Pack size

[Arden]

Hi;
I am shopping for a backpack. Currently I am looking at Osprey packs - Aether and Volt 60 litre.
Before I decide on a pack, I need to know what will go into it, right?
I bought an Alps Mountaineering Lynx 1 tent, which packs to 6" x 17.5" (not sure if that includes the poles), so volume is 495 cu in. I will receive the tent tomorrow.
I already own a Sierra Designs Wyatt Earp 0 deg bag, which weighs 4lbs and packs to 1570 cu in (with compression straps cinched around the sack)
So, if I keep my current sleeping bag, then I already have about 2065 cu in filled and about 8lbs not including the pack.

Other items I will need to carry are:
Food for 3 days - stored in a dry/bear bag
stove: I own an MSR that is kind of bulky - may replace it
set of nested pots (I won't need the whole set)
extra clothes - depends on the weather - my 1st trip will be mid October with others during the cooler months.

Either the Aether or the Volt are 3661 cu in for the 60L size.

Is this a reasonable pack volume for the tent and bag, or do I need to go up to a larger pack size if I am going to keep my old sleeping bag?

Just for comparison, I used to own a Gregory Wind River size M which was 6085 cu in, and I managed to pack it full - total weight was 50+ lbs.
Now, I plan to carry not more than 30 lbs, which may limit me in what I can and cannot take, but I am thinking of doing some winter backpacking, so I need extra room for clothing, more food, etc.

Perhaps the right thing to do is to bring my gear to the outdoor store and see how it fits into the pack. Only problem with that is it will cost me significantly more money to purchase a pack locally than it will if I buy it online.

[Traveler]

Perhaps the right thing to do is to bring my gear to the outdoor store and see how it fits into the pack. Only problem with that is it will cost me significantly more money to purchase a pack locally than it will if I buy it online.

This is probably the best way to ensure your gear and the pack are a good match. You may be surprised the pack(s) you believe will work may not and the outfitter will have others that fit the bill nicely. The slightly higher cost would be offset by the selection process to get you into a pack that is good for your load, rides well, and will accommodate your space needs. You will also be more likely to find someone at the outfitter who knows their stuff and can be a real help in fitting a pack.

Saving a few bucks on a pack via on-line ordering quickly dissolves when you have to send one or two back before you find the right fit, though for pack makers who do not have retail locations or resellers its the only method you have.

Good luck!

[bigcranky]

So, a couple of thoughts:

You'll end up carrying the tent on the outside of the pack most days, since it'll often be soaking wet. Nothing like a wet tent inside your pack to get everything else wet. So don't worry about getting it inside.

I have a pretty high end winter down bag, and it's not easy to get inside a 60 liter pack with all my other stuff. A Polarguard 0-F bag is going to be huge and take up most of the space inside.

If you start with 12 pounds of tent/pack/bag, it's going to be a challenge to keep your total pack weight below 30.

Getting all your stuff to an outfitter is a fine idea.

Good luck and hapy trails.

[Venchka]

Sierra Designs Wyatt Earp 0 deg bag, which weighs 4lbs and packs to 1570 cu in

I would correct that problem first. In fact, I did just that. Expensive? Yes. Worth it? You bet.
4 pounds for the bag & 4 pounds for the tent? I thought that my antiques were heavy. The gear that I have replaced was lighter.
If you go to a well stocked backpack store, you might also look at this pack. The Osprey Atmos 65. All packs will not fit the same. Find one that fits you and your gear.

Wayne

[Arden]

Thanks for your help guys;
I guess this time I won't order online, even though the savings is more than a few bucks ($50-ish). But if I end up with a pack that doesn't fit, then it's a loss of a lot more than $50.
That way, if I have trouble with the fit of my new pack, the store will be able to make adjustments - and probably not charge me for it - whereas if I buy it online, they might not want to do anything for me, or charge me a substantial fee.
I would love to replace my old sleeping bag with a down model - and I don't need 0 deg. If it ever does get that cold, I'll just add more layers of fleece to my body.

