Black/blue toe nails

[sethd513]

Hello! My name is Ashley- I am using my husbands account looking for some insight or helpful tips. We have been hiking several years doing day trips. As of this year we have started doing backpacking trips 1-3 nights at a time. We range between 8-15 miles a day depending on the terrain.

Two trips ago, we went up and did a 30 mile loop on a section of LT/AT for an overnight (15 miles each day). We ended up doing 3-4 miles of road-walking to complete the loop. I was wearing my vasque 2.0 and the weather was mid 70s and dry. Our gain/decent was approx 4,700 feet. For the last decent- we decended 1,000 feet in the last mile out of trail before a road walk and my feet (specifically my toes) were in agony. Once we got to the road I took off my shoes and put on my camp flip flops. I felt some relief, however my toes swollen, red and they were numb/tingling on my right lateral side of foot for nearly a week. My pinky toe has had no capillary refill since and the nail is purple/black. It is not separating from the bed. Also had hot spot blisters on both my heels/achilles area.

Our most recent trip last week was in The white mountains and we did 9 miles the first day AT north from 302 and looped down Crawford path due to bad weather conditions expected. Second day was approx 8 miles. I ended up wearing my Merrell mid moabs which are very broken in but not worn out. I put in some foot support for my high arch and heel section for this hike. I have never had issues with my moabs- however my feet felt slightly soar and both my big toenails developed a big round black and blue spot that doesn't reach the nail bed. It is slightly tender but just doesn't look good. I'm past the aesthetic unpleasantry but I would like to avoid any further problems and potential loss of toenails.

But like I said above- I did add the arch support this past trip so maybe my feet had too little room? Our miles are overall increasing- and will hopefully only grow and become easier. The whites had some tough terrain and our pace was hard to keep up as it ended up being an ozone day.

Has anyone had similar issues? Any suggestions or helpful information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!


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[BirdBrain]

I lose many toenails every year. I only lost 2 so far this year. You will get many tips. Hopefully they help. Try as I may, I lose them. Once you have lost a couple, it will be less scary. Some people just lose them. Again, you will get tips. I won't give any because it does not work for me. I post to give hope. It is not a huge issue to lose them. I have actually toyed with the idea of having them taken off before the season. Once they are off, it feels great within a day or two.

[nsherry61]

You are describing several problems that may all have to do with progressive aging that requires changing what worked the year before.

1A) You will probably loose your black toenails. With care, they may not come off until the new nail has grown out with them, but almost surely you will have an old toenail being replaced by a new one over the next few months.
1B) Two important things in keeping toenails healthy in the future. 1) You probably need longer shoes/boots. What is comfortable walking and hiking short distances no longer works as our feet swell over time with hiking longer distances. Also, as we continue to age, many of us experience what is essentially permanent foot growth requiring the next size up in shoes as the years move onward. I was a 12.5 in college, 13 in my 30s, 14 in my 40s, and now requre 15 in most brands. My feet are still strong, and I'm not convinced it is all arch/foot/tendon aging as some foot doctors may claim, I think there is also some real growth, likely from continued healthy stress that grows bones throughout our body over time. . . keep jumping and lifting heavy things to stimulate good bone calcification with age. 2) There is an art to toenail trimming and filing. Most people think about keeping their toenails short after experiencing the problems you've had. Many people don't realized how much improvement can be had by filing the nails down very smooth and thin over the end. If you can drag your finger over the end of your toenail and feel any kind of a ridge in the transition between the end of your toe and the start of your nail, file it down further and smother. Some people file the leading edge of the nail down to where it is literally paper thin. It does't hurt and it can dramatically reduce the stress on your nail and nail bed under hard hiking - especially downhill or in slightly small shoes.

2) You have high arches and are having problems with sensation in your toes - nerve irritation and damage to the nerves running along the top of your foot - mine took almost a year to heal, so be gentile and patient. This is a common problem with shoes that put pressure on the tops of your feet caused by high volume arches and 1) lacing too tight, 2) shoes that don't have space for your high arch, or 3) shoes with too much arch support in them forcing your foot to bend (dorsoflex) to much in a way that apparently exposes the nerves, and then takes up the space you foot needs otherwise. I would recommend not using your high arch support unless it is absolutely necessary to address other problems, get a shoe with more room for your high arches (hard to find, but worth looking for), and learn to lace your shoes in a way to reduce pressure along the top of your foot - this link may give you a few basic techniques - there are many more tricks to work with if these don't satisfy your lacing needs.

Finally, if you haven't already started using trekking poles, doing so can take a great deal of the peak impact force off your feet on descents as well as significantly reducing the push-off force with each step moving forward when you are trying to hike quickly.

