looking into a new pack

[Namtrag]

After a week of backpacking in my Osprey Talon 44, I am beginning to think maybe it's the wrong size torso for me. I measure right at 19", and the sizes available are S/M, which goes up to 19", and M/L which is 19" and up. I have the M/L. Try as I may, I cannot keep it up on my hips, and am thinking it is too long. Another thing that bothered me is the thin hip belt and straps, which dig into my back and side bacon pretty badly if I tighten them enough.

In any case, I am considering getting a new pack, and am looking at the GG Mariposa or the ULA Circuit. I do mostly 3 day, 2 night trips, and carry total weight, including food and a 1 liter water bottle, of anywhere from 25-28lbs. For our once a year 6 day, 5 night trips, I slip up into the 32 lbs vicinity.

I like the Talon in that I can strap our Stratospire 2 Tarptent to the bottom, but it looks like the GG or ULA do not have this option, but instead, may have a large pocket on one side in which to slide the tent? Is this true, and if so, do you just counterbalance the weight on one side by carrying water in the opposite pocket? Also the hip belts appear like they would work better than the Talon ones, especially for a slightly chubby guy like me.

Thanks for any advice you guys can give on the pros and cons of the Mariposa or the Circuit. If there is another pack, like a SMD Fusion 50 that might work, let me know!

[Odd Man Out]

Here is a blog post I read with a detailed analysis of the authors pack selection process and results. I have the same pack he settled on. The Kalais by Elemental Horizons. If you Google this pack you will find a number of other very good reviews.

https://40yearsofwalking.wordpress.c...-perfect-pack/

[Venchka]

I've read that article several times. It opened my eyes.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

[gbolt]

Your carry weight falls into the ULA upper Ohm range. Ohm and Circuit have close to the same capacity. The Circuit is more of an internal frame structure and carries more like Ospry and standard packs. The Ohm does have a little internal support and load lifters but is inbetween Ultra Light no frame and Light Internal Frame pack. I purchase and love the Ohm 2.0 and at do a great deal of 3/2 Hikes. The ULA's have great hip belts w/pockets. They adjust easily to get a snug fit on the hips. They are velcro and slightly adjustable. They are also interchangeable for small, med and large hips/waist. They also use the same belts whether it's an OHm or Circuit.

I have a box opening vid, on YouTube, of the Ohm if interested. Yet, I would suggest Shug's vids again. This spring he created one with his buddy that carries a circuit. So you can see both side by side.

I never investigated the Elemental Horizon packs but have purchased some fleece items made by them. Great quality as well.

Like purchasing a car. If the owner is happy than it was a great purchase! lol

[Odd Man Out]

I have not used a ULA pack but others have said my Kalais is quite comparable to the Circuit. Minimal frame, interchangeable velcro belt with multiple adjustments (belt pouches available for extra $), similar volume and carrying capacity.

[Venchka]

If they are that close, what sets the Kalais apart from the Circuit?

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

[Namtrag]

Thanks, guys. That blog entry was very informational, and the Kalais is definitely a contender.

a couple of things I have read, including gbolt's post, make me think I might be able to go smaller than the Circuit/Mariposa size. I use a Talon 44 now, and typically, I put my quilt, stove, and sleeping pad at the very bottom, then my clothes and everything bag, and on top, I put the food bag. I then strap our tent to the bottom. In the front mesh, I put the platypus system, bug spray and sunscreen, booze, and my pack cover. I don't even use the lid except for wallet and keys. For a 3 day trip, I have tons of room left in the inner compartment. Even on the six day trip. I still could have fit more if I had used the expansion sleeve.

This makes me think I could go with an Ohm or a Gorilla. Only downside I can see obviously is that I would exceed the weight limits on longer trips.

[bigcranky]

The Circuit would be a good choice. I carried our tent in the front pocket, in a long skinny homemade stuff sack so it carried upright. It still was able to hold a bunch of other personal gear. (Note that it was a very light tent, and I got a custom Circuit with the stretchy front pocket instead of the standard mesh.)

I would definitely get a Circuit instead of an Ohm for your total weights. I found the Ohm comfortable to about 24-25 pounds, and not at all comfortable above that.

If it were me, I would call ULA and talk about sizing and your fit issues. They are very helpful.

[daddytwosticks]

If you like Ospreys, take a look at some of their other models. I have an Exos 48 that is super comfortable. The Exos series does have the ability to attach items such as tents or pads to the bottom of the pack as you described.

[Mobius]

I can carry an SS2 in my Circuit along with everything else. I pack the tent vertically on one side, then all clothes/quilt in a compactor bag next to it. Food bag and cook kit sit on top. The only thing in the side pockets are water bottles. It's a pretty good sized pack. My carry weight for a long trip (5-6 day) is about like yours - 30 pounds. The pack can feel a bit empty on shorter trips but that's ok with me.

