Career "advice"...

[The Phoenix]

This isn't the first time I've looked for feedback on the job front on WB. I know there are a lot of opinions on here and some don't necessarily align with my way of thinking, but on the whole people on this forum are on similar wave-lengths to me. Freedom, nature, and physical fitness (to varying degrees) is important to us. I love my solitude in the great outdoors, and I also love the outdoor community... I feel like those passions are almost universally shared throughout this website.

So... I cut to the chase... Following my 2009 thru-hike, I decided to go to school out West, due to the mountains, adventures abounding in every direction, and a strong education didn't hurt either...

Since graduating in early 2013, I have put my education to next to no use... I fell into football and scouting/recruiting. I spent the past few years scouting at the highest levels of D1 football and from there transitioned to a journalism/scouting gig. My region was the Mountain/Pacific Island Region. My job would bring me to some of the most scenic areas of our great country... from those locations, I got paid to watch football, talk football, and write about football. The majority of guys my age dream about having such a job... All in all I really enjoyed it... BUT---

Despite having the Rocky Mountains all around me, Hawaii, Utah, Nevada, the Pacific Northwest, etc as my stomping ground... I literally got onto a hiking trail less than a handful of times per year. I was grinding away... working 80-110 hours a week. I slept in my office more often than not. 4-5 hours of sleep was considered a good night's sleep. It really kind of sucked. My passion for football was zapped and I realized that I couldn't churn out 20-30 years in that cutthroat business.

Back to the drawing boards... My education is solid, my grades are great, I studied a unique subject or two that make me competitive for some pretty cool jobs... but, I am hesitant... I don't want to end up with this seemingly perfect job and end up missing my "freedom", nature, hiking, etc... all the things that make me, me... keep me sane, and make me happy.

This past spring I applied to somewhere between 40-50 jobs... a wide variety of fields revolving around my educational background, and a few that were a bit of a stretch.

I was accepted to a job with the BLM doing some pretty cool backcountry stuff this summer, but it was only a temporary position and I had other things come up.

To end my rant with a clear question... From your experiences: Would a career in the BLM or NPS be satisfying for me, you, somebody that loves the great outdoors, freedom, etc?

Everyone in my life has their own opinions on what is best for me... and most think I would be "wasting my time, talent, brains, blah blah blah" if I was to be a park ranger. I strongly disagree with these folks, so I am looking for a different perspective from the WB community. I know being a ranger wouldn't be like a gigantic thru-hike, I know I'd have a lot of day to day tasks that aren't exactly mind blowing, and I know that I will never break any banks open will working for the Interior...

Just looking for opinions...

I'm heading out next week for a 6 week section hike, where I plan to make up my mind on my next chapter. I am looking at a few different grad programs, a few different jobs, or the idea of saying "screw it all" and adventuring until it's time to ride off into the sunset

Thanks in advanced for the soundboard, 2 pennies, and time.

[The Phoenix]

I should also pose the question... If not a ranger or somebody working in the Parks... what are some other outdoor alternatives in terms of jobs/careers?

[KDogg]

I spent several years working for the contractor to the U.S. Antarctic Program. Was a great gig and came with lots of travel and time off. Paid fairly well also. I worked a full time position but most of those jobs are contracted during the Austral Summer which leaves lots of time off during the summer here. Lockheed-Martin are the current contractors. You might check them out.

That job opened up many other possibilities and I ended up doing marine biology for the last 10 years in Hawaii. I have a chemistry degree so it wasn't too far fetched. I'm looking at a position in South America after my thru-hike attempt next year.

[MuddyWaters]

Its a tough choice. You are young and faced with options.

Reality is, if you want to have a family, things will get expensive though. Low paying NPS jobs may not always cut it. Almost universally, fun , low education requirement jobs dont pay well.

If you can be some type high skilled consultant, like environmental, you can spend a lot of time working in great places and be well paid. Also, some self employed people like writers, etc can live anywhere and work from home. Likewise, internet companies and websites can be run from almost anywhere.

Home, cars, medical care, good schools for kids, vacations for them, travel sports for serious athletes, cars for kids, college educations, all cost money. Lots of it. Incredible amts of it. No, really incredible amts of it.

Most people want to give their kids a good life and good education and start on theur own life. Make no mistake, the environment and friends kids have, have a tremendous impact on them, greater than parents. Unfortunately, learning environments in rural areas tend to not be the best.

You can have anything you want, but you cant have it all. You just have to choose whats most important to you, now, and in the future. Just food for thought.

I would say that for many, trying to find a high paying job 40 hr per week job close enough to areas with outdoor recreation is an acceptable compromise. Hence colorados front range population.

Lots of people actually do volunteer work on trails and parks on their vacation time as a way to spend time outdoors , working with others. Hard labor on vacation, just to be able to spend time out there.

[rocketsocks]

Do you really wanna work for a living? Make some big money where your at, then spend the rest of your life out of doors.

