Down Jackets

[gbolt]

With respect to the humidity levels on the east coast, would I be better off going with a synthetic jacket?

I feel that with today's DWR coatings and treated Down that the impact of the humidity is greatly limited. I would suggest shakedown hikes to hone in your hiking clothes. I have been below 20º using a Base Layer, Hiking Shirt, Cap 4 1/4 Zip, and either a Windshirt or Rain Jacket. I have not found the need to hike in a down jacket as of yet. Because the Jacket is for Camp and to hopefully aid taking my 20º Burrow down to colder night time temps (hoping to test it this January/February if I get the chance); I am worried most about the pack weight. A Synthetic is heavier and for the slight increase in cost... I chose the lighter down. So like Tundracamper is stating...you have to choose the system that works and makes sense for you. I want light.

[rocketsocks]

If it's cold enough for me to wear a down jacket/coat, then humidity doesn't factor in much, except on a micro level underneath jacket, which I negate buy venting periodically as need be.

[LIhikers]

A few years back I was able to get a Patagonia Down Sweater for a fraction of what they usually go for. It was the middle of the summer and I found it on the Patagonia web site under their web specials. For the price they were only offering 1 size in 1 color. It is my size and I've gotten used to the color. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you don't need it this winter, and can shop sales, you might get a quality piece at a great price.

[Ktaadn]

I've had a Marmot Zeus for a few years now. I really like it. It weighs 16oz in a size large. As has been suggested, I did a ton of research before I bought it. I had a spreadsheet with every puffy jacket I could find on it with weight, price, fill, etc. I also tried on as many different brands as I could find whenever I was in a store that had them. One tip that you might not think of initially is to check the length of the back and sleeves. Some brands will list this info on their website. As someone who is tall and has pretty long arms, this was important to me. You can find a wide range of lengths and widths across different brands.

[Grinch]

I have been looking at the Mountain Hardwear Ghost Whisperer. It's really expensive at $320 but very light at 8 oz with 800 fill insulation. Don't know how warm it is or how durable but it looks nice!

I found the ghost whisperer for 160. Put soft shell on top and you are gonna be ready cold temps. I will say my beard stubble picks the material on collar. Already talked to mh and they will see a piece on collar to stop. I guess that might add an ounce. Very light and comfy. I checked some pata jackets and north face but was really impressed with whisperer. Also works great as an infant sleeping bag! Little man stays snug as a bug in a rug!

[saltysack]

I found the ghost whisperer for 160. Put soft shell on top and you are gonna be ready cold temps. I will say my beard stubble picks the material on collar. Already talked to mh and they will see a piece on collar to stop. I guess that might add an ounce. Very light and comfy. I checked some pata jackets and north face but was really impressed with whisperer. Also works great as an infant sleeping bag! Little man stays snug as a bug in a rug!

Yea until his diaper leaks!!! That's why I bought my hiking buddy his own bag....$20 pack able down vest from Costco...sewed waist and arm holes shut...perfect bag for the mut or kid..add a home made fleece liner good below freezing...


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[pauly_j]

I'd be interested to know how vital a puffy is for a thru. Everyone seems to rave about them so I picked one up (a cheap Uniqlo one) but the couple of times I have been out with it I've not been blown away by the practicality. Yes, they're super light for the warmth but I'm taking my fleece regardless (for reasons I don't want to get into a debate about) and I found the warmth pretty comparable between the two. Is there any point in taking 2 insulating layers when they do pretty much the same thing? I figure if I'm going to get caught out with the cold in camp, it's only going to be for the first and last couple of weeks anyway and I can just get in my bag. I have a warm smartwool top and a midweight fleece and I've found them to be pretty warm in most shoulder season weather.

[Mags]

A nice compromise for three-season backpacking conditions, esp out East, is a 100 wt fleece as the go to layer and a down vest to supplement it. More than a few people carry a down vest to roughly when Trail Days happens (mid-May) then pick it up again around Glencliff, NH.

[MuddyWaters]

ls baselayer, light 100 wt fleece, UL light wt puffy, and rainshell is a pretty good combination to cover you down to freezing in all conditions.

Below freezing I substitute heavier baselayer, and heavier puffy.

lightwt fleece is breatheable and comfortable to hike in in cool wind. I prefer it to windshirt. I only bring windshirt if I dont bring fleece.

[Grinch]

The ghost whisperer also packs down to about 4"x8", a perfect pillow! A leaky diaper ain't nuthin' but a thang. This jacket is easy to care for, washes and dries well,(tennis balls). It's bout the lightest choice out there and I know we want to shave ounces!

[wormer]

I saw a black Marmont down jacket 800 fill yesterday at TJ Maxx for $99.

[colorado_rob]

ls baselayer, light 100 wt fleece, UL light wt puffy, and rainshell is a pretty good combination to cover you down to freezing in all conditions.

Below freezing I substitute heavier baselayer, and heavier puffy.

lightwt fleece is breatheable and comfortable to hike in in cool wind. I prefer it to windshirt. I only bring windshirt if I dont bring fleece.

Agree, all of this, exactly my upper body kit, except I always have a fleece (of varying weight) for a second layer.

[shakey_snake]

A nice compromise for three-season backpacking conditions, esp out East, is a 100 wt fleece as the go to layer and a down vest to supplement it.

Just wore this combo weekend in KY. Worked great.

I honestly probably would have been fine with just wind jacket instead of the fleece, as I carried my rain jacket for 30 miles and never once put it on.

