership

[wornoutboots]

Go read ATC website.
Groups are not supposed to use shelters.
Just another reason why they should be removed.
That includes groups of section hikers and thru hikers too, they make no exception for them.

But groups of section & thru's normally aren't "together" or at least didn't start together?
Why doesn't the ATC laminate these rules & post them in the shelters? I don't remember seeing this anywhere?

[wornoutboots]

i consider 30 wannabe thru-hikers starting on the same day, a group. they should stay out of shelters

Now something like this should definitely be posted at the Springer Mtn Shelter along with some common sense rules & named "You're Not Entitled to Anything" & maybe even posted in hostels & shelters every 100-200 miles to remind them

[Miel]

At the Truro, Mass. youth hostel a few years back (2008 or 09 or 10) there was a bicycle group that came in. They go there every year, but that time my visit coincided with theirs. VERY noisy; did not pay attention to quiet time in the dorms. Did a lousy job of cleaning up after themselves in the kitchen. Took veeeeeeeeeeeerry long showers at a green hostel where water conservation was encouraged.

These were not children but folks well into middle age.

So, two thoughts:

Don't blame kids for being kids - as we see from smartphone use, adults can be as obnoxious (and sometimes threatening life and limb) as teens.

I like that children are getting to see the trail. Maybe one day some of them will have such a respect for the planet, because of this trip, that they will enter professions that will help mitigate climate change. Although I have never done a thru-hike, I've done partial hikes with my child, and I like to think her respect for Earth, and her decision to make in environmental studies, is partially because of this.

[Gambit McCrae]

off on another shelter rant...

Coin side 1: Every hiker should be prepared to not use the shelters and to know that spring is thru hiker season so watch out for the stampede(over exaggerated)

Coin side 2: Thru hikers are to stay out of shelters south of the Smokies

Coin side 3...Tear down the wood constructed shelters south of the Smokies and put caretakers at the major camp sites in Georgia to babysit the trail during the spring time.

I use the Smokies as a cutoff as to when a large percentage either quit, or grow up.

[full conditions]

During my '76 thru, I got into the Outerbridge shelter one afternoon and had the place to myself for about and hour and a half. Later in the afternoon a group of girl scouts arrived with two adult leaders. They were surprised and obviously disappointed to see me there (I had already claimed a bunk spot off to one side). They consulted with each other for a few minutes and then came into the shelter to ask me if I would be willing to leave - since they had been counting on having the place to themselves. I pointed out that a.) there was plenty of room for all of us (its a pretty room shelter) and b.) the next decent site north was beyond what I was willing to undertake. They thought about this for a few minutes and gathered up the girls and hiked back down to the highway. Never saw them again. They were a little huffy about my refusal but didnt make a scene over it. But it occurred to me that they truly did not know what to expect and hadnt read any of the ATC's literature about shelter use before hand - could of saved them some trouble.

[4eyes]

shelters are first come, first served. NOBODY gets preferential treatment. especially thru-hikers

This was my experience. Sometimes it stinks to show up in nasty weather hoping for shelter spot, only to arrive and see that 15 other people had the same idea. If you plan on using shelters exclusively, the trick is to post up in one early. When I was out, usually the shelters in the South would start to fill up around 5pm. There was only one instance where I remember thatI had a shelter all to myself, and very few where there was less than 5 sleeping in. A good shelter is essential, imo.

[4eyes]

This was my experience. Sometimes it stinks to show up in nasty weather hoping for shelter spot, only to arrive and see that 15 other people had the same idea. If you plan on using shelters exclusively, the trick is to post up in one early. When I was out, usually the shelters in the South would start to fill up around 5pm. There was only one instance where I remember thatI had a shelter all to myself, and very few where there was less than 5 sleeping in. A good shelter is essential, imo.

A good shelter, as in a tent, or tarp, that you carry with you.

[George]

the katz thing has been mentioned here - (did they skip this in the ATC sanitized movie version) - but in this case it would tend to inconvenience the kids, not the leaders who set up the issue - in this case the church van may have been found with the air out of the tires - if there is no consequences there is no reason for repetition not to occur