Thoughts on Bear Spray

[Tally_Hiker]

My son and I are heading to GSMNP next week for our first overnight hiking trip in the area. With so much bear activity during this time, I was wondering what some of your thoughts are on the need for bear spray. Should I take it along?

[Odd Man Out]

I would not. There have been about one or two deaths due to black bear attacks in TN and NC in the last 115 years. On the other hand hundreds die each year in car accidents. You will be much safer once you get out of you car.

[MuddyWaters]

Overwhelming odds, are that you dont need it to protect yourself from black bears.

But then again, its not totally useless.

It has been successfully used to retrieve food and packs taken by aggressive thieving bears. The effect is only momentary, and you can expect any such aggressive bear to come back, and not give up easily. Have plan B for when the spray runs out.

[Jake2c]

I figure you should take what helps you enjoy your hike/camping. If it gives you peace of mind then it was worth it to me. Chances are you won't need it, on the other hand if you are that one in a thousand, it may be worth it's weight in gold.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Realistically You won't need it for bears. But if having it will help you relax and sleep better at night then by all means bring it along.

[atj_Hiker]

I always take bear mace with me for good reason. My wife said if I don't bring her boys back home alive, I'm dead. I'm more afraid of her than I am the bears! I always had 2 containers of mace in case one failed to work. Before the hike, we studied how to read bears by their body language. I'm not a gambler even if your odds are you'll never see a bear let alone be killed by one. Cool thing about the trip was we had many bears visit us at TriCorner after dark. The first one woke my oldest boy up by smelling his feet. We knew they weren't aggressive but it was comforting to know we had mace.
If you're not afraid of your wife, do what you want:-)

[duckypaddler]

I'm a little late to the game but thought I would throw in my 2 cents. I have been an active hiker/fisherman for the past 25 years in the Smokies. While I would have thought it completely silly as others have already stated risk level, I have changed my tune a bit in the past 3-4 years as I'm often hiking with my twin boys. While I don't carry "Bear Spray", I do carry a small container of mace. Only gives me 10 feet as opposed to 30 feet of protection, but also just weighs a few ounces. While it is much more likely I will run into a crazy human than a bear, one never knows. I was talking with Dr. Dave Unger (The Kentucky Bear expert) who teaches Biology at Maryville College who said bears are like humans in the way that we both have Psychopaths and you just never know who you might run into. He recommends using Bear Spray, but I'm unwilling to carry the weight.

[Trance]

Extra weight.... I carried it my first time on the trail and never used it. Ended up giving it to another hiker.

For crazy humans:
Carry a knife, on your belt, in a sheath. Intimidation is 90% of any fight. Just ask any police officer.

For crazy bears:
Never met any that people didnt provoke.

[lemon b]

Agree. Just unnecessary weight.

[atj_Hiker]

I will always carry mace but I would be 99% sure it's safe without if the bear food source was good. If they don't have their natural food source due to drought, they will get more aggressive. Fact is that people have been killed in the Smokey's by bears. I doubt anyone can say with 100% confidence that they were all provoked. I don't consider it to be much weight and it's worth the peace of mind to me.

[HooKooDooKu]

Fact is that people have been killed in the Smokey's by bears.

Since the establishment of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, there has only been ONE death known and documented to have been caused by a bear.

That one death was about 20 years ago, and the circumstances were about as 'mysterious' as the recent attack on the teenager (i.e. unprovided, with no prior warning because of a known "problem" bear, when natural food and water sources were NOT in short supply).

By contrast, numerous people have been killed from traffic accidents, falls, and 'exposure'.

So you will accomplish more to protect yourself by wearing a seat belt and carrying a jacket than you will carrying any sort of mace.


Sarcasm perhaps said it best... (paraphrasing) that it's not needed except by irrational people who need it for their comfort (not their protection).


I even once brought up the idea that perhaps I need to carry bear spray because I frequently hike with pre-teen children and they might need it for their own protection should anything happen to me while we're all in the back country. The general consensus was that bear spray was more likely to cause problems than solve them.


