Back in the cuben world....

[10-K]

I'm really ready to go hiking.... 2 weeks from now I'll be on the way for another 3 months on the trail. No more cyberhiking...

[Venchka]

Actually, I just ordered a beak so I'm going to file you and Wayne under "Bad influence"....

The other good thing about all this cuben stuff is you can sell it pretty quick as long as it's in good condition.

I'm really ready to go hiking.... 2 weeks from now I'll be on the way for another 3 months on the trail. No more cyberhiking...

Don't blame me. I just asked a question.

You're killing me. In 2 weeks I'll still be in Houston. Working. Baking in the heat and humidity.
Have a great hike!

Wayne

[Coffee]

I'm having serious trail withdrawal myself

I'm 6'1" so not extremely tall but I've always been envious of the tarp users since there seems to be so much more room than in my tarp-like Hexamid Twin tent. I'm probably going to switch to the zPacks Altaplex, supposedly better for tall hikers, but reluctantly since I like the tarp-like properties of the Hexamid and I really like the removable ground sheet. So I'll be interested in knowing how this setup works out. A tarp and bivy w/cuben groundsheet combination has always seemed to me to be the most versatile shelter system perhaps only inferior to something like the Hexamid at times of heavy bug activity.

[Malto]

I'm having serious trail withdrawal myself

I'm 6'1" so not extremely tall but I've always been envious of the tarp users since there seems to be so much more room than in my tarp-like Hexamid Twin tent. I'm probably going to switch to the zPacks Altaplex, supposedly better for tall hikers, but reluctantly since I like the tarp-like properties of the Hexamid and I really like the removable ground sheet. So I'll be interested in knowing how this setup works out. A tarp and bivy w/cuben groundsheet combination has always seemed to me to be the most versatile shelter system perhaps only inferior to something like the Hexamid at times of heavy bug activity.

I actually believe a three piece system, mid style tarp, net inner and bivy is the most versatile. Mid and net in summer and bivy and mid in the winter. I did a cat tarp until I made my mid, I would never go back. (the mids can withstand some serious weather and are easier to setup.). In the west I would do mid/bivy year round as bugs are much less of an issue.

[Malto]

I'm having serious trail withdrawal myself

I'm 6'1" so not extremely tall but I've always been envious of the tarp users since there seems to be so much more room than in my tarp-like Hexamid Twin tent. I'm probably going to switch to the zPacks Altaplex, supposedly better for tall hikers, but reluctantly since I like the tarp-like properties of the Hexamid and I really like the removable ground sheet. So I'll be interested in knowing how this setup works out. A tarp and bivy w/cuben groundsheet combination has always seemed to me to be the most versatile shelter system perhaps only inferior to something like the Hexamid at times of heavy bug activity.

One more thing. A ground sheet is not need with a bivy, it is the ground sheet. Yes you may get little pin holes but a dap of silicone will fix that. my bivy has many thousands of miles of groundsheetless use and it's still going strong.

[Dogwood]

When marketing a tarp to be erected A Frame going from a 1p to a 2 p I like to see a bit extra added to the length than HMG staying at a somewhat shortish 102" ridgeline for both. If you have the beaks no issue I can note.

Going from a OWare Cat 1.5 with a 9 ft ridgeline(118") to the Echo 1 or 2 with a 102" ridgeline, with a loss of 16" in ridgeline length, front pointing aside, can be a coverage game changer in that some taller folks may likely need the beaks with the HMG ECHO 1 or 2 in some inclement weather scenarios for protected storage and coverage. Even when pairing with a MLD Superlight or TG Ptarmigan bivy with the beakless Echo 1 I didn't get the coverage I desired in variable wind driven rain and snow. I needed the beaks. LOL. Now, I don't always need the bivy if I have the beaks. Of course, you elflike folks don't have the giraffe issues I do.

I like HMG's CF usage in their gear. ie; it's built to last providing good reliability in some more severe conditions but still shaves wt. offering decent bang for the CF buck. HMG deserves greater consideration when shopping for CF gear in my opinion!