I've considered an Ohm but I don't technically _need_ another pack.

I hike with a lot of folks that love their GG Mariposa too.

[Namtrag]

The Circuit would be a good choice. I carried our tent in the front pocket, in a long skinny homemade stuff sack so it carried upright. It still was able to hold a bunch of other personal gear. (Note that it was a very light tent, and I got a custom Circuit with the stretchy front pocket instead of the standard mesh.)

I would definitely get a Circuit instead of an Ohm for your total weights. I found the Ohm comfortable to about 24-25 pounds, and not at all comfortable above that.

If it were me, I would call ULA and talk about sizing and your fit issues. They are very helpful.

I will definitely give them a call. I have heard nothing but good things about how they treat customers, and how they make sure you pick the right pack.

If you like Ospreys, take a look at some of their other models. I have an Exos 48 that is super comfortable. The Exos series does have the ability to attach items such as tents or pads to the bottom of the pack as you described.

I may do that, two sticks. I also have an Osprey Volt 60, and even though it's adjustable, I could never get it to sit right on me. Maybe the Exos would work. But like I said above, the Osprey lighter packs have some really thin hip and shoulder belts, and it's hard for me to take the hip belt cutting into my fat! lol

I can carry an SS2 in my Circuit along with everything else. I pack the tent vertically on one side, then all clothes/quilt in a compactor bag next to it. Food bag and cook kit sit on top. The only thing in the side pockets are water bottles. It's a pretty good sized pack. My carry weight for a long trip (5-6 day) is about like yours - 30 pounds. The pack can feel a bit empty on shorter trips but that's ok with me.

I've considered an Ohm but I don't technically _need_ another pack.

I hike with a lot of folks that love their GG Mariposa too.

I can see how the SS2 would fit that way, but I have always hated putting my tent in with everything else...for one, it can be wet, and more importantly, when we break camp, I can have everything else packed, and then just strap the tent on the bottom of my pack at the very end. I do like the Mariposa in that it has a big picket on one side where I could put our tent, and two pockets on the other side which I could put 2 1-liter bottles of water as a counterbalance. The only downside I have heard on the Mariposa is that it is hard to compress when you don't have it packed full. Anyone know about that?

[Just Bill]

Thanks, guys. That blog entry was very informational, and the Kalais is definitely a contender.

a couple of things I have read, including gbolt's post, make me think I might be able to go smaller than the Circuit/Mariposa size. I use a Talon 44 now, and typically, I put my quilt, stove, and sleeping pad at the very bottom, then my clothes and everything bag, and on top, I put the food bag. I then strap our tent to the bottom. In the front mesh, I put the platypus system, bug spray and sunscreen, booze, and my pack cover. I don't even use the lid except for wallet and keys. For a 3 day trip, I have tons of room left in the inner compartment. Even on the six day trip. I still could have fit more if I had used the expansion sleeve.

This makes me think I could go with an Ohm or a Gorilla. Only downside I can see obviously is that I would exceed the weight limits on longer trips.

A few thoughts-
General wisdom- around 25lbs at least one stay is needed, around 30 lbs two, and around 35lbs a frame of some sort does the job. You can add or subtract 5lbs to any of those numbers depending on your packing style, experience, and tolerance for discomfort.

It sounds like your packing style is tending to push more weight outside your center of gravity. This tends to torque a hipbelt a bit.

A shorter torso tends to compound that issue as well as there isn't much pack left to transfer the load.
With most of your weight high and out, as opposed to high and tight. Rather than hanging on your shoulders and pulling downward on your hips; the weight is tipping back, pulling away, and putting more pressure on the top edge of the hip belt. Which makes you want to tense it up, which makes it cut more into your sides.

Regardless of the pack, I think you should look at your packing style/sequence a bit more. Even without knowing your gear; your everything bag, food bag, and tent are all being packed far outside the ideal zone. While there are a few versions basically-

If you picture a hydration pack- think of the water bladder as your ideal zone. Then try to get the heaviest items closest to this spot. Centered on your spine, between hips and shoulders (or above shoulders) and close to your back.

An easier way to pack this way to get the hang of it- Lay your pack down instead of filling it like a garbage can. Put your pad, stove, sleep clothes etc into the bottom. You may need to switch food bags (tall/skinny vs short/fat) but that should probably next right against your back. If you have the spare room- you could slide your tent right in on top of or next to your food bag depending on fit.
Last- pack in your spare clothes and quilt around the sides and to fill out the pack. I'd also suggest breaking up your everything bag into a common use and "OH $hit!" bag. Most of the stuff you might want you don't need often. I keep the common stuff handy (TP, Soap, headlamp, compass, knife, lighter with blister tape). The rest is buried in the food bag.

