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  1. #1

    Default Boots: Old School/New School - Why?

    I don't think I still have any of the hiking boots that I bought and used in the mid-1970's thru early 80's. I'm not sure what brands were popular, but I do remember them being heavy, leather, high-topped boots. I also remember carrying plenty of moleskin.

    Although I don't have any of those old boots, I do have some that I've had a long time that I think are somewhat similar. In the picture below, I show several different boots that I own. On the far left, are my Asolo TP 520 GV's. These are the boots that I use mostly nowadays. Next to them is a pair of Chippewa's that I've had for over 30 years. They are awesome boots. I think I bought them mainly for work, when I was working as a carpenter in New England in the 1980's. Next to them is a pair that I have had for well over 20 years. Can't find a name on them. They are lighter than the Chippewa's, but comfortable. Next to them is a pair of Merrill Moabs. I bought these when I got a shin splint about 3 years ago hiking, because my doctors told me to get "better footwear." As you can see, they haven't been used much, because I promptly manage to tear an Achilles tendon while hiking with them. That's when I got the Asolo's (and green Superfeet). In the front is a pair of NB 965's - I was wearing these when I got the shin splint.

    So I think the "old school" hiking boots were more like the Chippewa's than any of the others - heavy, leather, high-topped, with big heavy soles. I wore boots like that hiking from Springer north on the AT about 100 miles, through the Whites on the AZT, in the Colorado and Canadian Rockies, and all through Nantahala and Pisgah many times, among other places. When I started hiking again a few years ago, I found that boots had changed a lot (as has everything else). I love all the new, light gear. It helps my old self to be able to hike more. But I can't quite get my head around the new footwear. Everyone seems to wear "trail runners." You can't even find real high-topped hiking boots. The Asolo's were the closest thing I could find, and as you can see, they are much lower than the old boots there.

    I've read seemingly endless "debates", and lots of people seem to say that high-topped, firm, heavy boots do not really protect against injury. My experience seems to suggest otherwise. But I'm not a doctor (although I've seen several about these issues).

    My question is, why do you think we've moved away from high-topped hiking boots? And what is your opinion and your experience with various boots, including as it might relate to injuries or the avoidance thereof.

    Thanks.

    IMG_0517[1].jpg

  2. #2
    Registered User egilbe's Avatar
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    We've moved away from heavy, clunky boots, because they are heavy and clunky. Do you really need more explanation than that?

  3. #3
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    My experience is that I hike much better in trail runners with a typical thru hike load (25-30ish out of town with water for me). I had the experience of trying both on my thru hike and I absolutely did better in the trail runners. I went from Waynesboro VA to Rutland with a pair of Vasque Inhaler which are a heavier shoe, more of a low top boot than a trail runner. Wasn't really a choice, Rockfish Gap Outfitters doesn't sell trail runners and the old pair of runners were about 100 late for the trash by that point.

    When I switched back to a pair of trail runners in Rutland I noticed a couple things right away. I stubbed my toe about 80% less frequently, which I attribute to lifting my foot lower in the heavier shoes. I frequently caught myself walking with a very heavy stride in the boots towards the end of the day like they were dragging me down a lot more. Again, that stopped with the trail runners. I also find that I'm more careful with my steps in trail runners because there is much less padding so if I'm walking with a heavy stride or stepping on things I could step over I'll feel it right away. Having done both I doubt I'll ever use anything but trail runners again for 3 season AT hiking.


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  4. #4
    Garlic
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    I pretty much gave up backpacking about 20 years ago due serious knee pain with the old clunkers. My wife, more open-minded than me, started trying lighter shoes and I was inspired to do the same. That's when my long distance hiking career really took off. Hiking became painless and fun.

    I had to work for several months on adjusting to running shoes. I never thought I could simply replace my boots with shoes, hike on the same terrain, and everything would immediately get better. I had to train my lower legs to walk differently (probably developing different muscles and strengthening different sinews), and train my brain to look at the trail differently. The payback is immense.
    "Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning

  5. #5
    lemon b's Avatar
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    Footwear certainly has improved over the years. I was also a leather boot person for years. Found that sneakers and hiking did not do my toes any favors. That old experience has kept me away from trail runners. Today I still use ankle high boots usually Merrills, but do keep an open mind. They certainly are much lighter than old school leather and have about the same useful life. Also discovered early on that the sock is very important and always carry an extra pair.

  6. #6

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    I look at professional porters around the world.
    Many wear flip flops.
    Many wear nothing on their feet.
    Sherpas wear boots when they must work in deep snow. Usually double boots, some plastic, some leather.
    But, even the porters in Nepal (not above snowline) wear flip flops or sneakers.

    Who wears leather boots? The army? (do they still??? I don't know)

    But yes, hikers too have changed over to lighter weight on their feet.
    I think it was one of those things that everyone felt they had to do until Ray Jardine told us we didn't have to.
    We tried it, and we liked it.

