Ultralighters, where did you eventually ADD weight back to your pack?

[Wolf - 23000]

+1 All this.

I think it's a disservice to Newbs beginning to consider going to lighter wt kits, and even some who have been in the UL deep end of the pool for some time who haven't become aware, when a generalized wt range is categorized to be conventional, moderate, light, UL, SUL, XUL, extreme mega nano light, etc. I think it points to humans having a need to ANALize, calculate, categorize, inject superlatives, and rule with more than wee bit of pride in a lowest wt pissing contest. I find much of this boring and a cliche. We then, and I've done it too many times, start saying things like UL for 3 season. I ask myself, "what the heck does 3 season mean?", because 3 season in Cascades NP does not always equal 3 season in Shenandoah NP on the AT which certainly does not equal 3 season in Hawaii Volcanoes NP at the summit of Mauna Loa or 3 season off trail crossing a glacier and off trail in Wrangell-St Elias NP in Alaska when I'm out with a Tipi Walter sized 20 day supply or Arches NP in Utah off trail. There are so many variations it starts becoming foggy and messy. The more I know the more detail I include the more I realize that vastness of that which I will never know or will have the details for.

"Don't worry so much or make things so complicated so often, HIKE ON" I tell myself.

jus my ramblings.

Dogwood,

I think we are getting off topic of the original topic of this thread but your point I’ve been saying the same things for years. When asked, I always give a range, my base weight is 1 to 3 pounds depending on what I’m doing, where I’m hiking, when and how. These days everyone claims to be an expert and have hiked thousands of miles. A true experience hiker is going to know this along with many other things. If someone who is still asking questions such as, “What do you carry?” you have to wonder how much experience they really have. Someone who has hiked a couple thousands of miles should know this.

To address your thread on the definitions of UL. Personal, I never care for because it put the larger guys such as me at a disadvantage. If I was a smaller guy, I could carry less. Back in 1989 and throughout the 1990s, many hikers referred to me as being UL. I was able to travel under the 5-lb base weight throughout my travels of multiple thru-hikes of the AT, PCT, LT and Colorado Trail. Over time and as gear has gotten lighter, the definition of what many who refer to themselves as UL has actually gotten heavier instead of lower. Where someone got the idea that hiking with a 10-pound base weight was UL escapes me. The purpose of travel UL is not even noticing you have a backpack on your back. If I’m carrying a 10 base-weight, plus food/water I’m going to notice it. Think about it this way. If over the holidays you add 10 pounds on your waist line. Then walk around like that. Would you notice it? Of course you would. If you added 1 – 3 pounds would you notice it? Most likely no. It would be the same as getting up after having a big meal for dinner. This is why I never consider 10 pounds as UL.

Wolf

[Miner]

I haven't reached the point where I added stuff back in and I doubt I ever will short of a health issue. As an engineer, my journey to UL, was one of constant ongoing experimentation. I made a minor change, tried it, evaluated my experience, repeated with another minor change. If I wasn't sure a change worked for me, I wouldn't have made it part of my normal load.

My goal is still to try and lighten up more each year, even if its just fractions of an ounce because it all adds up eventually. My normal baseweight is around 9lbs for 3 season backpacking (20F+ which may include rain or light snow) which includes 1.5 to 2lbs of camera gear which I've always refused to give up; but even the camera gets evaluated for performance and weight when its time to upgrade.

I tend to use the same gear list even in summer since the higher elevation mountains I favor can snow year round. Sure I could go lighter on some trips, but I tend to leave my gear packed so I can go at a moments notice rather than repack for the expected conditions. I could do a true SUL short trip, but feel that I'd only be doing so to say I've done it as I'm not willing to make the necessary gear changes permanent. As I'm unwilling to make a change that I know I'll eventually undo, which seems to be what some of you are doing.

[scatman]

After hiking the AT I did the LT and went ultralight. Like you I realized adding a little weight wasn't going to hurt my experience. I added the weight with a heavier pack. I switched from the Golite Breeze I had to a ULA Pack. The ULA carried the weight better. The other area was camp shoes. I've gone back and fourth on carrying these or not.
More recently on the CDT it was adding power. I switched from a solar panel to an external Anker battery pack. The Anker was 2 ounces heavier but I knew I had power. I didn't have that sense of security from the solar panel. You can checkout my AT and PCT packs here, or my CDT gear here.