Most hikers fall into a system of sorting out the next day's food the evening before. That way you don't need to get to the food bag during the day. If you have hip pouches or easy to access places that's where the daily food goes. If not- lid or on top of the gear in your main compartment is good.

Booze, bug dope, sunscreen etc. Likely weigh more than you think. Move those up to the empty lid. The lid is meant for things you want during the day- but it's location (high and tight) keeps the weight over your shoulders- rather than out back.

Keeping pack cover, wind shell, and perhaps the water treatment out in the mesh makes sense.

Think of a hammer. It doesn't seem heavy when you hold it by the head, but even an 8 ounce trim hammer feels pretty solid when you hold it by the 12" handle. Keeping your heavy stuff outside your center of gravity just puts a longer and longer handle on the hammer of weight beating you down all day. It makes your pack work harder than it needs to.

Play with repacking your load. It will help you more with any pack you choose.
Doing more with less will let you carry "less" pack too.
Doing less with more will force you to buy more pack than you need to stabilize a load.

Regardless of the weight you carry, how you carry it matters just as much.

Not to pick on you...
It's a common thing for folks to want to keep things "handy".
But handy things tend to be the heaviest things.

[Namtrag]

Great advice, Bill. I just was packing in the way that I could get things to fit best. I didn't think about where the weight was at all.

If I understand you, if the pack were standing up, you'd have me put clothes, stove, and pad at the bottom, but along the edge away from my back...then put the food bag down, standing vertically against my back. Am I picturing it right. I use a pretty big Opsak (I believe it is 12x20) because I carry all the food for my wife and me. It could stand vertically dead center against my back and I could squeeze other stuff down around it.

In any case, thanks again, and I will play around with it!

I still like having the tent outside the compartment so I can pack everything else and be ready to walk out of camp right after we take down our tent, but I don't see a lot of other people doing it this way. Seems pretty logical to me!

Anyway, maybe my M/L torso size will work better with the load packed right.

[Just Bill]

Great advice, Bill. I just was packing in the way that I could get things to fit best. I didn't think about where the weight was at all.

If I understand you, if the pack were standing up, you'd have me put clothes, stove, and pad at the bottom, but along the edge away from my back...then put the food bag down, standing vertically against my back. Am I picturing it right. I use a pretty big Opsak (I believe it is 12x20) because I carry all the food for my wife and me. It could stand vertically dead center against my back and I could squeeze other stuff down around it.

In any case, thanks again, and I will play around with it!

I still like having the tent outside the compartment so I can pack everything else and be ready to walk out of camp right after we take down our tent, but I don't see a lot of other people doing it this way. Seems pretty logical to me!

Anyway, maybe my M/L torso size will work better with the load packed right.

Depending on the pack- you could probably put the pad against your butt- nice to have something soft there- with the sleep clothes/stove towards the outside. Nice not to have a hard stove against your butt. This probably doesn't take up much "height" with the pack standing up.

I have a home-made food bag- 8x8x24" tall to keep the tube shape and my heaviest items centered. But yes, assuming it fits fine- 12" wide by 20" tall is pretty good too. I keep mine up a bit, but with a 19" torso you may not have room to push the food bag much higher than a few inches off the bottom of the pack. Move some of your heavier ditty bag items to the food bag too. (spare batteries, sewing kits, etc. that you don't need daily)

As fer the tent- the better place to carry it if you want it out would be over the closed body but under the lid. That way it's up high and tighter to your shoulders but still easy to get to.

Another option is to remove the poles from the tent bag, slip those into the pack along the outsides and stuff the tent into any dead space remaining in the body. So it's still the "last in, first out" but packs better. Without the poles you may find the tent forms a "U" that wraps the food bag pretty well.

In general- the more compact and tight you make your load- the better it carries and packs.
Also a "slack" pack tends to shift more- meaning that finding a way to fill your pack is also a form of balancing the load and stabilizing it. One trick commonly used is two food bags in/shelter out. When the first food bag is emptied up and space opens up, the shelter goes in the pack. In UL packs- a full main compartment greatly assists the frame by creating a rigid pack body.

Osprey is generally a cadillac, I think you'll be disappointed trying to switch to a cottage pack unless you go way overboard in terms of the intended load. Getting the load balanced first will fix problems with most packs and it may turn out you don't have a problem!