    Up to you of course though.
    Don't let your fears stand in the way of your dreams

  7. #7

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    My experience confirms (in my mind) that heavy leather hiking boots don't protect ankles from rolling, i.e they don't protect this type of injury. Other type injuries are debatable; conditioning your ankles only real way to protect them.

    As for why we use to hike in heavy boots I think is because what else was there? When I was growing up, sneakers were very flimsy, so it was only natural to go with heavy leather boots. However, as hiking became more popular of course it would attract innovators. The rest is history...


    I use gaiters, because I have a high likely hood to kick stuff up in my shoes and I hate muddy socks; however, I've been accused of wearing these things because I look more like a hiker -- not true in the least. However, I do believe many wear hiking boots because of the look and I personally do like the look, so in that case my accusers may be correct

    Recently I've hiked very rugged trails in simple $30 running shoes and I felt fine, but didn't like the look. The truth really hurts sometimes...

  8. #8
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    The reason we have moved to trail runners instead of Scarpa boots or Rachle's is that our pack weight has dropped so much we do not need a heavy boot for support. If your back is 40 pounds those boots could still be needed.
    Everything is in Walking Distance

  9. #9
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    I never learned much about boots in school one way of the other.

    In my experience, the main problem with high topped boots accomplish is they lock up my ankles, making it impossible for them to properly flex and bend and preventing them from doing their job of helping me balance and as a result substantially increasing the force of impact as I walk. Additionally all of the impact that my ankles are designed to absorb/prevent is transferred straight into my knees.

    The main advantage to boots is that they keep my feet warm and dry.

    I hike in sneakers as long as the temperature is above freezing, but switch over to my Skarpa boots when winter hits.
    Last edited by Sarcasm the elf; 10-04-2015 at 09:31.
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  10. #10

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    I still use my Asolo 520s in winter condition when I may be using traction devices, snowshoes, or want to be sure I stay dry in below freezing conditions. However, I have mostly moved into low shoes in non-winter conditions due to their relative lighter weight and flexibility of motion. The differences between runners and shoes tends to be in construction, shoes tending to be a little more robust. However for a while now I have enjoyed using the lighter low shoes, especially on well groomed trails.

    I still miss the protection of a higher topped shoe though and recently got a pair of Salomon X-Ultra mids that are about an inch lower than my 520s, but fit, feel, and act like a low trail shoe. They are less than half the weight of the 520s and perform better than my trail shoes. I don't know how water resistant they are, I have only had them out in some showers (in heavy wet grass) and through occasional trail ponding without problems but time will tell on these. Since they behave more like low shoes than boots I would suggest trying a pair of these on to see how you like them if you are looking to change your footgear.

  11. #11

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    Thanks all for the very thoughtful replies. Some points I hadn't thought of before. Mostly, I hadn't thought of the notion that, if we can carry less, we need less in foot support. Makes sense. Even so, in the old days, I seem to recall 35 lbs was our target weight; my target now may be 10 lbs less than that, but I'm also a lot older.

    FWIW, I haven't been too concerned about twisting my ankle (although that was a major reason for wearing the old monsters years ago -- which, btw, I remembered were Fabiano's). It's mostly the tendon injuries that worry me now. My docs tell me that as I get older my tendons are weaker, and take longer to recover. Hm. I do realize the best approach is to work them, build them up, but that takes time and I don't want to re-injure myself doing it.

    Anyway, thanks, I will continue to wear the 520's for now. Considering a pair of Limmers and custom orthotics. Oh, and btw, I actually think the 520's are ugly as hell - the Merrill's "look" much cooler. (I'm laughing, but it's true.)

  12. #12
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    I've found that for me, what matters for not hurting an ankle is the heel cup, not the boot top. Most trail runners come with insoles that are worthless, so I toss the stock ones and put in green Superfeet. (Superfeet come in a bunch of colors. Green is what fits me. Someone with a lower arch might need blue. Someone whose foot rolls in the other direction might need copper. and so on.) But on rereading, I see you're using those already.

    Trail runners will not support traction gear. I've hiked with some people who think otherwise. They haven't convinced me, and it's my arse that's on the line. Come shoulder season, I switch to mid-height boots with over-the-calf gaiters. Then I switch again to Sorel pac boots for real winter. I envy Elf the fact that he found his Scarpa boots for cheap! (Of course, if I switched to hardshell boots, I'd have to relearn crampon technique. You step a different way with semi-flexible boots and strap-ons then you do with hardshells. It's just as secure, as long as you're not doing technical climbing. It's just different.)

    If your 520s don't give you problems, stick with them! Shoes that don't give you problems are hard to find. I don't care if they're "old school," those Italian boots were great. I'd still love to have the Pivetta boots that I used in college. I hiked in them for twenty years, but I can't replace them because they're not being made any more.

    Of course, take what I say with a grain of salt, since right now I'm nursing a bad heel that's probably fasciitis. I don't blame my shoes for that, though, since it flared up during a time that I wasn't hiking. I was forced off trail for six weeks with a knee injury, which happened in a fall, so I don't blame my boots for that one either.
    I always know where I am. I'm right here.