Scatman
www.adventuresofscatman.com

[Connie]

Miner, I hike in big mountains, and so, my everyday 20 F backpack does not change.

However, I enjoy using different items that are a part of the pleasure of hiking and camping.

I enjoy using a number of different small stoves and lightweight cookware, if you include differing provisions for FBC style food preparation.

Once in awhile, I like to do fine art landscape photography. For that, I have a tiny digital camera with a long range optical zoom.

I do not forego these pleasures of getting outdoors all I can.

Nevertheless, my packweight was 20 lbs. overall when I started mountaineering in the early 1960's and remains about 20 lbs. now that more lightweight gear is available because I enjoy the experience more unencumbered by too much gear.

Over the years, I have an odd assortment of gear I could sell off. Maybe eBay?

But add it back, "no way".

I think I am keeping the pulk for winter camp. It is not carried.

[fastfoxengineering]

Some more good input from everyone. Dogwood and Wolf, I agree with pretty much everything you mentioned. I should have been more clear. I posted this thread in the ultralighters forums because I feel this is where most of your experienced lightweight hikers here reside. Sorry Tipi, but you no belong here.

Rather than use the word ultralight as it's already derailed this discussion, let's just say those with some experience. All of us here understand that different gear is required for different hikes. However I believe that some things actually do NEVER change in your pack.

For instance, IF you bring a spoon. And at first you got one of those spoons the size of your pinky and realized that you only eat Mountain House which rendered that little spoon practically useless and then you upgraded to a long handled spoon to eat your MH meals comfortable....This is the information I'm trying to gather here. First hand of experiences of gear you chose and the lighter option did not work out for you. The responses should be pretty specific.

I guess this really isn't an ultralight topic at all. However, I knew that the people here who have their packs dialed in and analyze and test gear would give the best insight. Because in this subforum, one typically thinks twice about adding weight back to their pack, and valuable information of why you did so could help others.

In the end, this is simpler than it sounds. You've been using a piece of equipment for some time and whereever/whenever you hike you realized that there's a better alternative out there. However, that alternative is heavier than the equipment it's replacing. We want to to know why you chose the heavier alternative.

Keep em coming

[Heliotrope]

Some more good input from everyone. Dogwood and Wolf, I agree with pretty much everything you mentioned. I should have been more clear. I posted this thread in the ultralighters forums because I feel this is where most of your experienced lightweight hikers here reside. Sorry Tipi, but you no belong here.

Rather than use the word ultralight as it's already derailed this discussion, let's just say those with some experience. All of us here understand that different gear is required for different hikes. However I believe that some things actually do NEVER change in your pack.

For instance, IF you bring a spoon. And at first you got one of those spoons the size of your pinky and realized that you only eat Mountain House which rendered that little spoon practically useless and then you upgraded to a long handled spoon to eat your MH meals comfortable....This is the information I'm trying to gather here. First hand of experiences of gear you chose and the lighter option did not work out for you. The responses should be pretty specific.

I guess this really isn't an ultralight topic at all. However, I knew that the people here who have their packs dialed in and analyze and test gear would give the best insight. Because in this subforum, one typically thinks twice about adding weight back to their pack, and valuable information of why you did so could help others.

In the end, this is simpler than it sounds. You've been using a piece of equipment for some time and whereever/whenever you hike you realized that there's a better alternative out there. However, that alternative is heavier than the equipment it's replacing. We want to to know why you chose the heavier alternative.

Keep em coming

This is a great post. I would have to disagree that it is not an ultralight topic. IMHO anyone who methodically evaluates their gear with regard to weight, volume and functionality is an ultralight hiker regardless of base weight. I would have definitely chosen the Sawyer mini for example over the regular had it been available. Observing other hikers struggle with the mini I decided to stick with the heavier filter. Another item I am considering adding back is a slightly larger knife than the leatherman style which is a little too small to handle comfortably. Same with the bic mini, a little awkward for larger fingers.

