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  1. #1

    Default What's your hiking Mojo?

    In an effort to quantify a hike as a single number, we've developed 'Hiker Mojo'.

    This is not a comparison. A higher number is not 'better' than a lower number. It's just a way to determine an over-all style. Your Mojo encompasses everything, your fitness level, your mental attitude, how you hike in general. Maybe, you're a 'stop and smell the roses' type of hiker. Or maybe you're a 'hike till you collapse' kind of hiker. It's all good!

    Here's an interesting observation. To go from a 75-day hike to a 60-day hike requires 5 more Mojo points. To go from a 150-day hike to a 100-day hike also requires 5 more Mojo points. Note, we're talking about 15 days vs. 50 days!!! Either way, that's some serious extra effort.



  2. #2
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    This is sometimes my post-hiking Mojo....

    Paul "Mags" Magnanti
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    The true harvest of my life is intangible...a little stardust caught,a portion of the rainbow I have clutched -Thoreau

  3. #3

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    Really? Does your definition of MOJO encompass "everything!" Based on your x and y axis units you're determining a MOJO rating based on speed. That's a built in bias. Sorry, but that's one of the things I was taught to detect based on a Statistical Mathematics degree.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Really? Does your definition of MOJO encompass "everything!" Based on your x and y axis units you're determining a MOJO rating based on speed. That's a built in bias. Sorry, but that's one of the things I was taught to detect based on a Statistical Mathematics degree.
    "Everything" about a hiker determines how long their hike takes, aka, speed. I could never have a Mojo of '26'.

    How about you?

    -postholer

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    Such a scale already exists, it's called 'how long did it take you?'.

    The only reason I could see why someone would want this is if they are trying to equate LD trails to try to find a equivalent between the AT and PTC for example. Not sure whay one would desire that, and I question it's a measure of anything else then the time on trail or if such a equating could be valid, but there you go.
    Last edited by Starchild; 07-01-2015 at 08:53.

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    Registered User Tuckahoe's Avatar
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    ...derp...
    igne et ferrum est potentas
    "In the beginning, all America was Virginia." -​William Byrd

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    My mojo, by your definition, is surely in the single digits! I don't much care about speed until and unless it affects my ability to go somewhere because of having enough vacation time to get there, or being able to carry enough food.

    I've had only a handful of roadless stretches that long in all the hiking I've done. Maybe if I were to do the HMW without getting a resupply on a logging road, it would matter.

    Maybe my trail name should be Tortoise.
    I always know where I am. I'm right here.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Kevin View Post
    My mojo, by your definition, is surely in the single digits! I don't much care about speed until and unless it affects my ability to go somewhere because of having enough vacation time to get there, or being able to carry enough food.

    I've had only a handful of roadless stretches that long in all the hiking I've done. Maybe if I were to do the HMW without getting a resupply on a logging road, it would matter.

    Maybe my trail name should be Tortoise.
    Yeah, I'm like a 3 1/2 on a goot day.

  9. #9
    PCT, Sheltowee, Pinhoti, LT , BMT, AT, SHT, CDT, TRT 10-K's Avatar
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    Just for clarification, the index is based on time, not speed. 2 hikers could have the same "mojo" index number but have a vastly different number for the amount of time they spent walking.

    For instance, a hiker who hikes 3 mph for 10 hours would cover the same distance as someone who hiked 2 mph for 15 hours but they'd have the same 'mojo' number.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by postholer.com View Post
    "Everything" about a hiker determines how long their hike takes, aka, speed. I could never have a Mojo of '26'.

    How about you?

    -postholer
    To me Mojo is defined by attitude and the willingness to live outdoors with simple gear and everything on your back---or living permanently outdoors in a primitive yurt or wall tent etc and walking pretty much everywhere. Mojo is a mindset as in: If You Are Indoors You Are A Failure, If You Are Outdoors You Are A Success etc.

    Equating speed hiking and finishing a long trail in a minimal amount of days is NOT Mojo, it's just a narrowly defined sport irrelevant to most every other normal backpacker.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10-K View Post
    Just for clarification, the index is based on time, not speed.
    In this case, the old Cherokee Indians and other Indians would've had the highest mojo since they lived outside permanently for generations.

    In fact, in my opinion those individuals who complete a forced march like the PCT in a short period of time have the lowest mojo of all. Fastest Known Times are irrelevant to me, I'm most interested in those who pull off the Slowest Known Times for whatever trail they are hiking.

    Pulling a 21 mile trail and taking 7 days to do it? Perfect. Highest mojo rating.

  11. #11
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    What are the variables other than time went into the calculation presented in the graph?

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    Seems like an interesting scale.

    There are a couple of objections people raise. First that this is just a measure of the time it took to hike. While that is kind of true, one has to acknowledge that this puts it on a different scale. For example f(x) = log(x) only takes "x" as input, but it scales things differently and can be useful for gaining other insight. log(x) definitely is not the same thing as "x".

    In this case, it seems to be a rational function,... a constant multiplier of f(x) = 1/x.

