Vermont section comparison

[BirdBrain]

How does the LT section of the AT in Vermont compare to the remaining 45 miles? I did the 45 miles as a 3 day shakedown this weekend. I am a bit discouraged by how my body reacted to those 45 miles. Trying to assess how the next leg will go.

[Deacon]

The LT runs concurrent with the AT for 105 miles in Vermont. Not sure how you derived 45 miles?

[BirdBrain]

Correct. I am seeking a comparison of the 105 miles to the 45 that does not run with the LT. The AT heads to Maine after 105 miles. The LT heads to Canada after 105 miles. The remaining section of the AT in Vermont that is not LT is about 45 miles long. It is between Rt 4 and Norwich.

[BirdBrain]

Obviously the LT section of the AT is longer than the section between Rt 4 and Norwich. Obviously Killington and Stratton is on the LT section. I am asking about the trail. The Maine JCT to Norwich had numerous PUDs not shown on elevation profiles. Also the mud seemed more abrasive than the mud of Maine. I had my 1st heel issues of hiking because of that mud. I am guessing it was the high clay content that caused this abrasiveness.

[jimmyjam]

BB I hiked the AT/LT thru Vermont early June and I did not find it bad. There were some muddy spots and some rooty areas and some areas needed pruning but overall I enjoyed Vermont. Some nice trail thru spruce forests and along some beautiful creeks.

[Slo-go'en]

If those 45 miles beat you up, your not going to like the rest of Vermont, especially the north end where it really gets rough. The Long Trail "Has No Mercy".

[BirdBrain]

If those 45 miles beat you up, your not going to like the rest of Vermont, especially the north end where it really gets rough. The Long Trail "Has No Mercy".

I don't know where this came from. Maine and NH were not easy. However, I had fun in those states. That 45 miles surprised me. I am scratching my head..... and still seeking a comparison. Does anyone have one? How does the 105 miles compare to the 45?

[imscotty]

BirdBrain, That first 45 miles north of the Maine Junction is just a warm up. The hardest part comes after that, Abraham, Camel Hump, Mansfield, all difficult but rewarding. My suggestion would be just to plan on fewer miles per day until you get your trail legs. I did 12 mile days through here (section hiker) and found that to be an enjoyable pace for me. I am not in the best of shape so any more than that and I would be hurting myself. YMMV

[BirdBrain]

BirdBrain, That first 45 miles north of the Maine Junction is just a warm up. The hardest part comes after that, Abraham, Camel Hump, Mansfield, all difficult but rewarding. My suggestion would be just to plan on fewer miles per day until you get your trail legs. I did 12 mile days through here (section hiker) and found that to be an enjoyable pace for me. I am not in the best of shape so any more than that and I would be hurting myself. YMMV

I am thankful for all input. I truly am. However, I am not asking about the northern section of the LT after it leaves the AT. How does the terrain of the 105 mile section of the AT/LT compare to the terrain of the 45 mile section of the AT from the Maine JCT to Norwich?

[BirdBrain]

I obviously am asking the question wrong. I will find a map tomorrow and highlight the 2 areas in question. In the mean time I will try one more time. The Appalachian Trail goes through Vermont. As you go NoBo, the 1st 105 miles just happens to also be the Long Trail. The last 45 miles is just AT. I did the last 45 miles of the AT in Vermont (not the LT) over the 3 day weekend. It tore my feet up. I have never had foot issues. I have plenty of experience hiking in mud. I also found the PUDS to be missing from the elevation profiles more than in Maine or NH. These surprises have prompted me to ask how the 45 mile section east of the Maine JCT compare to the 105 miles south of the Maine JCT. I don't know how else to express it short of posting a map.

[Jeff]

The 105 miles from N Adams,MA to to Maine Jct can be beautiful with some healthy climbs and descents,
but nothing serious. The NOBO descent down to Rt 9 (Bennington) can be steep but over with pretty quickly. Stratton Pond has beaver activity and the trail there is super wet with some confusing reroutes.

The real issue is mud and varies with every summer rainstorm. This year June had near record rainfall. The trail is muddy and the state is living up to its "Vermud" reputation. This week hikers are reporting that it's impossible to avoid the mud and most hikers slog right through it.

