Trouble staying on the trail

[jefals]

I was hiking a dirt trail, pretty easy to follow for the first couple of miles. But then it opens up into a field of granite boulders. So, you walk across the boulders a ways and then come back onto the trail. And the farther you go, you see more and more of this; you'll be walking on the trail and then it opens up into more of these boulder areas, and then back to the trail. Some places, rocks have been positioned across the granite so as to point the way -- but not always.
I found myself having a lot of trouble staying on the trail. I didn't run into anybody else out there that seemed to be having any trouble. (Maybe they've all hiked up there before, or maybe they knew something I didn't?) I don't know. But I was getting more and more frustrated. And the 2nd day, for about an hour, I was lost, wandering around, not seeing anybody, and actually in panic mode for a while.
Next time I'm taking my GPS on this hike, but do y'all have similar experience or tips?

Thanks!

[Traveler]

You didn't say where the trail was, is it a known trail in a State or National park? Does the trail have a map at the parking area information kiosk? Did you have a printed map with you? Is it a woods road without blazes in a national or state forest you are following? Is it in a wilderness area where blazes may not be provided and navigation can be difficult? There are a lot of circumstances you could have been in so the answers will be varied.

It sounds like you were in an area where rock piles or carins are used to mark the trail instead of using painted, stake, or signs/symbols as blazes. Carins are easily followed much as other blazes are, you walk from one carin to the next. In some areas the carins are spaced a fair distance apart but the next should be visible from each one.

Having a map in these circumstances, even if its just a topographical map of the area you are in that doesn't include the trail, is a good idea. A compass is also a very good idea, with these two tools you can figure out where you are. However, you should learn how to use them in an orientation class (you can get books on this or take a class at an outfitter like REI who have them periodically).

A GPS is not a bad idea and there are a lot of choices of GPS and smartphone apps. However, much like a map and compass learning how to use it is critical to success. Many people use smartphone apps for hiking on fairly well established trails, but if you are on remote trails in poorly blazed or trod areas where finding a trail takes some considerable effort, a hand held GPS may be the better tool. Power consumption is not as much of an issue especially if you carry spare batteries and signal reception is far better on these than a smartphone will provide in places where there is heavy tree canopy overhead or in slot canyons or ravines.

Lastly, never be concerned about asking people you see who don't seem to be having any trouble if you are on the right trail, going the right way, how are they finding their way, is there a map, and other questions. Few, if any people would object to those questions and are happy to help. In worse case situations you can tag along with others or stay close enough to keep them in sight. Being lost is no fun and can easily trigger foggy thinking. Most everyone here, regardless of their level of experience, has asked passers by about trail conditions, directions, distances, and other questions to help re-orient them. I would be more concerned being with someone who was unsure of their position and direction who wouldn't ask passers by these questions out of pride than being with someone who did.

[gregpphoto]

Really open your eyes and scan for signs of a trail. A slightly more worn area of grass or dirt. Any logs cut flush, rocks piled up, etc etc. The northeast is so overgrown with vegetation that unless the trail is swallowed up, its nearly impossible to lose. In order to properly defecate 150 feet from the trail, I have to fight my way off the trail.

[Pedaling Fool]

I've seen a few cases like this, such as hiking along a well defined path, which came to a T-head at what looked like a fire road, but that required a 90 degree turn, but there was a field ahead that looked as if it was a path. I followed the "path" thru the field and before long I realized it was not the trail, so I backtracked and looked at the "fire road" and knew that was the trail, but the problem was, which way do I go? I could not find a blaze anywhere and because the surface looked like a fire road you couldn't see foot steps. I probably walked about a mile before I knew I was going the right way -- that's a long way when you're not sure if you're going the right way.

Maps and compasses are useless for these cases, because you don't always know exactly where you are, making a map useless and the trail doesn't always go north/south despite you being a NOBO/SOBO.

It's just part of hiking...


P.S. I always do carry map and compass, because if you really do get lost (not just a little confused) you can find the trail, it's tough, but you can. I've never been really lost, but I've done quite a bit of bush-whacking.

[CoolBobby]

Maps and compasses are useless for these cases, because you don't always know exactly where you are, making a map useless and the trail doesn't always go north/south despite you being a NOBO/SOBO.

I thought this is exactly what a map and compass were for...I have only ever relied on a GPS when I was in the service. I prefer a map and compass IMHO.

Hiking the Florida Trail ( my local trail I section hike) this happens alot with a lot of ATV trails, Horse trails, fire roads, and game trails all over the place. Even on day hikes, I bring a map and compass. If I know where I started I can find where I am.

Also I use caltopo.com to print all my maps for hikes anywhere in the country...

[Malto]

Maps are only useful in cases like this when you:
a) follow along as you go (preferable)
b) be able to reference your location with clear landmarks.