    I believe everyone would agree that going from a 180 day hike to a 170 day hike over the same distance doesn't require much extra personal drive. But going from a 45 day hike to a 35 day hike takes a great deal of extra drive. This graph seemingly illustrates the difference as the hike times change, without distinguishing between differences such as 20 miles in 15 hours versus 20 miles in 10 hours for a single day or differences between 100 miles in 6 days with one zero day and 100 miles in 7 days with no zero days.

    The second objection is to the use of the word "mojo" and this seems to be based on the observation that the word "mojo" already has meaning that arguable does not match what is being measured here. For that, I'd suggest not getting caught up in the meaning of words. The author could easily make up a brand new word to use instead of "mojo". But I would argue that this already is at least a cousin to the concept of "mojo".

  13. #13

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    The very first thing I said was, "This is not a comparison". Hence, the word 'Mojo' deflecting from that sort of label.

    As 10-K pointed out, 2 people may have the same Mojo but arrive at it in very different ways. It depends on who you are and how you approach hiking. How you hike as an individual, regardless, is perfect.

    What relevance does this have? I went into more detail on the postholer.com site and should have here. This is the basis of an up and coming planning tool, that takes a far better approach. I needed some basic info.

    What type of mathematical equation is this? It isn't, per se. I didn't create an equation and then graph it. This is observed data extracted from hundreds of journals and simply graphed. While the curve is quite uniform, there are tiny variances between each point.

    -postholer

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by postholer.com View Post
    The very first thing I said was, "This is not a comparison". Hence, the word 'Mojo' deflecting from that sort of label.

    ........... I went into more detail on the postholer.com site and should have here. This is the basis of an up and coming planning tool, that takes a far better approach. I needed some basic info.
    What type of mathematical equation is this? It isn't, per se. I didn't create an equation and then graph it. This is observed data extracted from hundreds of journals and simply graphed. While the curve is quite uniform, there are tiny variances between each point.

    -postholer
    Ok then. I realize this is just for fun and has no real value. But, I went over to your site and read what I could find there. Since you seem to want feedback on this I think you need to provide some substance to what you are saying you did. Your graph has no meaningful vertical axis as far as I can tell. From all of these hundreds of journals exactly what data did you glean and how did you decide to graph it if you did not use an equation. If you are using all that data and graphing it there has to be a method you are following or what you have is .... To be meaningful the shape of the curve has to be definable and that only seems possible from using some sort of rational. If for some reason you do not want to share your method please say so as that will explain a lot.

    I don't mean to make you feel like you are being picked upon, but I fall into the camp of those with a scientific education and I am struggling a bit with the above.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyoming View Post
    Your graph has no meaningful vertical axis as far as I can tell.
    That's correct. It's just an arbitrary scale.

    From all of these hundreds of journals exactly what data did you glean and how did you decide to graph it if you did not use an equation. If you are using all that data and graphing it there has to be a method you are following or what you have is ....
    Each point is an aggregation of observed hikes, where each hiker was on a given date relative to a physical location, ie, trail mile. So you have miles/day and that differs significantly from the beginning of the trail and the end of the trail, higher altitudes/lower altitudes, it's not a constant one size fits all. Where I didn't have data, I used LaGrange interpolation to fit the curve.

    If you notice, the graph is very similar to an acceleration curve, a = v^2/r, but the result was arrived at in a very different way.

    -postholer

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by postholer.com View Post
    That's correct. It's just an arbitrary scale.
    I need to clarify that. The y axis has been scaled by an arbitrary value and rounded to integer, but it's value increases as hiking days shorten. Arriving at the y value for a given number of days is the whole point of this exercise.

    -postholer

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    You should have provided how you arrived at your data set, it's the only way we can know what you are trying to convey and give appropriate feedback. All it appeared at first was a inverse relationship between days and mojo score. The data does suggest that your methodology may boil down to more or less that, but until you provide how you came up with that is not really helpful for much.

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    My "Mojo" is something entirely different from whatever you are trying to quantify. My "Mojo" cannot be quantified, limited or defined by parameters; imagined or otherwise. Some know me only by my "Mojo". Those who know me well know my "Mojo" is both subtle and powerful.


    "Mojo" as I know it has no place on a two co-ordinate graph.

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    Quote Originally Posted by postholer.com View Post
    That's correct. It's just an arbitrary scale.



    Each point is an aggregation of observed hikes, where each hiker was on a given date relative to a physical location, ie, trail mile. So you have miles/day and that differs significantly from the beginning of the trail and the end of the trail, higher altitudes/lower altitudes, it's not a constant one size fits all. Where I didn't have data, I used LaGrange interpolation to fit the curve.

    If you notice, the graph is very similar to an acceleration curve, a = v^2/r, but the result was arrived at in a very different way.

    -postholer
    I looked at by average between SoCal and Wa and had a .7 mpd higher full day average in SoCal than Wa. I'm guessing this was an anomaly vs. Most hikers.

    here's where I think this has value. Often you will hear people say that they hiked x miles per day and that hiking x+3 miles per day is just another hour. This chart provides a bit of perspective on the relative ease. Going from 30 to 33 mpd is much harder than just 110%.

  20. #20

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    Is this not like E=Mc2 and or the inverse.

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