Anyone who is "adding back" items is probably discovering that the lighter versions are too small, too flimsy, too uncomfortable, or not as effective, not as warm, not as efficient, not as convenient, not as good at repelling water, etc. Most of us are probably not adding back 6+ lbs tents, 5+ lb packs, 4 lb sleeping bags for "3 season" use. We are fine tuning the excellent gear we already have.

Most of us probably have a lot of fun analyzing and experimenting with new gear and techniques especially if it makes wilderness travel more enjoyable. For me, nothing beats the feeling of flying along the trail unencumbered.


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[Miner]

For instance, IF you bring a spoon. And at first you got one of those spoons the size of your pinky and realized that you only eat Mountain House which rendered that little spoon practically useless and then you upgraded to a long handled spoon to eat your MH meals comfortable....This is the information I'm trying to gather here. First hand of experiences of gear you chose and the lighter option did not work out for you. The responses should be pretty specific.

Actually, when I went from a normal length titanium snowpeak spork to a long handled spoon, the weight dropped. It was one of those really thin titanium spoons I got off Backpackinglight back when they use to sell stuff rather then the heavier titanium ones REI sells; though the Sea2SUmmit alum. long handle spoon they sell is pretty light. As its held up well to scooping generous helpings of peanut butter out of a jar, I doubt I'll ever replace it until they start using lighttonium.

[Just Bill]

For me, nothing beats the feeling of flying along the trail unencumbered.

That pretty well sums it up...
While the scale is the first benchmark, once that goal is reached there are far more important considerations.
All considerations worthy of discussion and debate while in town or when the ginger gets bored

A spoon that don't reach yer food, a filter that takes too long or requires too much maintenance, or a sleeping pad that doesn't allow for good sleep.
Inconvenience, frustration, failures, or crap that plain don't work are all encumbrances like as not to ruin yer day.
Worry, concern, hardship or distrust related to a piece of gear weigh on your mind and feet far more than grams.

The best piece of gear is the one that don't weigh on yer shoulders or yer mind.
Going lighter ain't a label or a number any more'n speedhiking is about the clock.
Like any good truth it's simple enough to say, tricky to explain, means something a bit different to each of us and is quite difficult to do.


Kudos to all who pursue it.

[garlic08]

...For me, nothing beats the feeling of flying along the trail unencumbered.

Ditto again. What you carry doesn't matter if you can achieve this. When I reached that point, I stopped trying to get lighter. I was on the PNT in intermittent showers and I was packing and unpacking a rain jacket without breaking stride when that happened to me. Great feeling.

[Dogwood]

Anyone, ULer or not, can chase gear without considering it in a larger perspective. And YES, it can be problematic. Yes, with ULers, especially those not aware that UL is not just about gear in and of itself, can chase gear based on the wt aspect alone. AND, that leads to potential issues DESPITE it being said umpteen times that UL RIGHT is about integrating many things gear, skills, knowledge, techniques, tactics, ONESELF, etc. It is fraught with potential pitfalls when people assume they simply buy themselves into UL based solely on UL gear purchases. UL RIGHT is not just about UL gear. For that matter nor is backpacking just about gear. As simple as that may sound people sometimes ignore it assuming the fast track is always the best approach to growth and achievement.

A sign that this is happening is evidenced by so much itsy bitsy UL used gear for resale and the accompanying realization, OFTEN because the gear was viewed narrowly as UL popular or the latest fancy a wee bit lighter available, after the buying spree without considering more fully gear purchases in the larger scheme of things pre obtainment/purchase.

Personally, I evolved my backpacking, hiking philosophy, kits. etc mostly over many smaller incremental steps commensurate with growth in many other aspects ie; knowing thyself, skill set, logistics approaches, etc. Albeit I took some big steps in saving wt and volume in the very beginning with some core BIG 3 Big 4 piece switch outs but my wt/volume reduction never outpaced the rest of those integrated aspects, including my ever expanding skill sets. Instead of attempting to buy myself into lighter and lighter kits I saw kits were only a small part of the UL lifestyle. I added new gear only after much boots on the ground experiences, considerations, observations, considering personal applicability, and research. This approach has worked very well FOR ME.