I am not an ultralight hiker - never will be. I could have saved space and weight by going with a different tent, or a tarp - but I wouldn't be happy. I need to feel just a little more secure than just what a tarp would provide - and I don't like to feel like a sardine squeezed inside my tent. The Lynx 1 is half the weight of my previous (MH Nightview 2 person) tent was - actually is - I still own that tent. But the MH is a 4 season tent, which I never used to its capacity.

[Venchka]

I hear you. I'm hanging onto gear that could easily be replaced. Or maybe not. Not everything new is better than older classics.
I have replaced my sleep system. New bag, pad & pillow. The difference is amazing in quality of sleep and I saved at least a pound+.
I'm still on the fence about replacing my backpacks and/or tent.
My thinking is that if something works for me and is paid for then I will continue to use it.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Have fun!

Wayne

[Namtrag]

I am going to go against the grain, but I say get a 40-50 liter pack first (Osprey Talon 44, Osprey Exos 48, ULA Circuit, etc), then make your gear fit. Like Big Cranky said above, most days you will want the tent on the outside, so you should be able to fit all your gear in the main pack body of any of these packs. I went through the process by buying too big a pack (60 liters), and it's way too big now.

The two Osprey packs I mentioned both have straps on the bottom where you can carry a rolled up tent, and the ULA I think would easily fit a tent into the front pocket.

If you buy from ULA, they definitely take returns, answer questions, and make sure your pack fits. In fact, it's best to call them and describe yourself, then Chris will let you know what backpack to get, what length to get, and how big a hip belt you should order.

Good luck and google you tube videos on the packs you are interested in. There are a lot of videos showing people's packs and how and what they put in them.

Edit: my only caveat is, if you plan on going where you might need a bear cannister, all bets are off for my advice. lol

[Arden]

Namtrag said <Edit: my only caveat is, if you plan on going where you might need a bear cannister, all bets are off for my advice. lol >

Believe it or not, I do own a bear canister. Even though I live in the east where the only bears are the "dumb" black ones - and I don't mean to debase our bears - actually I put "dumb" in quotes because I don't believe they are dumb at all. But anyway, I have a "bad" throwing arm(s) and could never get the rock flung high enough to hang my bag - and most of the trees around here don't have large, horizontal branches to hang a bag from. I watched a YouTube vid on how to hang a bear bag using two tree limbs. That should work for me, so long as I can get it high enough, and far enough away from either limb.
I used that bear canister with the Gregory Wind River pack, which I sold few years back - but I kept the canister. Probably could sell it to someone on the west coast, since I understand they are required in certain areas of the sierras.

Back to the subject at hand: Packs.
I will make sure I get a pack with lots of straps for external gear. Of course I will be carrying a sleeping pad as well as the bag. Probably need a new one of those too. My Thermarest don't give me any rest. The newer materials are apparently far superior and lighter - more expensive maybe - but getting enough sleep on the trail has always been a problem for me.

If I add up all that I am spending on new gear, it may add up to as much as I would have spent on a long weekend vacation in a hotel or a cabin - but that's where the equation changes - I won't have to buy the gear again, so my next "vacation" will be pretty much for free! If I look at it that way, I won't have as much trouble coughing up the cash.
That down sleeping bag sounds very enticing. But I think I'll get the pack first, and when I do my shopping, will let the "pak tek" know that I may be wanting to move the sleeping gear into the pack rather than carrying it outside.
I do plan to do mostly cool/cold weather backpacking, and since I still have that heavy 4-season tent, it is still an option - if I can fit it in/on the pack, and I can carry the extra weight. Maybe after a few months carrying the lighter pack I can gradually add more weight to build my strength. It's a lot cheaper than going to a gym

Please excuse me if it sounds like I'm a total newbie to backpacking. I am not - really - although I haven't done it in a while, and I was younger and had fewer physical issues. Now, it's really just my feet - I'm a runner, so I have had trouble with Plantar Fasciitis - and occasionally hip problems - but so far not any knee issues. I don't think I will have any trouble carrying a 30-35lb pack on moderate to steep terrain.
I recall having struggled up the steeps on the Devils Path in the Catskills of NY on warm and buggy days with that Gregory pack loaded to over 50lbs. I was very slow, but I never hiked more than 10 miles at one stretch.
When I buy this pack, my intentions for now are 2-5 day outings, but I would like to be able to use the same equipment if I decide to section or thru-hike the AT.