I like your reasoning Malto. Yeah, I too am starting to get conflicted on taking a mid or cat cut. Lot of nights under a cat cut though making it real hard to walk away from. I'll keep my options open for now as I still like setting up in lean to style with one side totally open to the environment folding it over to the A frame config if during the night real inclement weather arrives. Malto, do you pitch to the ground on the sides most of the time with the mid?

Coffee, did you see what John Abela came up with in his 1P SUL fully enclosed shelter spreadsheet? He briefly reviews many different set ups. He's a SULer so, ahem, that's the direction he goes favoring the lightest out there. As always, asking how beta applies to you and your hiking is key!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0

http://hikelighter.com/2011/12/29/sulxul-enclosed-shelter-comparisons/

[Coffee]

One interesting shelter would be the zPacks Altaplex done "hexamid" style - meaning with a net floor and a removable cuben ground sheet. They already make a Altaplex tarp for $365 (vs $565 for the full tent). I suspect that if they were willing to do one with a removable groundsheet and net floor the shelter would end up weighing a couple ounces more, but the geometry of the tarp seems to fit a taller hiker a little better. Or perhaps the Altaplex tarp coupled with a cuben groundcloth would be fine in all but the buggiest of conditions. I've sent zPacks an email to see if they are willing to make any of their "plex" shelters with removable groundsheets. Having it removable really makes the shelter more versatile for cowboy camping and use in shelters. I did see a few "plex" shelters on the PCT this year. I think almost everyone who carried one also had a sheet of Tyvek as a supplemental ground sheet for cowboy camping which is just extra weight.

[10-K]

One more thing. A ground sheet is not need with a bivy, it is the ground sheet. Yes you may get little pin holes but a dap of silicone will fix that. my bivy has many thousands of miles of groundsheetless use and it's still going strong.

I'm guessing you use a foam type sleeping pad. My old bones really appreciate my Neoair. The groundsheet provides an extra layer of protection between the ground and the (relatively) fragile air mattress. It's one thing to have pin hole in your bivy. It's entirely another matter to have one in your sleeping pad.

[10-K]

BTW, Dogwood - only a front beak is available for the Echo II.....

[rocketsocks]

Big Problem. You can't read a map through cuben.
Big Problem #2. According to 10-K, cuben develops leaks.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

That's tomorrows problem.

[Dogwood]

BTW, Dogwood - only a front beak is available for the Echo II.....

HMG makes beaks for the Echo I too.

BTW, I need to correct myself as the above spec I quoted for the Oware CatTarp 1.5 ridge line length is not 118" , it is 108" I still stand by all my opinions though. I needed the Echo I beaks based on my height and desired dry storage for the coverage in variable driving rain and snow. Dan St Pierre at HMG is a good guy to work with.

[Malto]

I'm guessing you use a foam type sleeping pad. My old bones really appreciate my Neoair. The groundsheet provides an extra layer of protection between the ground and the (relatively) fragile air mattress. It's one thing to have pin hole in your bivy. It's entirely another matter to have one in your sleeping pad.

Nope, neoair xlite or xtherm depending on season.

[10-K]

The beak and groundsheet arrived today.

The beak will be a nice addition in inclement weather - it adds a nice sized vestibule and forms a good seal around the front of the tarp.

The zpacks solo-plus groundsheet fits the Echo II tarp like a glove. There's about 12" of ground exposed between the tarp and the groundsheet around the perimeter of the tarp so I can pitch the tarp low to the ground in a windy downpour or leave it up during regular rain and not have to worry about splash.

I need to put it on my scale but I'm guessing about 27 oz for the entire setup (tarp/bivy/beak/groundsheet). Several oz heavier than a zpacks shelter but considering it's a palatial shelter for 1 person and all the various options the modular system allows I'm going to roll with it.

I could drop the beak and groundsheet and save ~11 oz but I think not at this point. I'm going to start with the complete setup and adjust after I start hiking.