[bigcranky]

I think the other 105 miles of the AT in Vermont will be more difficult than the 45 miles that you did (the non-LT portion of the AT). Maybe much more, looking at the profiles. We did the LT last summer and even the first 105 miles kicked our little Southern butts.

[mark schofield]

I would remember the Norwich to the Main Junction section as being a bit gentler than the southern section from N. Adams to the Maine Junction, but not by much. There are some longer ups and downs and the descent to route 9, and going up Killington is a long walk. But the ups and downs are not as pronounced as in the far north to the Canadian border, which is a cragy rooty rocky up and down PITA. The southern section is a nice walk. The northern section is a challenging hike.

[12trysomething]

BB, although not able to talk about the 45AT miles you did I can tell you the easiest 20 miles of the LT I have done was from Route 4 to Brandon Gap terrain wise. I have since completed the 27ish miles from Brandon Gap to Lincoln Gap and found that to be more difficult than the previous 20, but not as challenging as sections of the first 104. In the first 104 there is 4.4 miles of gain and 4.5 miles of loss in elevation according to a GPS file I have.

One thing noteworthy, the trail deterioration from the end of May to mid/end of June was astounding. I spent 2 Sunday's walking in 2-6" of standing water and mud.

[BirdBrain]

Thank you all. My main issue is I am losing a big toenail. I lose toenails every year. No big deal. The mud of Vermont is different. I can't get it out of stuff. That mud is caked under my toenail. I will rip it off soon and the problem will be over. In Maine and NH, when I was loosing a nail, I could keep it clean. That mud would come out of my shoes, socks, and nails. This mud won't. This makes for sand paper in my socks. I have my 1st blister on my foot in my hiking life. I have bragged about my routine that keeps me blister free. Vermud has humbled me. All arrogant braggers deserve to be humbled. I deserve this.

[Slo-go'en]

I guess I miss read your question. The AT leg of the LT is mixed. There are some reasonably easy stretches and some difficult ones. It's really hard to compare the two sections as one is following the ridge line and the other is cutting cross country against the grain.

The dog leg from the LT to NH has a short bumpy section with a bunch of closely packed PUDs, while on the AT/LT leg the climbs are a bit more spread out, but bigger and in some cases pretty steep. The fundamental trail building philosophy of the LT is "don't go around it if you can climb over it" Hence my motto "The LT has no mercy". And like Jeff said (and you found out), the mud can be relentless.

When I did the E2E SOBO a couple of years ago, my pace at least doubled in the southern half as compared to the northern half, but it still wasn't very fast. You'd probably want to plan at least 10 days to go from N.Adams to Rt 4 although you might be able to do it in 7 or 8.

[colorado_rob]

I just hiked through VT along the LT/AT in mid-late May and it seemed to me the AT got easier after branching off of the LT *(going NOBO). The "crowds" sure died down! But I think I was in a "bubble" of LT hikers, mostly young college and high school students, mostly from VT itself. when I branched off on the AT the trail got easier and I hardly saw a soul for the rest of the way to NH.

[soilman]

BirdBrain, I am a retired soil scientist who has thru hiked the AT and the LT and also have done some trail work in VT so I am a little familiar with the mud. From my experience the areas that cause the most problems or those areas hikers complain the most about and are called "mud" are places that are shallow to rock, high in organic matter and hold lots of water. These soils typically are peats or muck which really are decayed plant material and have very little mineral material. eg. grit. In general the soils in VT are not that much different from ME on a broad scale. I have done trail work in ME. Most of the mineral soils have more sand or grit than clay, so I would not expect them to be that difficult to wash out. Clay is not gritty. It is the smallest soil particle and pure clay is quite smooth and slick.

[BirdBrain]

Thank you soilman. You are further confirming my fears. I am a wimp this year.

I have to edit this post:

I remain confused. Why is the mud I experienced on my Vermud walk so hard to wash off? In Maine I could stand in a stream and slosh it all out. My shoes are on the back lawn for the second night in a row after attempting to get the junk out. That mud is stubborn. Something is different. I am not debating. I am seeking answers from someone who knows much more than me on the subject.

[DavidNH]

the section of AT that is contiguous with the Long Trail is by far the easiest section of the Long Trail in VT. It gets way harder after Main Junction.