Planning a thru-hike attempt with my dog -- advice on getting him in physical shape?

[oliviamariana]

Hey everyone, I'm planning a thru-hike attempt with my black lab/rhodesian ridgeback mix in about 2 years (we'll both need some training and practice). I've done lots of day trips with him, and in the next year will be starting to take him on longer trips. I'll be hiking the GR10 in Spain without him to make sure that I'M up to the task. I'll likely be hiking with a friend who's doing her second attempt with her dog (she was injured in a car accident and had to stop). My dad will likely be joining me in the beginning, some of the harder sections of the AT, and on my shorter practice runs such as the GR10 to show me the ropes (he's completed several thru-hikes).

For those who have issues with ill-trained dogs on the trail, he is already well behaved and is going through some very serious obedience training this year with a reputable gun-dog trainer since my experiences with duck dogs have been overwhelmingly positive that way. I won't be taking anything but a perfectly behaved dog on the trail.

I've found a lot of information about getting ME ready but very little about helping Diesel get physically fit for the trail. We live in a very flat area and I'm in school so most of his trail and camping practice will be on flat, wetland, ground. What can I do to prepare him for the task of hiking a mountainous trail like the AT? I've read that dogs do not adjust in the first few weeks and get "trail legs" the way humans do and so I want to prepare him beforehand.

Thanks in advance y'all!

[squeezebox]

What does your trainer think? I'm glad to hear he is well behaved.

[oliviamariana]

Most of the conditioning he's done with him has been in the water, and the end result is that he's a faster swimmer than I am (and I was a very serious competitive swimmer). That'll be super helpful when he's off duck hunting with my boyfriend but not so much when he's on the trail with me. (We try and take him along for all of our respective outdoor adventures since we live in a small apartment)

Given that the trainer isn't a hiker and is born and raised in super-flat Louisiana he's a bit at a loss.

[oliviamariana]

The only thing I've thought of has been letting him walk on a treadmill with an incline to build up his strength...is that insane?

[Fredt4]

Many have hiked with their dogs and the general consensus is that you're asking the dog to do more than they're capable of. Go ahead and cripple the dog or doom it to an early demise but unless you thoroughly researched it your doing the dog a great disservice. Just saying . . .

[oliviamariana]

Many have hiked with their dogs and the general consensus is that you're asking the dog to do more than they're capable of. Go ahead and cripple the dog or doom it to an early demise but unless you thoroughly researched it your doing the dog a great disservice. Just saying . . .

Clearly I'm starting to do that thorough research and so far that really doesn't seem to be the general consensus. Ridgebacks are bred to travel long distances while hunting in Africa -- I'm not proposing that I take a cocker spaniel hiking.

[Fredt4]

I'm not familiar with comebacks but I've had labs for many years. I would expect a lab to experience hip problems. Seen it many times.

[/quote] They are not likely to do a hip replacement (THR) on a 10 year old dog though if she has a cruciate injury they may do a TPLO** -- Hips most folks are able to treat with medicines but if it is the cruciate ligament (and labs are particularly prone to cruciate injuries) surgery is usually the best option. But a good vet should be able to tell if it is the cruciate by doing physical manipulation (shelf test)....I would do the x-rays if it were my dog (I did for my old guy who wound up having some back problems)

Hopefully the dog in question is very lean and kept active with low impact type activities -- walking in chest high water is particularly good. Swimming may or may not be because they tend to overextend.

**which is pretty extensive but it depends on level of tear, weight of dog ect. Big dogs are more likely to need the TPLO instead of a simple ligament repair.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/dogs/...#ixzz3gyVyeigR [/quote]

[nsherry61]

I'm not planning a thru-hike with my dog, but there are some disturbingly negative posts about the chance of anyone with any dog being a responsible owner if they consider doing it. Given my dog's enthusiasm for the trail, and the fact that she'll keep up with me on 25 mile moutainbike rides with demoralizing enthusiasm and do week long backpack trips at 15 to 20 miles per day without any evident problems, i'd sure like to see some resonsible and knowledable helpful feedback from someone that works with highly athletic dogs doing long distance hiking instead of read what appears like a bunch of very negative, non-specific, judgemental, not-neccesarily expert advice.