I got on all this because even though I have Ti shepard stakes I NEVER saw them as the only stakes to employ. Sure minimal wt was a positive attribute when I was attracted to them but I never viewed them on that merit alone. I considered the potential negatives too. I considered many things outside of material concerns too. I don't see gear as existing and functioning by itself. I'M INVOLVED TOO! I wasn't blinded by the light....UL. I use them sometimes for some applications in some situations. At other times they aren't all that. It isn't always the gear's fault. IT IS US FAILING TO BE MORE AWARE! Simply put, prioritizing wt, OR ANY ATTRIBUTE over all other potential positives and negatives in a very unaware perspective, can easily become problematic. I have been able to avoid that virtually entirely.

[Bigfoot86]

Excellent topic btw.

Saywer mini to regular size sawyer - inferior flow rate
Tent and sleeping pad to a hammock and tarp - far more comfortable
sleeping bag to top quilt - actually lost weight there do to no bottom on bag
added small power bank - for phone charging, gps on phone.

[MuddyWaters]

I bought a new zpacks solo groundsheet to use under a tarp. It now weighs 3.9 oz vs the 3.1 the old one did. WTH? Seems bathtub walls are higher, maybe cuben is 1.1 vs 1.0 as well.

I am getting wt added back involuntarily.

I have been using a tarp/inner combo for flexibility lately instead of hexamid tent. It weighs 2-3 oz more or so. Does that count?

And im carrying a 5 oz smartphobe instesd of 3 oz dumb one. That doesnt count because its in my pocket,....right??

[FarmerChef]

Like others I am still going lighter as my kids get older and I carry less gear for them. That means I can afford to carry a lighter pack as I don't have to hump as much food. I've also swapped out to a Cuben tarp from my silnylon tarp that I love but sleeps 6 and I now sometimes only need to sleep 2. Except for the food, I was ultralight to begin with so still moving lower. Once I am down to just myself or my wife and I, I may reevaluate and add some items back in for comfort. For now, I'm still happy to cut weight wherever possible.

[v1k1ng1001]

Splurged on a Klymit Static V Luxe insulated. Totally worth it.

[Wolf - 23000]

fastfoxengineering,

To answer your question, the real determination on adding additional weight to my pack has been if I’m planning on hiking with someone or not. Most of my hiking has been done solely. The advantage is I’m able to pick and select places that make it easier to camp while traveling UL. I’m able to rely more on my wilderness skills if needed.

When hiking with others, you have to expect to be more flexible on campsites along with the time of day you stop. The number of miles per/day you hike also requires some flexibility. The more flexibility also adds up to more gear and additional weight.

Wolf

[JasonByers]

Interesting topic! I switched from an Arc Blast 52l to an Arc Haul, Western Mountaineering Alpinlite vs ZPacks 10 for winter, Minimo or 1l Reactor instead of cat can setup, big ole thermarest compressible pillow instead of exped UL and just this next trip I'm going back to my regular squeeze instead of the lo-flo mini. I've added pounds back to my pack but much happier.

[JasonByers]

I don't want to get off topic but... after posting above about my flow problem with the sawyer mini I searched these forums for a solution and found a few threads about soaking them in vinegar to disolve mineral deposits. Well I tried this and dang what a difference! It's still not quite the flow of the original squeeze but really close. I'm happy with it again and figured since so many folks said they switched back I figured it was worth mentioning.

[sliverstorm]

Rope. Nuts. Carabiners

I was really invested in the UL experience until I realized I was essentially denying myself training for my 40lb+ climbing packs. Lightweight packs feel like magic, but the more I carry heavy packs, slowly, the lighter they become.

(My climbing packs will never be light. A good climbing rope currently weights at least 8.5lbs)

[Brup Bup]

Harmonica!!!

[squeezebox]

I would call Sawyer to see if the acidity of the vinegar affects the membrane. Just in case. But they did say a very mild bleach solution is good to run through it for long storage.