If rebalancing the load doesn't fix everything- I would second the recommendation to try the Exos 48 at an REI, the butterfly frame hugs hips well and transfers great for shorter torso folks. If you have wider hips, the frame pinches a bit, but if it fits you right it can carry 50+ pretty comfortably in a 2lb package.

[Studlintsean]

I haven't had the chance to read everything so I apologize if this was already addressed but I have the circuit, generally carry about 20 lbs, and put my Tarptent Contrail in one side pocket and two 1 liter platypus in the other side. Hope this helps a bit.

[Namtrag]

pack2.jpg

Here is a pic of my pack from about a year ago. I remember it was a pretty long trip in Grayson Highlands, so I am guessing I had total pack weight of about 30. I am 5'8" and 200lbs, so am pretty stout around the chest and midsection...I just feel like the pack straps aren't quite long enough or thick enough to be comfortable. Like those two little candy bar pockets on the front of the shoulder straps. I am pretty sure they are supposed to be 9-12" further down in front than they are. lol

To me, it looks like the pack is riding 2-3" below where it should. I thing the bottom of the hip belt is at my waist.


Maybe my problem on my recent trip was the fact that my tent was soaking wet, as were most of my clothes. I bet I was pushing upper 30's to 40 lbs until the food got down a bit.

[Dochartaigh]

I would look into a Zpacks Arc Haul personally. My max weight is around 22 pounds with food/water/fuel (more like 17-18 for weekend trips which I normally do) and my Arc Blast has been incredibly comfortable. The Arc Haul is the same basic design but beefed up for slightly heavier loads like yours.

I tried the GG Gorilla (little brother to the Mariposa) and didn't like how no matter how I packed it the back would bow-out since there's no frame in the middle there (only a flimsy sheet of foam). I tried the ULA Ohm 2.0 as well and found similar. The extra stay in the ULA Circuit should combat that phenomenon hopefully though (can't add more on that exact pack since I haven't tried it).

My second go-to pack is the Exos 58 like several have mentioned. I just don't see the waist belt being beefy enough for the loads you're trying to carry (but of course that completely depends on you and how you handle a loaded pack). The Exos is great for my loads the couple weekends I've tried it (keep on going back to my Arc Blast so it hasn't gotten that much use...), but I think upper of 30 pounds would be pushing it no matter what weight they specify it can handle. You'll see what I mean when you handle the pack - the waist belt is a funky mesh that isn't that solid at all.

[Namtrag]

I haven't had the chance to read everything so I apologize if this was already addressed but I have the circuit, generally carry about 20 lbs, and put my Tarptent Contrail in one side pocket and two 1 liter platypus in the other side. Hope this helps a bit.

Yeah, that is a lot lighter than my load, but I think the Circuit can handle it ok.

I would look into a Zpacks Arc Haul personally. My max weight is around 22 pounds with food/water/fuel (more like 17-18 for weekend trips which I normally do) and my Arc Blast has been incredibly comfortable. The Arc Haul is the same basic design but beefed up for slightly heavier loads like yours.

I tried the GG Gorilla (little brother to the Mariposa) and didn't like how no matter how I packed it the back would bow-out since there's no frame in the middle there (only a flimsy sheet of foam). I tried the ULA Ohm 2.0 as well and found similar. The extra stay in the ULA Circuit should combat that phenomenon hopefully though (can't add more on that exact pack since I haven't tried it).

My second go-to pack is the Exos 58 like several have mentioned. I just don't see the waist belt being beefy enough for the loads you're trying to carry (but of course that completely depends on you and how you handle a loaded pack). The Exos is great for my loads the couple weekends I've tried it (keep on going back to my Arc Blast so it hasn't gotten that much use...), but I think upper of 30 pounds would be pushing it no matter what weight they specify it can handle. You'll see what I mean when you handle the pack - the waist belt is a funky mesh that isn't that solid at all.

Yeah, the Z Packs look great, but they are up above my price range unless I win the lottery . I may go try on an Exos and take all my crap to load in it. Just to see how it rides.

[Dochartaigh]

Yeah, the Z Packs look great, but they are up above my price range unless I win the lottery .

$305 vs. $220 for the Osprey (and add 6% sales tax if bought in a store . Not a very large price difference when we're talking about high-end camping gear. ZPacks also custom makes the packs to your exact specs - so you'll know it fits perfectly (Ospey is only available in 3 sizes -with no torso adjustment to boot- which may not be exactly perfect for you).

[Namtrag]

True Dochartaigh. It might be worth it to get a pack that fits that well!

I was reading their site and they are very vague on torso sizing. Here is what they say to do " Your best bet for sizing is to find an existing pack that you like and measure it directly". That's rough in my case since I can't find a pack that I like! lol

I am going to read up some more on the Arc Haul to get more informed. It's definitely a contender!