Something else to keep in mind... bears in GSMNP, while stronger and faster, are about the same size as they typical adult. Unlike the case with Grizzlies, the typical adult should be able to fight off a bear... should it come to blows as it did with the teenager and the father literally jumping on the bear to stop the attack.


I've explained what happened with the recent attack on the teenager with my pre-teen boys, and it hasn't deterred their enthusiasm to hike in GSMNP with me one bit.

[ChuckT]

When I first started solo hiking on the AT a "friend" insisted (straight faced) that I needed to carry a Shark Stick for protection from bears.
I am very sure he was disappointed when I didn't bite.

[MuddyWaters]

Something else to keep in mind... bears in GSMNP, while stronger and faster, are about the same size as they typical adult. Unlike the case with Grizzlies, the typical adult should be able to fight off a bear... should it come to blows as it did with the teenager and the father literally jumping on the bear to stop the attack.

While you may be able to deter a bear, because it really generally doesnt want anything to do with you, even a 100 lb bear could easily kill you if it wanted. They are many , many times stronger than a human. Small bears. In other areas have dragged campers from tents.( kicking and screaming of course).

[HooKooDooKu]

You don't have to be stronger than the bear. You just have to have enough fight in you that the bear decides you are not worth it.

This is one of the reasons the National Park service tells people not to play dead but fight back against a black bear attack.

Now I'm not sure what the latest instruction are in grizzly country, but at least the old wisdom with a grizzly was to play dead because the size difference is overwhelming. Unless you get in a punch on the nose or an eye socket, a grizzly will hardly notice your hitting it.

[Pedaling Fool]

I would advise against it. If you really need bear spray, it's just something you really have to always keep track of and always know where it is and guard against accidental discharges...

But the fact is, it's not needed, so why put yourself thru the trouble of keeping track of it. BTW, I bet most people that carry it don't have it at the ready most of the time.

If a bear attacks just attack back with a weapon lying around, i.e. huge stick, rocks...

As has been said before, if you make yourself difficult prey, they will back off. And who knows, maybe you'll get a lucky hit... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/us/24bear.html?_r=0

P.S. The reason you fight a black bear is because in most cases black bear attacks are predatory in nature, whereas most grizzly attacks are to either protect their young (female black bears do not protect their young from humans) or to protect their food source. As strange as that may sound, black bears are more out to eat you, whereas grizzlies just trying to neutralize a threat. However, it is VERY rare this happens, but it does on occasion...

If you are ever attacked by a polar bear, fight back, because they intend on eating you. You'll probably lose, but you might as well try...

[Pedaling Fool]

BTW, just so you don't think I'm talking out of my ass...I do that a lot

But not when it comes to bears http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/science/11bears.html

Black bear attacks, attack back and channel your primal instincts.


But again, this is very, very rare occurrence; I'm not paranoid. It's just the facts.

[HooKooDooKu]

...female black bears do not protect their young from humans...

Most of my life, I've always hear you never want to come between a mother bear and her cubs, and this statement would be repeated for areas (such as GSMNP and the AT) where only black bears are present.

But recent discussions here on WB (that predate the recent attack on a teen in GSMNP) set that record strait. The details behind WHY female black bears do not protect their young from humans is because cubs will climb a tree to avoid danger. Mom knows this, and she'll either climb a tree of her own, run and hide, or maybe bluff charge you to scare you off. But she knows the cubs are safe up a tree and there is no reason to confront the danger (i.e. YOU).

[Pedaling Fool]

Most of my life, I've always hear you never want to come between a mother bear and her cubs, and this statement would be repeated for areas (such as GSMNP and the AT) where only black bears are present.

But recent discussions here on WB (that predate the recent attack on a teen in GSMNP) set that record strait. The details behind WHY female black bears do not protect their young from humans is because cubs will climb a tree to avoid danger. Mom knows this, and she'll either climb a tree of her own, run and hide, or maybe bluff charge you to scare you off. But she knows the cubs are safe up a tree and there is no reason to confront the danger (i.e. YOU).