[Casey & Gina]

The most important component of finding a down jacket is knowing the amount of ounces of actual down in the jacket, and the quality of the fill, i.e. 800 fill, 850 fill etc.

Also consider the number of sewn-through points, or if the jacket has baffles. We bought Patagonia down sweater jackets initially - I didn't really know anything and they seemed to get good reviews and were available at a local REI so we could try them out. They do have an excellent fit for our torso sizes! Later, I also bought a more minimal down jacket made by Borah Gear (a small 4-person company), and though it doesn't fit me as well and I have thus advertised it for sale, I have observed some notable differences that are worth considering when shopping for a down jacket.

Borah Gear normally sells their jacket with 2.3oz of 850+ down, whereas Patagonia uses 3.0oz of 800 down. Before buying the jacket, I wrote and asked about comparable warmth, and they assured me that it would be about the same. I had doubts, so I got the jacket overfilled with 3.0oz of down. Once it was in my possession, I tried it on and in wearing it in a cold house for the same amount of time as the Patagonia, it seems markedly warmer, despite having the same amount of down, although I must disclaim that I have not compared them in significantly cold temperatures. I did notice some obvious differences:

1. There are more than twice as many sewn-through seams on the Patagonia. If you think about it, each of these seams is a line of zero insulation as there is no down between the inner and outer layers of the jacket. The insulating effect is provided only by the puffy areas between the seams. So the more seams, the colder the jacket will be.

2. The Patagonia, when being taken out of a compressed state, resumes it's "poofy" state very quickly without any sagging. Again I believe this is due to the increased number of switched-through seams, since the internal volume area for the down is significantly reduced - the closer two seams are together, the less wide that the down can expand. That also means less insulation. The Borah Gear jacket, on the other hand, did not poof up right away, and lofted up more as I wore it. The amount of loft allowed by the less-frequent seams was significantly greater. I am not sure that I would like the jacket as much with only 2.3oz of down, but with 3.0oz it definitely lofts to fill a wider dimension than the Patagonia, which is probably a big part of why it insulates better.

3. The Borah Gear jacket is very minimal - no pockets, a half-length zipper, and a single adjustment for the waist draw string at one side. The Patagonia features 2 external zippered pockets, an internal zippered pocket that doubles as a stuff sack for the Jacket, a full-length zipper, and two adjustments for the waist draw string which can be pulled tighter from inside the pockets. These features add a significant amount of weight (it is almost double the Borah Gear), but also impact the insulation properties. The zipper is a weak point in the insulation - and a full-length zipper means more heat loss than a half-length. On the other hand a full-length zipper makes the jacket easier to don and remove. The zippers on the pockets are probably also a source of heat loss, and if you have the pockets open, this is obviously worse. To be fair, I am speculating here more than in the former two points, but I believe that a simpler design may be of benefit when considering cold-weather gear.

The Patagonia certainly looks fancier on a reseller display. When I as an uneducated customer walked into REI to look at winter jackets, I liked the way the increased seam count looked over some competition, thinking "more is better". I also liked the pockets thinking that would be useful for keeping my hands warm, before thinking it through and realizing that I'd want to be doing something with my hands most of the time, and opt for some warm gloves and/or mitts instead. The internal pocket for stuffing the jacket inside of itself seemed amazingly convenient, before I thought things through and realized that I will throw all my down clothing into a single compression sack anyways. The ability to tighten up the waste by pulling strings through the pockets wasn't something I particularly cared for, but again this is a clear tactic to appeal to the masses rather than practicality.

Don't get me wrong, I think Patagonia makes a great quality product too, and it is the one I am keeping (for now) due to better fit. The finishing is also a little more polished as a large industrial process enables. 800 and 850 down are pretty darn close so that's probably not a significant comparison (somebody with more familiarity with down can probably offer a better input on this). I just feel that the design of a jacket with less seams really allows the same amount of down to provide more warmth. If you have one already use it and figure out for yourself what it's limits are! If you don't have one yet, consider which if any features you really need, and consider looking for a product with less stitched-through seams. It just seems like a no-brainer in hindsight.

I've had good luck with Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends down garments. The WM Flight jacket is nice to take the edge off, and the FF Icefall parka is my go-to winter survival layer when temps hit 10F or 0F or -10F.

The Feathered Friends jacket Tipi is wearing takes things to a whole new level, as it has actual baffles sewn in (pieces of fabric between the inner and outer fabrics rather than them being stitched directly together), the same as good cold-weather sleeping bags. Depending on how cold of weather you expect to be out in, such a design may be worth consideration!

If I were to make my own perfect jacket (for me), it would have only a half-length zipper, a single waist drawcord cinch, and no pockets. It would use 800 fill power or better down, and use fewer seams. If I wanted maximum insulation, I'd opt for baffles rather than sewn-through seams. It would also fit me snugly, not being too lose on my slender torso. Another possibility in my mind is using two lighter jackets instead of one heavier one, sized appropriately such that the inner one fit snugly, and the outer one fit over that one without being so tight as to compromise it's loft. That would be heavier due to the additional layers of fabric, but may be a more versatile setup if you need to be prepared for more diverse conditions.

As it is, we are sticking with the Patagonia jackets for now as they fit great, but are considering working with Borah Gear to make us some custom jackets with a tighter-fitting torso, or with Feathered Friends to make a simplified version of one of their jackets (the Volant looks like a good starting point).