[Namtrag]

Arden, the packs I listed should be fine for most of your trips, and a Bear Vault 450 I think will lay sideways in all 3. But the ULA Catalyst or Exos 58 may be more suited for you for bear canister purposes, as they are bigger than the 3 I mentioned. Lots of good stuff on you tube on all of these packs.

Good luck, and enjoy the research. It's almost as enjoyable as the hiking!

[Arden]

Arden, the packs I listed should be fine for most of your trips, and a Bear Vault 450 I think will lay sideways in all 3. But the ULA Catalyst or Exos 58 may be more suited for you for bear canister purposes, as they are bigger than the 3 I mentioned. Lots of good stuff on you tube on all of these packs.

Good luck, and enjoy the research. It's almost as enjoyable as the hiking!

I'm going to practice hanging the bear bag before I go on any treks. It shouldn't be a problem. The bear canister I have seems comparable to the bear vault 450 - mine weighs 2lbs also, carries enough food for 5-7 days.
But I would rather leave the canister at home, go with the bag, and if I can still afford the extra 2lbs, I would rather use it for my dual-band amateur band HT, or maybe a small camera - I've got a 3.3 MP Olympus C3040 from 2001 that still takes great shots - better than the 5MP camera built into my Moto e phone.

[Kenai]

Arden, if you have time to go to REI in East Hanover over the weekend or Monday, you can try on the Osprey packs, and get a 30% discount as well. Your info says North Jersey, might be your best bet, if you have the time.

[Harmless]

Don't order a pack online, unless you're replacing an identical model. You really need to wear that pack in the store for 20-30 minutes (at a minimum) before deciding. There's more to a pack than just weight and volume. I really like my Osprey Atmos 65; it is frequently more comfortable than the lighter, smaller Osprey I carry on some trips. I suspect this is because the REI person who helped me with the Atmos just did a better job of fitting it to me.

[Harmless]

I'm with you on the radio. If you do CW, get one of these --- http://www.lnrprecision.com/store/#!...per/p/45010523
All the cool SOTA kids are using them. ;-) You can't go much lighter. In fact, I think my paddles are heavier than the radio!
I just sold my 2-band model of this radio and I'll order one of the new 3-band models when they're back in stock.

[Another Kevin]

Believe it or not, I do own a bear canister. Even though I live in the east where the only bears are the "dumb" black ones - and I don't mean to debase our bears - actually I put "dumb" in quotes because I don't believe they are dumb at all. But anyway, I have a "bad" throwing arm(s) and could never get the rock flung high enough to hang my bag - and most of the trees around here don't have large, horizontal branches to hang a bag from. I watched a YouTube vid on how to hang a bear bag using two tree limbs. That should work for me, so long as I can get it high enough, and far enough away from either limb.
I used that bear canister with the Gregory Wind River pack, which I sold few years back - but I kept the canister. Probably could sell it to someone on the west coast, since I understand they are required in certain areas of the sierras.

Back to the subject at hand: Packs.
I will make sure I get a pack with lots of straps for external gear. Of course I will be carrying a sleeping pad as well as the bag. Probably need a new one of those too. My Thermarest don't give me any rest. The newer materials are apparently far superior and lighter - more expensive maybe - but getting enough sleep on the trail has always been a problem for me.