...and could ya get Dallas a couple first round running backs, a tight end to play the other side so poor Jason witten(my hero) dosen't have to carry the team again all year. and a kick ass return man on special teams. Thanks in advance.

Down and out in Dallas

[bigcranky]

Lots of choices.

Working as a park ranger is a tough way to make a living. Most jobs are seasonal, so you move around a lot, with no guarantee of another placement, crappy park housing, low pay, and few or no benefits as a seasonal. Budgets keep getting cut, visitation is up while staffing is down.

All that said, it can be a fun job for a few years, and the rangers I've known have greatly enjoyed aspects of the job. (My partner worked for the NPS in grad school.)

One other option is to take a job in your field, assuming it pays well, and live so far below your means that you can save 50-75% of your pay. Just avoid all the usual societal pressure -- live in a very small house, use a cheap prepaid phone, skip the cable bill, drive a ten year old car, eat mostly at home, and sock away the money with the plan to retire at 35 or so and spend the rest of your life hiking and enjoying the outdoors.


EDIT: ignore folks who say you "wasted" your education when choosing a career that you want. I have a degree in economics from a top university, and have made my living as a photojournalist for thirty years. Yeah, I "wasted" my degree, but I've enjoyed the heck out of my career. (But given what photogs get paid, I was in no position to choose Option 2 and retire early.)

[grumps]

+1 on what Cranky says. You will have to determine what your "passion" is. Spent 30 years in public service, not as a NPS Ranger but State law enforcement. Same issue, low pay. Go for what is in your heart. All the money from a job your really hate can't make up for it. The old adage "where there is a will, there is a way" applies here. I am sure you will find what works for you. Good luck.

[pauly_j]

You should work to live, not live to work.

If you're happy with what you're doing then do it. Yes there's an argument that if you weren't going to apply your specific education to anything, then maybe you shouldn't have embarked on it in the first place, but it's certainly better to 'waste' an education than waste a life.

That being said, there needs to be some balance. If you require certain things to be happy (eg. live an expensive lifestyle, have an expensive partner, want a big house, etc.), then there will obviously need to be some compromise on your job.

It sounds like you're spending your entire life working, which is fine, if you're the sort of person who can be happy doing that. I'm the other end of the spectrum; I'd rather be working a low-wage job with lots of time to do what I love. I don't live a particularly expensive lifestyle so have no need to have a 'great' job. I don't think I'd enjoy any job I could get really, so to me it's about having something with the least amount of responsibility and maximum flexibility with regards to my personal life.

[Smoky Spoon]

A degree is never wasted regardless what it is in. The college experience is a learning experience in and of itself so when people tell you that you are wasting your degree they might want to check into college. Getting up and going to class ontime, maintaining a good grade point average, maintaining a good attendance record, interacting with different people from different cultures other than yourself, exploring who you are and who you want to be, etc all these are so much more than a single subject of a degree.

You seem to have a lot of experience in traveling around and speaking with people, trying to recruit them etc. I know you mentioned the BLM and NPS so I will leave them alone since you already have them covered, but wondered if you considered applying to some outdoor magazines, outdoor suppliers, etc? Not as in working at REI as a sales person but as in through the bigger companies themselves where you could put on their equipment and test it out for them as well as show them to people you meet while doing so. Maybe you could also take some extra writing classes and go to those companies and be a contributor?

The idea of working a job for ten years and retiring is not a bad option either. As a retiree you could take on a smaller job like I have and still do as you love, being outdoors hiking. When I went to a financial advisor and told them I wanted to retire they told me the biggest thing I needed to do was increase my income and decrease my bill output. I did that in five years and retired. It was hard, but the cool thing on hiking is once you have the equipment it is pretty cheap, at least until you have to replace your equipment. BTW there are a lot of people out there who think they want to get into hiking and then quit after a few months who will sell their equipment pretty cheap, especially in yard sales, especially in the west.

I think you have some soul searching to do, what is more important to you? An income to retire early, an income to retire some day, hopefully when you are still young and can have a family, or doing what you love now and may even paying a price later for that?

My son is two years older than you and is asking himself similar questions. I will tell you what I told him, whatever you do, do it well and do what you love. A job you love that makes little money never gets as tiring as a job you hate that makes lots of money. And time, it is the one thing you never get back. Nevermind what your family and friends tell you that you should do, you are the one who not only has to make this decision but live with the consequences of it. Not anyone else but you. Good or bad, the consequences are yours and yours alone.

Whatever you decide I wish you the best and hope I helped. Happy trails.

[jefals]

I see some great comments here. I really agree with Muddy's comments and different folks may like others better. But I think it's one of those things, when it comes down to it - you're gonna have to figure out for yourself....I think...

When I was a young man, I didn't know what I wanted to do, so I was kinda stuck doing nothing. A day came and I had a decision to make; I had one of two places I could go - college or Vietnam. After careful deliberation that lasted about a millisecond, I decided on college. But I had no idea what I wanted to study. A man my Mom was dating at the time who didn't really know me from Adam said "Why don't you get into computers"? - so now, 49 years later, I'm a retired computer programmer.
Would I have enjoyed doing something else better? Maybe. But you can never really know, because you can only walk down one path at a time.
And I probably could have spent a lifetime hopping from one occupation to the next, looking for the perfect job - always starting over and never getting anywhere.