Yes, I've heard that a lot also (never get between mama and the cubs), and I still hear it, just goes to show that we sometimes need to question "common knowledge". I've gotten between momma and the cubs (not on purpose) and they do exactly what I've read and what you wrote above.

However, I was thinking about this earlier, but didn't write it into my last post. It's common knowledge to not move when a black bear charges because it's a bluff charge. Yet, I wonder if that only pertains to females worried about their cubs. I'd imagine if you were being stalked by a huge male, which is indicative of predatory intentions, if you see that bear charge you, then it'd probably be a mistake to just stand there. I'm not saying you should run, that would be a bigger mistake, but you should do something defensive.

So, if I ever find myself in that position, I've decided that I'm not just going to stand there if a large male charges...


Just food for thought....

[Harrison Bergeron]

Would bears be something to worry about on the AT if every time one of them bothered a human they got a blast of bear mace in the face for their trouble?

They're not stupid, you know. Hiking North, you probably won't see bear one in the month it takes to hike from Springer to Fontana. But once you cross Fontana Lake and spend a week in the Great Smokey Mountain National Park you will. There's a reason for that. North Carolina and Georgia have a bear season. The GSMNP does not.

If bear mace weighed 3oz instead of a pound, would it be worth the weight to avoid the day when the Forestry Service forces you to drag around a 3 pound bear canister?

Then consider this: The only difference between a 3oz can of CounterAssault intended for humans and the 13oz version they sell for (brown) bears is that the heavier version can spray 30 feet. Now ask yourself -- if you encountered a black bear 30 feet away on the trail, would it occur to you to try and spray him from that distance? Even if he decided to charge you from such a great distance, wouldn't you save your ammo until the bear was actually close enough to hit him in the face?

The 3oz version is good to 15 feet and five blasts -- plenty good enough for black bears. If everyone carried it, we wouldn't have to talk about bears anymore. Personally, I consider it a civic duty.

[MuddyWaters]

Would bears be something to worry about on the AT if every time one of them bothered a human they got a blast of bear mace in the face for their trouble?

They're not stupid, you know. Hiking North, you probably won't see bear one in the month it takes to hike from Springer to Fontana. But once you cross Fontana Lake and spend a week in the Great Smokey Mountain National Park you will. There's a reason for that. North Carolina and Georgia have a bear season. The GSMNP does not.

If bear mace weighed 3oz instead of a pound, would it be worth the weight to avoid the day when the Forestry Service forces you to drag around a 3 pound bear canister?

Then consider this: The only difference between a 3oz can of CounterAssault intended for humans and the 13oz version they sell for (brown) bears is that the heavier version can spray 30 feet. Now ask yourself -- if you encountered a black bear 30 feet away on the trail, would it occur to you to try and spray him from that distance? Even if he decided to charge you from such a great distance, wouldn't you save your ammo until the bear was actually close enough to hit him in the face?

The 3oz version is good to 15 feet and five blasts -- plenty good enough for black bears. If everyone carried it, we wouldn't have to talk about bears anymore. Personally, I consider it a civic duty.

if everyone carried it, only 2 people per year out of thousands would have the chance, and it wouldnt even be ready to use so it wouldnt be.

Heres a naughty secret, bear spray doesnt work all that well. It deters a bear momentarily. For a minute or two, because it usually isnt really good exposure due to distance. They WILL come back, and keep coming if they are after food. You will run out of spray. Whats plan B? There is no replacement for good habits.

A couple of years ago in the GSMNP, a bear and yearling took a pack while hikers were setting up tents. There was about a dozen people present. One of them had bear spray, they managed to use the spray to retrieve the pack from the bears. There are some photos on here of some chewed items I recall.

The bears kept coming back. They hung around the shelter all night, even after being sprayed repeatedly.

The next day the shelter was closed for several months.