There are also a walking techniques to reduce downward and forward force on your toes as you descend. One thing to try is planting your heal and using your shin muscles to slow the forward roll of your foot. This will cause some very sore shin muscles and/or shin splints if you don't build up your muscles to do this - like any other new exercise. Also, you can exaggerate your feminine side as you descend, relaxing your hips and letting them roll or sway to absorb the downward energy (like a horse going down a steep hill if you have ever ridden or watched horses much).

Good luck!

[Del Q]

What works for me is shoes 1/2 size larger, as for blisters, I use women's knee high nylons with foot powder, then a good sock on top...........works great, like no blisters since. That is about 1000 or more miles ago.

[Vegan Packer]

They also make shoes that have larger toe boxes. Look for those.

[sethd513]

Thank you all very much for all of the great tips and encouragement!

I am looking into getting a pair of trail runners. Anyone have any suggestions for any certain brand/style?


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[Wyoming]

Good info by sherry. Some additional points.

There are only a few ways for the black toenails to happen.

1. wrong size shoes
2. Shoes not tied properly
3. Walking technique.

Put your shoes on and kick (really kick) something that will not move. If your toes hit the end of the shoe it either does not fit (too small) or is not tied right. Fitting properly as mentioned is a possible fix, but if your shoe is fit right then you have to tie it tighter. This presents issues depending on the hiker. I tie my shoes very tight aT the top to the point it hurts a little. In the first 15 mins of walking the little bit of slack in the laces and shoe works out and then the tight lace does not hurt any more. I can kick anything and the toes are fine. A side advantage of this tight lacing is that my heel cannot move in the shoe so it is very hard to get blisters on the back of the heel. But there are folks who just cannot use this technique I just described. So you might try it and see if it works for you - or not. The big point though is that no matter what you do you cannot have the toes sliding into contact with the front end of the shoe. BTW not everyones feet swell way up as they hike so starting out with a larger shoe planning on swelling is not a good plan in general. One is much more prone to getting blisters with an oversize shoe. If your feet swell after a week or two of hiking then switch to a bigger shoe then.

Item 3 about walking technique is something that some of us can fix and others not. If when you walk you lift your toes (like when wearing flip flops or sandals) and they rub on the top of the shoe it is very easy to develop blisters under the toe nails. My wife has this problem bad. We have been hiking together for 35 years and she just cannot stop doing it. So even though her shoes fit and are tied right if we walk far enough she gets black and blue toe nails and loses the nails. If this is your problem all you can do is practice thinking about not lifting your toes when you walk (a good idea barefoot but not necessary when in shoes) and see if over time you can retrain yourself.

Re your question about shoe models. Everyone is different so the best thing to do is try on LOTS of models of trail runners (and walking shoes) and see what fits you the best and you like the best. There is no right answer except for what works best for you.

The blister issue is hard to address. It does not sound like you have been hiking enough to have proper callus's. Even if you are wearing the perfect shoe, if you go out and hike on a hot day (or with wet feet) for much further than you have trained for there is a good chance of getting heat (or friction) generated blisters on the bottoms of your feet. You can actually get them just standing around on very hot pavement for 4-5 hours. Try different sock options to see if it helps. Like shoes there is no right answer on socks. Some wear 1 very thin sock (me) and others wear a thick sock with a thin liner and others try all sorts of other ways. You have to see what works best for you. Blisters come from a combo of heat, moisture and friction. If you eliminate most of any two of those you will not get many blisters.

Re the foot pain. Some of us (me included) always have sore feet after hiking (not pain like real damage was done but sore). I also get numb toes if I hike everyday for a month or more. Many have this problem and it seems to be independent of age as many of the 20 something thru hikers I have known had it just as bad as me. It does seem a lot more prevalent in those wearing trail runners or running shoes. They are softer and the rocks poke the bottoms of your feet much more than with a hard soled shoe.

[jockellis]

Go on YouTube and see if there are any WW II US Army training films on personal hygiene. IIRC, the army was big on keeping your toenails closely trimmed. And as previously noted, tie your laces tight at the ankle so they cannot slide forward in your shoe.


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[jefals]

I've experienced this also 2 or 3 times. The last time was so painful, my hiking bud was afraid I wasn't going to make it down the mountain - as I was shouting out with pain on each step.
I didn't realize till I had this issue, but one of my feet is larger than the other. I now wear hiking boots 1/2 size longer than the longest foot. And definitely keep the nails trimmed. Since I've been doing these two things, I haven't had this problem again.

[gbolt]

I have found the major cause to be "road walking". I beleive there is increase swelling and sweating in hiking shoes from the pavement. When a return to the trail occurs, blisters and the foot sliding forward into the toe box occurs. Shoes that never gave me blister or nail bed problems, result in both after road walking. I accept some of this as the price to be paid to hike. I do try to limit problems by changing to dryer socks and lacing boots differently to stop foot slide; after a road section. Many times, I just get lazy and push through to camp and camp shoes. Search lacing boots or hiking shoes on You Tube. There are creative way's to lace them in order to solve foot issues whether using Merril Moab's or Trail Runners.