Going into the Unknown: What's your opinion?

[BenOnAdventures]

Benonadventures, we get it. You know how to use email. There is no need to post here every time you send an email. For that matter, a thank you for every reply to your posts is also not needed. It's a forum, people post- Get used to it. Now please stop bumping your threads as a way of getting more attention for your blog.

I'm not doing that at all. I'm not doing it to gain attention for my blog whatsoever, if you didn't realize I already posted on here about not putting the link to my blog on posts and stuff like that, switch to stop it with the negativity and have a great day! So it's bad to just give people common courtesy and a thank-you nowadays? I don't think so, so thank you for your input I definitely appreciate hearing from you!

[Another Kevin]

I'm still trying to figure out how bushwacking goes against the principles of LNT.

Certainly you can understand that at times, the footpath needs to be constrained. Eg. in alpine environments like the high ridges of the White Mountains.

Of course. But most places aren't the alpine ridges of the White Mountains. I bushwhack often. Always, I follow the preferences of the land manager.

For most New York State Forest Preserve lands below 4000 feet elevation, there are few restrictions on off-trail travel. For the peakbaggers among us, twenty of the Adirondack 46 and sixteen of the Catskill 35 have no maintained trails - and lots of people bag them all. The 46'ers by now all have herd paths that may or may not be visible. Three of the 'trailless' 35'ers have abundantly clear abandoned roads or trails. Some of the others still have the hiker swimming in Spruce Hell, with no path visible at all until you're almost at the summit.

If bagging these peaks is violating LNT, it's a violation to which NYSDEC is willing to turn a Nelsonian eye.

[Venchka]

Have any of Y'all ever hiked a rain soaked trail after a string of 6-8-10 horses have gone before you? All perfectly legal and permitted in most (probably all) Wilderness Areas. It ain't pretty. It ain't fun. The irony: The Management of said Wilderness Area preaches and requires pedestrian users to adhere to LNT practices.

Wayne

[ralph23]

Well played. You apologized for linking to your blog all the time but at the same time you have a link to your blog in your signature line. So you aren't really sorry for linking to your blog. In fact, the apology thread was just another way to get more hits on your blog. Kinda like asking people to help design your blog in hopes they visit your webpage to comment on the design.

[Tipi Walter]

Have any of Y'all ever hiked a rain soaked trail after a string of 6-8-10 horses have gone before you? All perfectly legal and permitted in most (probably all) Wilderness Areas. It ain't pretty. It ain't fun. The irony: The Management of said Wilderness Area preaches and requires pedestrian users to adhere to LNT practices.

Wayne

Can't stand the horses. But not all wilderness areas allow them, and then only on certain trails. No horses are allowed in the Joyce Kilmer Slickrock wilderness. None allowed in the Big Frog except for a perimeter trail. None allowed in the Bald River wilderness. None allowed in the Snowbirds. But Mt Rogers is ruined by horses, especially the Lewis Fork and Wilson Creek wilderness areas. Whenever I find "illegal" horseback riders, i.e. Saddle Potatoes, I take their pictures and post them on the interweb. Verboten!! Not allowed!

I don't even think this thread is about horses in the woods but you got me distracted. Saddle potatoes could care less about the damage they do to trails. Thousand pounds animals on steel hooves. Doesn't make sense in the Southeast. They do not belong in the backcountry. Hasn't been indigenous horses in North America for 10,000 years. They are outside the ecosystem.

[colorado_rob]

What on EARTH is going on here with all the negativity and such? Shame on you all. Pathetic. Ben asked for some legitimate ideas and all some of you can do is bad-mouth him and go on and on and on and on about LNT principles. Again, PATHETIC. Get a life.

[RangerZ]

Of course. But most places aren't the alpine ridges of the White Mountains. I bushwhack often. Always, I follow the preferences of the land manager.