If I add up all that I am spending on new gear, it may add up to as much as I would have spent on a long weekend vacation in a hotel or a cabin - but that's where the equation changes - I won't have to buy the gear again, so my next "vacation" will be pretty much for free! If I look at it that way, I won't have as much trouble coughing up the cash.
That down sleeping bag sounds very enticing. But I think I'll get the pack first, and when I do my shopping, will let the "pak tek" know that I may be wanting to move the sleeping gear into the pack rather than carrying it outside.
I do plan to do mostly cool/cold weather backpacking, and since I still have that heavy 4-season tent, it is still an option - if I can fit it in/on the pack, and I can carry the extra weight. Maybe after a few months carrying the lighter pack I can gradually add more weight to build my strength. It's a lot cheaper than going to a gym

Please excuse me if it sounds like I'm a total newbie to backpacking. I am not - really - although I haven't done it in a while, and I was younger and had fewer physical issues. Now, it's really just my feet - I'm a runner, so I have had trouble with Plantar Fasciitis - and occasionally hip problems - but so far not any knee issues. I don't think I will have any trouble carrying a 30-35lb pack on moderate to steep terrain.
I recall having struggled up the steeps on the Devils Path in the Catskills of NY on warm and buggy days with that Gregory pack loaded to over 50lbs. I was very slow, but I never hiked more than 10 miles at one stretch.
When I buy this pack, my intentions for now are 2-5 day outings, but I would like to be able to use the same equipment if I decide to section or thru-hike the AT.
[/COLOR]

If you're in North Jersey, don't sell the bear canister yet. You may yet want to hike the ADK High Peaks. and a canister is required there. It can't be a BearVault, either. The genius bears in High Peaks Wilderness know how to open a BV450.

10 miles at a stretch is fine for the Devil's Path! I've only ever done it in three days, with stops at Mink Hollow and Devil's Acre or Diamond Notch. A more aggressive schedule is either putting you on a 15-miler over the west side of it, or else trying to do Indian Head, Twin, Sugarloaf and Plateau in one day, which is seriously hard-core, beyond my ability to tackle safely. I know that the Real Hikers can do the DP as a day trip, but I'm a Clueless Weekender.

If you're planning to be a Catskill hiker again, I actually recommend against having a lot of straps and stuff outboard. (A few places to attach bungee cords or something might be ok.) There are a lot of great routes in the Catskills that go off-trail at one or more points, and everything you have hanging from your pack will, guaranteed, get snagged in the spruce. That's the main reason that this spring I got a Granite Gear Crown VC60 to use in place of the ALPS Mountaineering pack that I'd been using. The compression lacings on the ALPS pack were getting caught on everything!

Why did I pick the VC60? It's decently light: 2 lb 4 oz in the Long (which I need). It's big enough to hold all my gear in three seasons, or enough for a winter day trip (or maybe an overnight if the weather forecast is good). And REI carries it, which was a major point since I had an REI gift certificate. That ruled out some of the cottage manufacturers. It's Colin Fletcher's BGS (Bloody Great Sack), which is fine for me, I don't need or want the extra weight of organizing compartments and zippers and whatnot.

I don't aspire to be an A-T thru hiker. I've done some hikes that are comparable to A-T section hikes - for instance, Northville-Placid Trail in three sections (roughly 70, 35 and 30 miles). On one section I bailed out after four days having started out with a six-day food carry in the pack, and the pack did fine. This was in October near the Lake Placid end, and I got sleet or freezing rain most days.

You don't really need a good throwing arm to get a bearbag line in a tree. You need good rope handling. You sling the rock rather than throwing it, and it takes very little arm strength at all (but some practice). The trick is to get the rope to pay out cleanly.

Hey, are you interested in returning to the Catskills? I still have a half-dozen or so peaks to finish the 3500's. I don't bushwhack solo, but I'm competent to lead a trip. I hate going on the club outings because I'm s-l-o-w, but most of my regular hiking partners have been out of commission for one reason or another. If you don't mind hiking with a slow old man, I can offer some practical bushwhacking experience and I'm a pretty fair trail cook. We can do an easier shakedown first if you're not cool with jumping into trailless peaks right away.