Additionally, being able to estimate your distance traveled via time traveled from a known location is also helpful.

Agree with itch the other Greg that usually there are signs of a trail even on rock, slight discoloration, smashed leaves, branches or logs moved. Hiking in 100% snow cover is useful in develop these skills.

[garlic08]

Depending on terrain and vegetation, there are skills hikers pick up to stay on trail. For instance, in clearings like you describe in some wooded areas, it's easy to scan across the clearing at the line of trees for cut branches, a sure sign of trail construction and maintenance. That trick is especially helpful in fresh snow.

I was on an off-trail hike being led by an experienced hiker, taking turns with him picking a route through rocks and cactus. There were several others on the trip who were completely unable to pick a route effectively and had no choice but to follow. They just didn't have the legs and experience yet. It's not something easily taught, it just takes time.

Maybe if you spend some time hiking off-trail routes, your senses will become heightened to the nuances?

[Pedaling Fool]

I thought this is exactly what a map and compass were for...I have only ever relied on a GPS when I was in the service. I prefer a map and compass IMHO.

Hiking the Florida Trail ( my local trail I section hike) this happens alot with a lot of ATV trails, Horse trails, fire roads, and game trails all over the place. Even on day hikes, I bring a map and compass. If I know where I started I can find where I am.

Also I use caltopo.com to print all my maps for hikes anywhere in the country...

When you are out in the woods with no clear landmark(s) that you can see on a map, as is the case on much of the AT, then a map will not tell you what direction to turn, because you won't be able to locate yourself on the map. Unless you meticulously track your progress, to include keeping time from a definable point to the next. No one does that. Furthermore, that's assuming the trail is perfectly depicted on the map with every little detail. It's not.

As I said before, I also carry a map and compass; I don't carry GPS. But they for when I'm completely lost or I'm bush-whacking.

unless you are lost and when I say lost, I mean LOST. I don't consider getting a little off trail as being lost. Lost is when you backtrack and can't find the trail and start going in circles, that's what a map and compass are good for, because you are not using it to pinpoint a location, rather just get back to a trail that is as large as the AT.

[Starchild]

As stated it is a skill that develops as you hike more, some pick it up faster then others, some never get beyond the basics. For me the trail sometimes appears/feels like (hard to describe) as a ribbon of light or energy, the AT is very energetic in this. It is a pathway of love for each other and someone open to that type of energy can feel it to some degree as I believe.

But beyond that, and the other advice above, one thing that someone told me as I started hiking and lose a trail is look to where I would put the trail, that is usually where it is. That advice gets one to look for those signs without knowing what you are looking for exactly. It was great advice and very often spot on.

[George]

not a dog person, but they certainly follow trail easier than humans

[MuddyWaters]

With experience you develop an instinct for where trails go based on visual cues.

[gregpphoto]

Agree with itch the other Greg that usually there are signs of a trail even on rock, slight discoloration, smashed leaves, branches or logs moved. Hiking in 100% snow cover is useful in develop these skills.

Those are some good ones, I like the smashed leaves bit. Yeah, its like tracking really, takes practice, but once developed, you cant not see the trail. Discoloration of bedrock is so obvious in some places from the millions of feet thats mind boggling others dont see it. Our brains are hard wired to find the outlier of a pattern.

[jefals]

You didn't say where the trail was, is it a known trail in a State or National park? Does the trail have a map at the parking area information kiosk? Did you have a printed map with you?

This was in the Sierras, near Lake Tahoe in an area called the Desolation Wilderness. The trail is called the Bayview Trail to Lake Velma. Actually, there are 3 lake Velmas -- Upper, Middle and Lower...I was going to Middle. The trees have hatchet cuts for blazes, and as I mentioned some of the boulder areas are marked, as you mentioned, with rocks --either cairns, or sometimes they are layed out in a row, pointing the way. But this is poorly marked. Not all of these areas are marked at all. Believe me, I don't mind asking for help -- I was asking almost everybody I saw, and did wind up following a lady out of the area. But she had been hiking up there for 40 years, so she knew that trail very well.

Guess I'll have to learn to use the map/compass. I was against them - thinking a map was just going to be cumbersome and if you're already lost, how are you going to look at that map and figure out where you are? But I'm sure you can, IF you know what you're doing.

[jefals]

Maps are only useful in cases like this when you:
a) follow along as you go (preferable)
b) be able to reference your location with clear landmarks.

.

That's what I was thinking about a map. I don't think, if you're already lost, a map is going to help -- unless it shows so much detail that you can spot the landmarks you are looking at around you on the map. (Of course I'm not experienced with using topo maps, so I know I could be wrong -- just something my brain is telling me! )

[nsherry61]

. . . I didn't run into anybody else out there that seemed to be having any trouble . . . Next time I'm taking my GPS on this hike, but do y'all have similar experience or tips?