For most New York State Forest Preserve lands below 4000 feet elevation, there are few restrictions on off-trail travel. For the peakbaggers among us, twenty of the Adirondack 46 and sixteen of the Catskill 35 have no maintained trails - and lots of people bag them all. The 46'ers by now all have herd paths that may or may not be visible. Three of the 'trailless' 35'ers have abundantly clear abandoned roads or trails. Some of the others still have the hiker swimming in Spruce Hell, with no path visible at all until you're almost at the summit.

If bagging these peaks is violating LNT, it's a violation to which NYSDEC is willing to turn a Nelsonian eye.

You, sir, are a scholar, a clueless weekender but a scholar, nevertheless.

[Another Kevin]

Can't stand the horses. But not all wilderness areas allow them, and then only on certain trails. No horses are allowed in the Joyce Kilmer Slickrock wilderness. None allowed in the Big Frog except for a perimeter trail. None allowed in the Bald River wilderness. None allowed in the Snowbirds. But Mt Rogers is ruined by horses, especially the Lewis Fork and Wilson Creek wilderness areas. Whenever I find "illegal" horseback riders, i.e. Saddle Potatoes, I take their pictures and post them on the interweb. Verboten!! Not allowed!

I'm not quite as vehement about horses, but I was indeed irate when I saw unquestionable evidence that a rider had led a horse directly to a spring. When fifty feet back there was a sign saying, "no horses past this point," and a hitching post and bucket provided for the purpose. It's not that the horse was drinking from the spring. It's what was going on at the other end of the horse, a few feet from my drinking water.

You can be sure that that bottle of water got treated.

I had no cause to complain about what horses had done to the trail othewise. That's my own fault for hiking on a bridle path.

I also don't get nearly as annoyed with Ben as some of the folks here. He falls in the category of "kids with big ideas and equally big mouths." He'll either get some real experience, or he won't. Either way it's no skin off my nose. I'm perfectly happy to tell him, "blog when you have something to say, and I'll read it when you do," but that advice is worth every penny you paid for it.

[BenOnAdventures]

What on EARTH is going on here with all the negativity and such? Shame on you all. Pathetic. Ben asked for some legitimate ideas and all some of you can do is bad-mouth him and go on and on and on and on about LNT principles. Again, PATHETIC. Get a life.

Thank you I really appreciate it. Can I message you?

[squeezebox]

If you have to ask someone else if you have the experience and knowledge to do something in particular, the answer is usually no.

[Dogwood]

Ben, I got your emails. But again you revealed nothing substantial about your plans. Hence, I find it difficult to impossible to suggest targeted answers to your questions in your original post. That's not a negative comment or me being negative! It's just what I observe and how I'm having difficulty with your questions. If you want to do something no one has ever done before safely enjoy. Tell us about it upon your completion of the route.

[Venchka]

OK, my experience with horses was in the Rockies where horses are still used frequently. My point was to...heck, I probably didn't have a point.
Anyway...
Ben, all the best to you.

Wayne

[rafe]

If you have to ask someone else if you have the experience and knowledge to do something in particular, the answer is usually no.

It's not even clear what Ben is asking in his opening post. Is he asking us to suggest a route or area to explore? Is he asking whether we think it would be cool to hike into "the unknown"? Or is he asking for advice on how to do so? Mostly, Ben seems to be thinking out loud.

A point I made in response is: "the unknown" could be almost anywhere. Take fifty steps directly away from a well-established trail and you may well be standing where no human has stood before, or at least not in the last 100 years. The location doesn't have to be the wild west. It could be conservation land in central Massachusetts.

I've often thought, in such places: if not for my map, and the blazes on the trees, I would be seriously lost in these woods. Step away from the trail and suddently you're in "the forest primeval."

[kayak karl]

stay tuned, I can't wait to hear your input on my next post. I'll be looking for it.

so you started a thread yesterday and will tell us why you started it tomorrow! can't wait

[Water Rat]

Hey adventurers, i was just thinking, sure to hike the AT would be awesome but what's your opinion on doing a hike no one has ever done before? Where would you begin? Any tips or suggestions for navigation, resupply, etc? Anything is useful. I have an idea of a possible route but what's your opinions on doing something (from what I've researched) that has never been done before? Thanks again and I hope to hear from you soon! Any links or anything will be greatly appreciated!