[Kenai]

Arden, if you go to REI check out this bag too. Great reviews, 2 lbs 7 oz. for regular, and it's $210.


http://www.rei.com/product/847520/si...2-sleeping-bag

[Arden]

Another Kevin said <If you're in North Jersey, don't sell the bear canister yet. You may yet want to hike the ADK High Peaks. and a canister is required there. It can't be a BearVault, either. The genius bears in High Peaks Wilderness know how to open a BV450.>

My bear canister isn't the BV-450. It is one of these:http://www.campmor.com/Product___14097
I am surprised - and not - that canisters are required in the Dak high peaks. I heard/read that there have been a lot of bear problems (actually it's people problems for the bears) in the Marcy Dam area.
If I did go to Marcy, I wouldn't go during the warm months, and I would probably start at "The Garden" and hike up the Phelps trail, sleeping somewhere along the route. I have a set of 12-point crampons, snowshoes, and an ice axe. I understand they require snowshoes when there is deep snow - On my hike from Heart Lake to Algonquin summit in December, I used crampons rather than snowshoes - the trail was hard packed, and there was lots of hard ice that snowshoes wouldn't have worked on. I carried the ice axe as well, but used it mainly as a hiking pole.

I'm not sure about the Cats at this point. I would like to get back there, but almost all of my hikes up there were day hikes. On several occasions though, I did carry that Gregory Wind River full up to 50+lbs from the trailhead at the end of Prediger road, over Indian head, and Twin. On one trip I slept at Pecoy Notch. There is no real tent site, and no shelter there, but enough space to pitch a tent. I had planned to continue to the west terminus of the trail, but it was icy, and I didn't own the crampons at that time - I think I might have worn those instep crampons, but they weren't all that much good. So I just took the PN trail back to the road and did a 3-mile road walk back to my car.
Another time I was up there, it was hot, and I climbed from Prediger up the JD trail to JD notch, then up over Sugarloaf, and slept at Mink Hollow. I returned on the 2nd day. So I never did make it all the way through.

I don't know how fast or slow I am at this point. I'm about 10yrs older than I was on my last backpacking trip, but I have been running ultra-marathons since 2010.

Thanks for the tip on hanging a bear bag. I'll have to watch that YouTube vid again. I'm pretty sure that guy was a pitcher for a major league baseball team - he tossed that rock straight up and over the branch on the first try! I think he actually did say that he had played some ball in his younger days...

Arden

[Arden]

I'm with you on the radio. If you do CW, get one of these --- http://www.lnrprecision.com/store/#!...per/p/45010523
All the cool SOTA kids are using them. ;-) You can't go much lighter. In fact, I think my paddles are heavier than the radio!
I just sold my 2-band model of this radio and I'll order one of the new 3-band models when they're back in stock.

I really wish I could afford that radio. I haven't sent a dit or dah for a while, but I still know the code. What sort of antenna would you carry up to the mountain? With only 2.5 watts, I would think it needs to be something tuned in order to get max signal radiation.

[Arden]

Arden, if you have time to go to REI in East Hanover over the weekend or Monday, you can try on the Osprey packs, and get a 30% discount as well. Your info says North Jersey, might be your best bet, if you have the time.

Any reason I need to go to East Hanover? Why not the REI in Paramus? I'm much closer to that one than East Hanover.

[Kenai]

Any reason I need to go to East Hanover? Why not the REI in Paramus? I'm much closer to that one than East Hanover.

No reason at all. It is just the store that I go to. I did not know that the Paramus store was closer for you. I hope that you find the best gear that works for you.
Happy Trails...

[Arden]

No reason at all. It is just the store that I go to. I did not know that the Paramus store was closer for you. I hope that you find the best gear that works for you.
Happy Trails...

I don't think REI has any of the packs I am looking at on sale. Nothing in the Outlet store.
Comparing REI to Campmor (also in Paramus NJ), prices are are for all practical purposes, identical for the same products.
I don't know whether REI offers the same replacement warranty for packs that it does for shoes - where they will replace any pair of shoes within one year if you are not happy with them - but that might be a reason to shop at REI instead of Campmor - also located in Paramus.
I guess in the end it is going to depend on the "feeling" I get when I start talking to the "pack-tek" in the store. If the guy doesn't seem to know his business, then I'll go elsewhere. From my experience, the people at Campmor do know their business. I can't say anything about REI, because I've never shopped there in person.

Interestingly, there was an EMS (Eastern Mountain Sports) store next door to the Campmor on SR 17 for a while, but it moved away. I was in that store only once, and was not the least bit impressed. There was a lot of wasted space in the store, unlike Campmor that is packed.