[Traveler]

I'm not planning a thru-hike with my dog, but there are some disturbingly negative posts about the chance of anyone with any dog being a responsible owner if they consider doing it. Given my dog's enthusiasm for the trail, and the fact that she'll keep up with me on 25 mile moutainbike rides with demoralizing enthusiasm and do week long backpack trips at 15 to 20 miles per day without any evident problems, i'd sure like to see some resonsible and knowledable helpful feedback from someone that works with highly athletic dogs doing long distance hiking instead of read what appears like a bunch of very negative, non-specific, judgemental, not-neccesarily expert advice.

The OP asked for opinions, which they are getting. What you will mostly find here are people who have either hiked with dogs or have seen whats happened to some who have done long distance trails with a dog. Experience can provide some insights, however some experiences will likely not fit well with preconceptions, which will seem negative. Blunt can be seen as "judgmental" when its simple honesty.

As far as dog fitness for the trail goes, probably the first thing one needs to do is what everyone should do, seek some professional medical advice before they make the attempt. This would fall into your "expert advice" niche. Questions should include;

Is my dog in shape to walk 15 miles per day, everyday for a week before a zero day and repeat this for several months? If not, what is the best way to condition it for this kind of work?

Is my dog able to find its own way up/down steep rock falls and slabs or will I have to carry it past those obstacles? How can I do this and not hurt the dog?

How much weight should I put on the dogs back if I get a pack for it? What type of pack should I get for the dog?

What food should I be taking and how much per day?

What are the signs the dog has picked up a parasite, bacterial infection, or virus from water or nibbling things it finds on the ground? How do I treat the dog for these?

What are the common joint problems that can develop and what are the signs they are occurring? Are these cured/mitigated by rest or once they appear is the dog finished with the hike?

How do I care for the dogs paws, what kind of nail clipping equipment do I need, where do I cut the nail back to? How can I tell when the paw pads are getting bruised on rough terrain? Should I invest in booties?

What are the signs the dog is too hot or too cold? How do I treat those conditions?

Given all of the above (and other questions that may arise), should I bring the dog with me or is it in the best health interests of the dog to remain at home?

The expert Vet advice will cost a few bucks, but is well worth finding out first hand if the dog is up to the work, the training regimen, or conversely, if the dog should stay put and guard hearth and home until you return.

There are a few places along the trail that dogs are not allowed on the AT. GMSP, Harriman NY (zoo), and BSP do not allow them in their boundary areas. Arrangements will need to be made to kennel and shuttle the dog around the parks (the zoo you can walk around) well in advance of your arrival, so there are some logistical steps in this.

[nsherry61]

Thanks AT Traveler. Great list of informative questions.

I'd love to see discussion around the questions you raise. I think that would make for a lot of help for many of us.

I'd love to hear stories from people that have done some of or completed thru-hikes with their dogs and what did and didn't work.
What is some advice to help it work as well as possible, regardless of overall completion success.

[MuddyWaters]

I'm not planning a thru-hike with my dog, but there are some disturbingly negative posts about the chance of anyone with any dog being a responsible owner if they consider doing it. Given my dog's enthusiasm for the trail, and the fact that she'll keep up with me on 25 mile moutainbike rides with demoralizing enthusiasm and do week long backpack trips at 15 to 20 miles per day without any evident problems, i'd sure like to see some resonsible and knowledable helpful feedback from someone that works with highly athletic dogs doing long distance hiking instead of read what appears like a bunch of very negative, non-specific, judgemental, not-neccesarily expert advice.

Your right.
But at the same time, the majority of people that think it would be great to hike with their dog, havent thought it thru. A dose of negativity isnt a bad thing necessarilly, even if they did not ask for it.

It will greatly lower the already low chance for a successful thru hike and expose the dog to hardships.

Just like people, running is about the best training you can do, outside of actually hiking extensively and routinely with a pack. If the dog goes on 5 mile runs with you, its ready. It takes a long time to get a dog used to a pack, and then used to carrying weight in it as well.

Ive met at least a dozen people on trails where their dog had lost their pack in the woods before. Sometimes ripping the pack off the harness. One couple had lost their dogs packs TWICE on a single trip, and were hiking out again after the second time. This seems to be a problem if dogs are let roam around unleashed, they snag the pack on something.