If there is a trail/route/hike/road walk that you want to do, you should do your research and go for it. The only opinion that matters is yours - You are the one who will be doing it. Asking for the opinions of others will not help you to complete your goal - Especially if we do not know what you are trying to do. I don't mean that in a negative way, it's just that being really vague about wanting to do something nobody has ever done before is not likely to get you the answers you seek.

Personally I don't care if 2 trillion people have done something before. If it is new to me, then it is an adventure I have never taken. Even taking the same route 2x, I learn something new each time. The definition of "adventure" is different from person to person.

You ask the general question of where to begin - Research. Gain knowledge of the area(s) you are planning to go. Know the rules of the area... Take a Wilderness First Responder course if you are planning on spending time in the backcountry (especially in areas where others are not likely to travel), learn navigation (map & compass, how to read topos, gps skills, even learning more about the night sky where you are going, etc) above and beyond what you are likely to need for your travels. Learn about what you are getting yourself into. Knowledge weighs nothing to carry and can come in handy as a backup if you are relying on any fancy gadgets to get you where you are going. I would also begin by clearly stating where I was going in order to generate specific answers. Besides - You might find out that trip has in fact already been done. That could save you a lot of time and effort if your end goal is to do something that has not been done. Just because you have researched something and it doesn't appear to have been done, does not in fact mean it hasn't been done. There are many who have gone before and have not publicized their trips on the internet. Again, not meant as negativity. There just was a lot that occurred prior to the Internet and there are many quiet souls out there who have not written books on their trips.

We would be much better able to give you ideas specific as to what navigation skills you would need and resupply options you would have if we knew the "where." That does not mean you need to share the "what" you are planning to do...it just gives a better idea of resupply options for that area/those areas. There is a huge difference in trying to resupply on established trails vs backcountry vs cities/towns you would be passing through.

Saying that you are working on navigational skills doesn't really help us to help you with that answer either... Does this mean map & compass, programming your gps unit...? Different terrains and areas require different skill levels. If you don't want to share that is certainly within your rights, but it also means we are not able to really give specific answers. It also means you will get responses that are all over the board and questions asked of your skill levels in different areas.

[BenOnAdventures]

Great answer!! Okay people. The long adventure I was thinking of is hiking the AT, C2C Route, PCT and southern trails connecting the coast. A huge loop around the country. So what do you all say? Feel free to comment anything helpful or relevant.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Great answer!! Okay people. The long adventure I was thinking of is hiking the AT, C2C Route, PCT and southern trails connecting the coast. A huge loop around the country. So what do you all say? Feel free to comment anything helpful or relevant.

An unknown guy named Sam Gardner with no LD hiking resume proposed and tried something similar, called the the All In Trek a few years ago. He was going to hike the NCT (North Country Trail), AT, CDT, and then PCT back to back - over 10,000 miles - in one calendar year if possible. He promoted the heck out of it, and himself, with equipment sponsorships, planned post-hike inspirational speaking tours, etc. It didn't end well. Hell, it didn't even start well - he got lost getting to the trailhead. Never made it out of the first state (winter in upstate NY is tough). Enough said.

[rafe]

Great answer!! Okay people. The long adventure I was thinking of is hiking the AT, C2C Route, PCT and southern trails connecting the coast. A huge loop around the country. So what do you all say? Feel free to comment anything helpful or relevant.

Great. Do I dare ask how you're going to fund that? Or what long trails you've already done, before you go stringing them all together?

I do appreciate your enthusiasm and imagination, but I question your grip on reality.

[BenOnAdventures]

Lol I love the comedy I get from everyone

[BenOnAdventures]

Life is great and reality is clear.