Yeah, but did you look like you were having any trouble to all those other lost folks?

I always carry my smart phone as my camera and GPS. I rarely use the GPS, but, if I loose the trail, it can tell me pretty much exactly where I am on the map, which is helpful in finding the trail again. The GPS also provides some extra confidence if you are choosing to head off trail.

Finally, trails disappearing does happen. I find it especially in more lightly used areas where trails leave tree cover and go into large and/or meandering overgrown meadows (or rock gardens) where previous hikers follow multiple possible routes and are lost like the rest of us, so we might follow lots of false leads.

Solution: Remember why we're out there. Enjoy the adventure and the scenery, and then figure out how to get to a known destination with or without the trail that is or isn't there. Remember, most often, the defined trail is only one of the many ways to reach your destination.

P.S. I was on a very heavily traveled trail in the Adirondacks, in pouring down rain, a few months ago and the trail just flat ended. It disappeared completely. I followed a few false leads that rapidly went nowhere in all the wrong directions. Finally, with my GPS I figured out exactly where I should be. With the map, I figured out which direction the trail was supposed to take - straight across the middle of a very large, long, beaver pond that was not going to be easy to bush-whack around, nor easy to swim across. So, I headed back to the end of the trail I could find, got ready to wade and swim (heck, I was already soaked through anyway) about 50 yards across the pond on the assumption I would at least eventually find a trail on the other side. As I was about to step into the water, there was the trail . . . a submerged log, about 150' long, ending on the far shore where, sure enough, there was a blaze marking the trail. Wow.

[jefals]

Hiking the Florida Trail ( my local trail I section hike) this happens alot with a lot of ATV trails, Horse trails, fire roads, and game trails all over the place. Even on day hikes, I bring a map and compass. If I know where I started I can find where I am.

I did a few sections of the Florida Trail on a road trip I was on last fall. Really pretty out there! I never got lost there, but did enjoy some "meandering"...

[JohnHuth]

Here's one thing to keep in mind. Whenever you get to an ambiguity in where the trail might head, stop, and look backward. That way, you get a visual reference of where you're coming from, so if you have to back-track you'll recognize this.

I was just on a sketchy, lightly used trail. I knew the general direction it was heading, but I had to backtrack several times to where I knew it was for sure, and then look around for signs of it.

[DLP]

This was in the Sierras, near Lake Tahoe in an area called the Desolation Wilderness. The trail is called the Bayview Trail to Lake Velma.

I've hiked up there many, many times. I felt "lost" the first couple of times, too. When I read your first post, I immediately thought of the Bayview trail.

This is a really well maintained trail but you are often walking on granite. Look for rocks placed by the trail builders and maintainers. Many times they will be placed in a way to create a step or 2-3 steps. It is also VERY common to see large rocks place IN the trail to divert water from the trail and preventing the trail from becoming a stream. After a while, you will see a rock stuck in the trail and "know" that it was placed there, for a reason, by a human.

Second, look for footprints in the decomposed granite "sand". It is a very, very popular trail and there are usually footprints in the sand that collects on the trail near the bare granite or boulders.

When you step onto the trail-less granite... look ahead of you 20-50 feet and you will probably see the trail somewhere at the edge of the granite. Sometimes we get fixated on where we are putting our feet because it isn't easy trail walking. Don't stare at your feet. (Do as I say, not as I do.)

I don't think that a compass would help in this situation, on this trail. There are lots and lots of landmarks, so you are never really "lost". You may not be exactly ON the trail, but you aren't exactly lost. It might be frustrating to be wandering looking for the trail. It might be frustrating feeling like time is being wasted. But there is a big difference between being "lost" and not seeing or being on the trail.

I end up off the trail a LOT at popular lakes. There might be many, many "trails" to campsites or places to get water. I'm not "lost". I know that I'm on the North side of Richardson Lake. But I can't find the correct trail. Same with Lake Aloha. I had NO trouble finding the trail in the past. But I ended up wandering for an hour, looking for the trail this past summer. Again, I was frustrated and couldn't find the trail I wanted, but I could have pointed to where I was on a map, so I wasn't exactly lost.

Same with you... you could see Mt. Tallac and knew Lake Tahoe was north, behind you. You weren't "lost". You just weren't on the trail.

Best wishes and hang in there!

[gregpphoto]

But there is a big difference between being "lost" and not seeing or being on the trail.

Davey Crockett is reported to have once said "Ive never been lost, but there was a few days where I didnt know where I was."

[pyroman53]

On the southern part of the Long Trail last year, the recent leaf fall had obscured much of the trail. When I couldn’t tell where the trail went, I just looked for the rockiest section of the hillside and this was usually the trail (soil has long since washed down the hill on the trail), or the muddiest area of the flats! Worked like a charm!