But for me, at some point I learned to look at it as something i had to do, in order to support the things I wanted to do. I just stuck with it, stayed active, bought a house, raised a family, and saved, saved, saved! And now I'm in the "payoff" years, and I can hike all the trails I want, whenever I want. WHAT A FEELING!!

Well, sorry for all the rambling, and all the personal reflection. But GOOD LUCK whatever you do!

[Smoky Spoon]

But for me, at some point I learned to look at it as something i had to do, in order to support the things I wanted to do. I just stuck with it, stayed active, bought a house, raised a family, and saved, saved, saved! And now I'm in the "payoff" years, and I can hike all the trails I want, whenever I want. WHAT A FEELING!!

Well, sorry for all the rambling, and all the personal reflection. But GOOD LUCK whatever you do![/QUOTE]


I too am reaping my rewards and love it! Kudos to you for retiring and living life to the fullest!
Happy trails!

[jefals]

I too am reaping my rewards and love it! Kudos to you for retiring and living life to the fullest!
Happy trails!

At 48? FANTASTIC!
(Hey, Albuquerque, huh? I was up there last year for part of the balloon fiesta. Great time! And did a great hike in the Sandias on something called the La Luz trail. I really enjoyed that hike. (Not to mention spending a beautiful day at the fiesta with 4 lovely young Texas college ladies!)

[PcolaDawg]

My daughter-in-law is in her third and final year at Western Carolina University getting a doctorate in physical therapy. She and my son (and their 3 trail dogs) spend a lot of their spare time hiking the Western Carolina mountains. They are trying to summit all 40 or so 6K+ peaks in North Carolina.

Now she will not likely end up in a profession where she goes backpacking as part of her job, but physical therapy is a nice background to have if you love stomping around the outdoors. And WCU may be the top university in the country for participating in outdoor adventures.

I'll be heading up there next week to do some backpacking with them and I am really looking forward to it.

[Smoky Spoon]

Yes at 48 and I love it! I hike in the Sandias almost every week. I know the La Luz and hike it every now and then. Very popular trail. And next week is balloon fiesta this year, very exciting time! Four huh? You must be a charmer!

At 48? FANTASTIC!
(Hey, Albuquerque, huh? I was up there last year for part of the balloon fiesta. Great time! And did a great hike in the Sandias on something called the La Luz trail. I really enjoyed that hike. (Not to mention spending a beautiful day at the fiesta with 4 lovely young Texas college ladies!)

[QHShowoman]

Some sound advice in this thread.

Note to Self: Time to seek out a financial advisor.

[MuddyWaters]

Now she will not likely end up in a profession where she goes backpacking as part of her job, but physical therapy is a nice background to have if you love stomping around the outdoors. And WCU may be the top university in the country for participating in outdoor adventures.

A friend of mine works as a contract physical therapist. Term of contract is set up front, and choose to only work 10 months per year, so can go play the other two. Downside, is moving town to town every few months. Like a rolling stone. One solution to the problem of employers not wanting to give vacation in the US.

the US gets the LEAST paid vacation in the WORLD! many countries are in the 30-35 day range. US average is 16.

[Vegan Packer]

Do what you love, and you will be happy, even if you don't make a lot of money. Sure, money has to be part of it, but don't do something for big bucks, thinking that you will hit it big and retire young. That happens, but it's not a given, and you could end up stuck in a career that makes you unhappy.

If you find that you are not as happy as you thought, try to move on as quickly as you can to the next thing. Again, don't look back and think of what might have been, had you moved on and found what you love.

[peakbagger]

From what I have been told unless you have a outdoor type degree, your career with the NPS is going to be low end labor work without a lot of chance for advancement. The other issue is that if you are white male non veteran non disabled, affirmative action is going to make it tough to move up through the ranks. NPS always needs seasonal bodies to work but transitioning to full time year round means quite a few years moving around to less than desirable jobs before you have enough seniority to get the jobs you want. Some folks especially if they have families try to stay in one spot but if they do, their advancement is going to be minimal.

[PcolaDawg]

A friend of mine works as a contract physical therapist. Term of contract is set up front, and choose to only work 10 months per year, so can go play the other two. Downside, is moving town to town every few months. Like a rolling stone. One solution to the problem of employers not wanting to give vacation in the US.

the US gets the LEAST paid vacation in the WORLD! many countries are in the 30-35 day range. US average is 16.

That's exactly what she's looking at right now, being a 'contract therapist'. They are also thinking of taking some time off after she gets her degree to do a thru-hike. My son, a Lt. in the Army Reserves, is only too happy to follow her around.

[Bronk]

A big part of those jobs is PR. Dealing with the public, educating them, etc. Do you think you would enjoy that?