It can take a while to get a dog first used to wearing a pack, and then used to carrying weight, and then carrying weight for 20 miles in steep mountains.

[oliviamariana]

Thank you to those of you who offered actual advice (questions to ask my vet, how to prepare my dog, etc.)! I actually did not ask for opinions, I asked for advice in preparing him if I do choose to take him on the trail, but I'm aware that I'm going to get a whole lot of opinions as a side-effect and that's ok. This is a forum after all. In the end the decision to take him will be between me, my vet, and Diesel (but he seems to LOVE hiking and has enough separation anxiety that he'd be pretty miserable if left home)

But I can clarify some things to help get better advice and opinions:

I'm aware of the logistical issues with the portions of trail where he's not allowed (I actually started another thread asking about those since I feel like they're a very different kind of issue from training).

He does currently go for an approximately 5 mile workout most days. As I get in better shape more of that will be spent running and less will be spent walking. Any advice on how else to physically prepare him would be appreciated since I feel like an important part of avoiding injury and health problems will be making sure I'm not throwing him into something he's not ready for.

He will always be on a leash unless I'm on a particularly empty stretch of trail, at which point I may evaluate it and consider letting him have a little bit more fun for a few minutes. On the leash note, there are a few things I could use input on: would y'all recommend a handheld retractable leash, a standard rope leash, or the bungee I use when running that attaches to a belt around my waist? Also, because he is such a strong dog and there will be new sights and smells on the trail that could excite even the best trained dog, I'm considering bringing along a training collar like the one we used when he was still pulling -- thoughts on this?

[oliviamariana]

Also his body type leans more towards ridgeback than lab. For those who aren't familiar with the breed they tend to be very leggy, muscular dogs bred for running long distances with minimal water and hunting lions in Africa. I'm hoping the fact that he's basically a mutt (his lab side includes a few other breeds) will help to offset any breed-specific health problems.

[gypsy97]

Thank you to those of you who offered actual advice (questions to ask my vet, how to prepare my dog, etc.)! I actually did not ask for opinions, I asked for advice in preparing him if I do choose to take him on the trail, but I'm aware that I'm going to get a whole lot of opinions as a side-effect and that's ok. This is a forum after all. In the end the decision to take him will be between me, my vet, and Diesel (but he seems to LOVE hiking and has enough separation anxiety that he'd be pretty miserable if left home)

But I can clarify some things to help get better advice and opinions:

I'm aware of the logistical issues with the portions of trail where he's not allowed (I actually started another thread asking about those since I feel like they're a very different kind of issue from training).

He does currently go for an approximately 5 mile workout most days. As I get in better shape more of that will be spent running and less will be spent walking. Any advice on how else to physically prepare him would be appreciated since I feel like an important part of avoiding injury and health problems will be making sure I'm not throwing him into something he's not ready for.

He will always be on a leash unless I'm on a particularly empty stretch of trail, at which point I may evaluate it and consider letting him have a little bit more fun for a few minutes. On the leash note, there are a few things I could use input on: would y'all recommend a handheld retractable leash, a standard rope leash, or the bungee I use when running that attaches to a belt around my waist? Also, because he is such a strong dog and there will be new sights and smells on the trail that could excite even the best trained dog, I'm considering bringing along a training collar like the one we used when he was still pulling -- thoughts on this?

I got rid of the leash after the 2nd day out of Springer. He kept trying to walk around me and was tripping me up, plus he refused to go across a small bridge. Someone hiking with me suggested I take the leash off, and the dog went into the ditch and up the hillside rather than cross the ditch on the bridge. He carried a pack and I found he didn't stray off the trail as long as he had his pack on, so I saved the leash for when I was in a town.

[oliviamariana]

I got rid of the leash after the 2nd day out of Springer. He kept trying to walk around me and was tripping me up, plus he refused to go across a small bridge. Someone hiking with me suggested I take the leash off, and the dog went into the ditch and up the hillside rather than cross the ditch on the bridge. He carried a pack and I found he didn't stray off the trail as long as he had his pack on, so I saved the leash for when I was in a town.