  13. #13
    Registered User vamelungeon's Avatar
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    Heavy inflexible footwear causes more injuries than it prevents. Light flexible footwear strengthens the feet and makes them less prone to injury, IMHO. Do societies where shoes aren't worn have all these foot and ankle problems?
    "You're a nearsighted, bitter old fool."

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    95% of the benefit of boots on established trails is proprioception.
    Most learn to do without it fine.

    Bushwacking offtrail is where boots are needed.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by vamelungeon View Post
    Heavy inflexible footwear causes more injuries than it prevents. Light flexible footwear strengthens the feet and makes them less prone to injury, IMHO. Do societies where shoes aren't worn have all these foot and ankle problems?
    Most societies where shoes aren't worn don't have quite the same life expectancy we do. A lot of the foot and ankle problems you hear about on this forum are from the old poops. (And, as I already said, I wear trail runners when the traction allows. The moment that there might be ice about, they go in the closet.)

    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    95% of the benefit of boots on established trails is proprioception.
    Most learn to do without it fine.

    Bushwacking offtrail is where boots are needed.
    Or winter hiking. Well, I guess that always involves at least some bushwhacking off trail, since trails in winter are ... approximate. But I've been on some pretty gnarly bushwhacks in summer in trail runners and gaiters.
    I always know where I am. I'm right here.

  16. #16
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    I hiked in leather boots for many years, back when that was the norm. Then in the early 2000s (age 50 or so) I began hiking in fabric boots, and by 2007 or so I was using running shoes or trail runners.

    Most recently I've moved back to ankle-high fabric boots, at least for situations where the trail may be wet or muddy. On my most recent AT trek I really appreciated the Vibram soles.

    For hiking in winter in the White Mountains, I wear Sorrels.

  17. #17
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    I hiked in leather boots for many years, back when that was the norm. Then in the early 2000s (age 50 or so) I began hiking in fabric boots, and by 2007 or so I was using running shoes or trail runners.

    Most recently I've moved back to ankle-high fabric boots, at least for situations where the trail may be wet or muddy. On my most recent AT trek I really appreciated the Vibram soles.

    For hiking in winter in the White Mountains, I wear Sorrels.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Kevin View Post
    Most societies where shoes aren't worn don't have quite the same life expectancy we do. A lot of the foot and ankle problems you hear about on this forum are from the old poops. (And, as I already said, I wear trail runners when the traction allows. The moment that there might be ice about, they go in the closet.)

    Also, I think in those kinds of cultures, people are living without footwear (or with very little) from an early age, and live very mobile lives. Their bodies are no doubt conditioned very differently than ours. As a once-upon-a-time anthropology major, I tend to take comparisons to such societies with a large grain of salt.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Kevin View Post

    If your 520s don't give you problems, stick with them! Shoes that don't give you problems are hard to find. I don't care if they're "old school," those Italian boots were great. I'd still love to have the Pivetta boots that I used in college. I hiked in them for twenty years, but I can't replace them because they're not being made any more.
    I have found a brand that fits me well and never gives me problems and are comfy right out of the box. Asolos! Problem is, their quality control is terrible and I need to find a suitable brand-replacement.

    No trail runners for me, I need some lug soles for grip and trail runners have terrible soles for wet or muddy trails. It's funny to see backpackers around me in trail runners slipping and sliding with long skid marks all over the trail. Remember the old lug boots of the 1970s?

    Plus, I need higher boots with more support to both carry my 80 lb packs and to do low water fords without immediately soaking my socks. A high Asolo Fugitive boot is what I use, goretex of course. 85% of all creek crossings in the Southeast mountains of TN, Georgia, NC and VA are easy fords between 1 to 6 inches deep and so whatever you are wearing will sink to that depth in order to do a ford or to rock hop.

    Try these little crossings in fabric boots or trail runners and POW you've just saturated your socks---not good on the first day of a 21 day winter trip. A good boot with a GTX liner is able to pull 6 inch deep wadings with no leaks, and of course you don't stand in the water for 20 minutes. Fabric boots soak in water like a canvas tennis shoe and so the high need for an above ankle GTX boot.

    But alas poor Asolo---


    A brand new pair of Asolo Fugitives---3 months old. This is their third backpacking trip. Oops, and a hard at-home repair but I did it with an awl and needle/thread. I wonder if Asolo boots are made in Romania by spider monkeys???

  20. #20
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    No trail runners for me, I need some lug soles for grip and trail runners have terrible soles for wet or muddy trails. It's funny to see backpackers around me in trail runners slipping and sliding with long skid marks all over the trail. Remember the old lug boots of the 1970s?

    This is one thing that is causing me aggrivation about trail runners at the moment. I had a great pair of Vasque Velocitiy runners that had some of the grippiest soles I've ever seen, and tough as a car tire too. It took me fuve years to finally destry them and they are now discontinued. I have been trying to find a really good replacement but can't find any sort of trail runner with an aggressive grippy tread. It's as if the manufacturers don't fully understand the conditions encountered when running on a trail.
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

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