base weight and clothing

[Rmcpeak]

If I include my fleece, gloves, hat, and jacket in my base weight I'm over 10 lbs. If I don't, I'm under. Does base weight include cold weather wearables that may come on/off throughout the day?


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[soumodeler]

Base weight includes everything not food, water, fuel, and the clothes that you wear all day long (ex tshirt and shorts). Base weight includes the weight of water and fuel storage containers as well.

So you are over 10 lbs base weight.

[MuddyWaters]

Depends. In cold weather if you are wearing them mostly all day every day, then no. If you carry them, yes. Its a teflection.of your packed gear wt.

Often base wt for a given trip is defined by what you wear /carry at the trailhead.

[Another Kevin]

It's not a competition. If you can carry it and go to the places you want to go, your base weight is fine. If you can't carry it and still make the miles/do the climbs/keep your balance/etc., then it's too heavy.

[garlic08]

One of the moves that got me under 10 pounds was leaving the fleece at home. It's heavy for what it does. That was, psychologically, one of the harder moves I made in that journey, but I tried it anyway and I'm very happy with what I learned. The fleece now stays at home and once in a while comes out on a winter day trip.

Regarding clothing, one tip I saw here was you should be able to wear all the clothing you bring at once, as part of a coordinated layering system.

[squeezebox]

Since there is no agreement on what should and should not be included in base wt.. Base wt seems to be a fairly meaningless term.
How about skin out?

[Heliotrope]

I don't know. Sounds like you need to get rid of some stuff to get under the 10lbs. Just teasing of course. I agree with Another Kevin. How well can you hike with your gear.?Though I appreciate streamlining your gear to hike easier just not to the point of being unprepared for the conditions. I recently switched to the Dynamo wind pants by Montbell to replace my heavier hiking pants because they ended up in my pack most of the time.

To get under 10 and keep your clothing selection you can try stuffing your pockets with headlamp, knife, compass, lighter, stove, spork, maps, etc. Couldn't resist.


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[Dogwood]

Yes........

[Rmcpeak]

Yeah, it's silly but it's fun too. I'm a big guy and fairly fit. 20lb base weight is not a problem for me, but 10 lbs feels weightless once I get moving. I think skin-out is a better measure. I may go with the ul down jacket instead of the fleece this weekend, or a Capilene 3 long sleeve shirt. I'm really only concerned about breaking camp in the mornings around 30 degrees. I'll be in a T-shirt by 8 am probably. All clothing can be worn at once and probably will in the mornings. Running shorts, no pants, no underwear, toe socks and one pair of darn toughs over them, etc. Forecast is zero rain this weekend so I don't have to fret wet. I do carry a light rain jacket but this weekend it's more for wind and top layer than wet. Will leave the hat out and use a buff to cover ears/head if needed. This is a fiancee/dog hike so I have a heavier shelter (we split it up of course) and heavier pads and bags. I'm also taking the tent ground sheet which is 9 oz but the tent is brand new and the dog, etc.

Anyway, I was just looking for consensus on if clothing is included on base weight and it that there is none which is cool. HYOH, right. I think skin-out divided by number of miles or days might be an interesting measure. Might throw that in the spreadsheet for fun.

Thanks for the input, hike on!

[MuddyWaters]

Believe it or not, 1 or 2 lbs really doesnt make a difference, except on a spreadsheet.

[tflaris]

Believe it or not, 1 or 2 lbs really doesnt make a difference, except on a spreadsheet.

Don't tell my Wife that. She bought a gram scale! And now most of our arguments are about pack weight!




"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed that is the only thing that ever has."
- Margaret Mead, Anthropologist

[garlic08]

As I've heard the term "base weight" applied, it's been handy really for a couple of specific trails--mainly the PCT, secondarily the CDT. If you mention base weight on the AT, you get all sorts of confusion. Maybe that's why there's no agreement on an AT-based forum. Hikers on shorter state trails, like the CT, in general just don't seem to care.

[Rmcpeak]

I enjoy the idea that I can hike distances and be outdoors for extended periods of time with only the bare essentials. Base weight < 10 lbs is a nice bar to try to clear but I won't compromise common sense and safety. Trying to meet a base weight has helped me tune my systems for simplicity, reliability, and effectiveness. I'm not long carrying stuff that I doesn't get used on the trail, so that's good.

[matjbrown]

When I am weighing gear to determine where I can reduce weight in my pack I don't concern myself with clothes. Assuming I am already planning to take what's needed for the forecasted weather and packing the lightest options available to me.

So if I need gloves I pack the right gloves. Same goes for a hat and other clothing including rain gear.

When it comes to clothes I start by using common sense and won't trade saving a few ounces if it means lack of comfort.


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[Coffee]

Believe it or not, I've even read and heard heated debates over whether the metal part of a fuel canister should be allocated to base weight and the contents to consumables. At the end of the day, total pack weight is really what matters. If an article of clothing tends to sit in the pack all day (such as for a dedicated sleep layer), then it should be allocated to base weight. If it is typically worn all day, it isn't part of base weight. So for example on my upcoming fall AT section hike, my liner gloves are probably best characterized as part of my base weight as I only anticipate wearing them in camp and early in the morning. But for my Foothills Trail hike last February, the liner gloves were almost always on, and so not part of base weight.

[Dochartaigh]

One other thing to think about is how most (I should say 'sufficient' IMO) "ultralight" baseweights seem to be centered around late spring/summer/early fall use (i.e. not for when it's going to drop to around and below freezing when you would need lots of heavy and bulky insulation). My own personal "ultralight" setup will only get me down to maybe 40º.

So as soon as the seasons change and you have to add all this other gear to keep warm, I'd say that an extremely high percentage of people will technically become no longer ultralight...so I really wouldn't worry about it like many other people have said in this topic.

(and of course I'm not talking about people who sleep under a 3 oz. 2'x6' tarp even in winter...they may be able to still get under 10 pounds in the dead of winter...just not to the level most of us would consider to be comfortable).

[Rmcpeak]

I appreciate the sane and thoughtful commentary on this. Bottom line: the lighter my pack, the more I enjoy hiking, unless I'm freezing to death!

[colorado_rob]

It's kinda nice to know your baseweight w.r.t. what's generally accepted as "lightweight" or "ultralight", just so you know if you're in the general ballpark of such definitions. But I don't sweat much about being super-accurate in comparisons with others and formal definitions. I mostly just compare my current hike's "baseweight" (by my definition) with previous hikes.

So I ignore such refinements as the empty canister weight and water bottle weight (about 8 oz total), so when I throw my pack together for the next trip I exclude my base clothing, shoes, fuel (incl. canister), food, water (incl. bottles) and weigh my otherwise packed-pack and see how I'm doing compared to myself. I do include such "consumables" as sunscreen, bug repellant and TP in my base weight. Too much trouble to refine too much more than that. (Probably close to cancelling out the empty canister and water bottles!). I make a note on a little piece of paper taped to one of my gear cabinet inside doors, including time of year and destination. Then I add food, water, canister and hit the road! Very easy.

[peterboysen]

I'd count anything I don't want to wear while moving as part of the baseweight, but as others mentioned it's really just a reference point. I'm 6'2" and will always have a disadvantage in baseweight to someone who is 5'6". But, since we're not really competing, just trying to get packs to a comfortable point for carrying is all that's really important.

[Coffee]

Some people do compete on base weights. But it is mostly online I think. I actually cannot recall an in-person discussion with another hiker on trail regarding base weights or even pack weights other than someone saying "Damn, my pack is heavy after that last resupply" or "My pack is feeling great with hardly any food", etc...