I'm inclined to agree that off-leash is the best option for me and Diesel, but I know many people on the trail won't appreciate that. Especially since he is very inquisitive and friendly and likely to try and say hi to the people we meet. He's a face licker.

[OCDave]

Consider looking into sites about the John Beargrease and Iditarod dogsled races. Just guessing that burden on those animals will be a bit more extreme than your hike but, you might find some useful animal care tips or strategies that your could apply.

[Slo-go'en]

I'm inclined to agree that off-leash is the best option for me and Diesel, but I know many people on the trail won't appreciate that. Especially since he is very inquisitive and friendly and likely to try and say hi to the people we meet. He's a face licker.

There are places, like the Shenandoah NP where dogs are required to be on a leash 100% of the time. That is to protect you, your dog, the abundant wildlife and the hoards of other hikers. Keeping you dog off leash is a common practice but it does have risks. More then a few dogs have run off after wildlife and are never seen again.

We could go on and on about all the negative things about taking a dog on a thru, but the sad, cruel fact is bringing a dog along significantly reduces your chances of completing a thru hike. A thru hike is hard on people, it's even harder on dogs.

[Malto]

Thank you to those of you who offered actual advice (questions to ask my vet, how to prepare my dog, etc.)! I actually did not ask for opinions, I asked for advice in preparing him if I do choose to take him on the trail, but I'm aware that I'm going to get a whole lot of opinions as a side-effect and that's ok. This is a forum after all. In the end the decision to take him will be between me, my vet, and Diesel (but he seems to LOVE hiking and has enough separation anxiety that he'd be pretty miserable if left home)

Interesting emphasis from your perspective. I would change it to "but he SEEMS to love hiking" because this is the biggest issue, he has no way of telling you there's a problem.

as to your question, treat it the same way you would train yourself. Simulate the distance and if possible the elevation gain and conditions as closely as possible. I also believe the Malto hiking mileage rule (you can sustain a pace for multiple days equal to 2/3's your single day distance with comparable elevation change.) so if I were planning to take a dog and starting out at say 12 miles a day then I would have multiple 18 days under both my trail runners and Fido's paws.

Lone final thought, Either Fido will have separation anxiety or you will be missing two key pieces of trail, GSMNP and Baxter.

[oliviamariana]

Interesting emphasis from your perspective. I would change it to "but he SEEMS to love hiking" because this is the biggest issue, he has no way of telling you there's a problem.

as to your question, treat it the same way you would train yourself. Simulate the distance and if possible the elevation gain and conditions as closely as possible. I also believe the Malto hiking mileage rule (you can sustain a pace for multiple days equal to 2/3's your single day distance with comparable elevation change.) so if I were planning to take a dog and starting out at say 12 miles a day then I would have multiple 18 days under both my trail runners and Fido's paws.

Lone final thought, Either Fido will have separation anxiety or you will be missing two key pieces of trail, GSMNP and Baxter.

I disagree that he has no way of telling me there's a problem -- animals are usually pretty clear about saying something's up and I'm in pain but we as people aren't usually listening. I learned that one the hard way in high school when a horse threw me because her teeth hurt. I broke my leg in three places and never forgot that lesson.

I plan on having Diesel kenneled during GSMNP and Baxter. He's a service dog and I could technically bring him but my condition isn't life-threatening and I know he'd probably appreciate the rest.

I can simulate the distance, the troublesome part will be elevation gain.

[oliviamariana]

There are places, like the Shenandoah NP where dogs are required to be on a leash 100% of the time. That is to protect you, your dog, the abundant wildlife and the hoards of other hikers. Keeping you dog off leash is a common practice but it does have risks. More then a few dogs have run off after wildlife and are never seen again.

We could go on and on about all the negative things about taking a dog on a thru, but the sad, cruel fact is bringing a dog along significantly reduces your chances of completing a thru hike. A thru hike is hard on people, it's even harder on dogs.

Don't worry -- I intend to keep him on leash. As I said, it'd be ideal to go without a leash for the two of us, but I respect that there are leash laws, other hikers, and legitimate concerns.

For me a failed attempt at a thru-hike with my dog would be a great experience but a successful one without him would be awfully lonely.