sounds like a good choice, the integral designs look like a quality product.
Too bad the SilShelter seems no longer available. That was a wonderful piece of work I used for years, though a little heavy by today's standards at about a pound (including light-touch seam sealing). The Element 2 looks similar but it's even heavier, a lot; but probably very well made given ID's history.Originally Posted by skylark
Thanks everyone!
Canadian_Hiker
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"Pretty crazy storms" about says it all. And with crazy storms comes a common enough occurrence in the Southeast mountains where I backpack: HELL DELUGES. See below vid. If your tarp can handle this then go for it---
Add a bathtub ground sheet. These exist for about 6-9 oz.
By the way, you should do better in your site selection.
+1 No gear, including sheltering under a tarp, functions in and of itself! Skills and considerations are also involved like campsite location, knowledge of weather, gear appropriateness in context of skill sets/conditions, etc.
"Better site selection" is the mantra of ULers and tarpists to justify their tools but I can only conclude that these campers have never endured a Southeastern deluge gully-washer in the mountains of TN or NC. My video example above was in a never used campsite on a slanted ridge in dead leaves and fir tree needles, with the ridge falling off on both sides.
Point is, if it rains hard enough (and it will), wherever you are camped will get Sheeting ground water and/or Lake Effect. Sheeting ground water occurs at any level to half-level spot when enough rain falls fast enough and causes the ground to allow the water to move downhill, and every campsite has some amount of square footage that is downhill.
Lake Effect occurs when ground sheeting pools into a small puddle beneath your shelter. Ground sheeting produces a half inch or an inch of water no matter where you are camped. It just has to rain hard enough.
Yeah, tarpers are a bunch of wet wooses everytime they encounter torrential downpours. No way, can a tarp be used as an effectively comfortable to sleep under shelter in snow, heavy rain, on the east coast, etc etc etc.
Lots of that justification and reasoning of why one's gear/kits/backpacking approaches are "the" gear/kits/approaches to use going around.
I agree, with me it is also the challenge of learning a new skill. My way or views of backpacking are not perfect nor will they ever be. However, I sure will have fun getting soaked as I lean the in and outs of tarps!
Canadian_Hiker
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Well I guess one can just carry a 9 pound Hilleberg in the summer for 'just in case' scenarios. Which is great for camping as you can just plop the tent where ever you want. Right?
But for anyone that takes pride in learning lightweight backpacking skills, you are incorrect that any place you put a tent will end up floating during a hard rain. I just got back from Vancouver Island where we had 44mm of rain in 6 hours (this is literally the 'wetest' place in Canada). I used a tarp. I did not float away. And yes, there were puddles that accumulated but the smart one avoids depressions in the ground.
Can't speak of Vancouver Island, just the mountains of TN and NC.
At least on the AT you can take refuge in a shelter if need be. However, after reading the blogs of people with more than 10k miles under their belt, I've noticed most of them use a floorless tarp shelter. I envy and want to learn the ways.
This may be relevent. http://news.yahoo.com/reports-tents-...220557841.html
"It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss
Wow! My friend, it sounds like you have not tarped with the experienced! Having lived most of my life in a temperate rain forest, much, maybe even most of my backpacking and camping has included rain, including one night in the Olympics where it rained over seven inches in one night. And, when snow camping, a tent doesn't hold a chance against a tarp for plush comfort.
In a truly nasty storm, yes, I would rather be in my mountain tent than under a tarp. BUT, truly nasty storms are few and far between, and pretty much non-existent during 3-season backpacking in most of North America. AND, I really hate carrying the weight of my mountain tent when it is complete overkill 95% of the time.
My argument for rain is simple. A well pitched tarp is quite comfortable and reasonably dry in any but the most extreme blowing rain, which can be avoided by wise site selection. AND, a tarp gives the user a lot more room to move around and a lot nicer view of the storm when stuck under it for an extended amount of time in the rain, especially when cooking or inviting in friends to socialize.
As for snow: One of the best parts of snow camping is building palatial dwellings with nice benches and tables, and beds. All of which takes very little time, and if the weather is bad enough to stay under cover, requires a tarp or at least a tent without a floor. I guess, if you don't want to spend 20 minutes building your snow palace at night, and you don't want enough coverage that you can leave an end open to watch the snow outside while still being protected from the weather, and you don't want a large safe, covered cooking area, you could carry extra weight and bring a tent, but I don't see the up side.
I'm not lost. I'm exploring.
Wow, is certainly right should I actually believe what I said. I'm often so serious, it's assumed I'm always that way. This is why I can catch those like you with the occasional tongue in cheek comment.
LOL. I was pretty sure that was sarcasm!Wow, is certainly right should I actually believe what I said. I'm often so serious, it's assumed I'm always that way. This is why I can catch those like you with the occasional tongue in cheek comment.
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