GSMNP Loop hIke advise

[Hosh]

Well lots to choose from, I like the added utility of a shuttle. It opens up lots of other possibilities. After reviewing the NPS website, I didn't get the idea there's public shuttles, everything is private?

I've beginning to think we'll have fun wherever and likely will schedule another trip. Lord knows the park is huge and one could spend a lifetime exploring it.

I enjoy the planning piece of trips, but the main backpacking season is waning, maybe one more trip to Moab.

At any rate, great early season snow in Colorado, time to wax the boards.

Thanks for all your help and insights, I surely will have more questions after doing some more research.

[Dogwood]

No mercy. You have CO and take trips to Moab. UGHHH! I can use some Moab and CO right now.

[Hosh]

I suspected the usual GSMNP Nerd Groupies would chime in. Good luck with them. They will not stop until they give it all away and then offer to escort you on umm, "your" GSMNP hike. They could write a GSMNP hiking book.

I hoping someone will step up and offer to carry my pack. That way I can bring my dutch oven

[Dogwood]

Have dead presidents? Are your checks good? Let's go.

[Hosh]

Have dead presidents? Are your checks good? Let's go.

The oven is 14"

I'll need to ask my wife

[TNhiker]

I suspected the usual GSMNP Nerd Groupies would chime in. Good luck with them. They will not stop until they give it all away and then offer to escort you on umm, "your" GSMNP hike. They could write a GSMNP hiking book.

GSMNP nerd groupies?

i thought this was a discussion board where members shared their knowledge and expertise...

but, i guess i could quit doing that................



and yeah, some people want me to write a book..........so maybe one day.............

[HooKooDooKu]

I suspected the usual GSMNP Nerd Groupies would chime in. Good luck with them. They will not stop until they give it all away and then offer to escort you on umm, "your" GSMNP hike. They could write a GSMNP hiking book.

Guilty as charged...

Just don't expect me to carry any packs for you. Even my own kids have had to carry their own packs (ok, I carried the 'shared' gear, but they had to carry their own sleeping bag, sleeping pad, and cloths).

No point in writing a book, the little brown book has already been written (and I own about 3 copies of it).
But actually, my biggest resource for planning hikes in GSMNP has been Google Earth combined, GPS data available at tnlandforms.us, and additions to the GPS data I've made over the years (such as the data to include distances to camp sites).

Well lots to choose from, I like the added utility of a shuttle. It opens up lots of other possibilities. After reviewing the NPS website, I didn't get the idea there's public shuttles, everything is private?

Yes. With the exception of a few particular events, shuttles within the park are private.

Two shuttle services I've used in GSMNP include:
A Walk In The Woods While mainly a guide service, shuttles are one of their many services.
AAA Hiker Service Smaller outfit with a driver that always has interesting stories to tell during the drive.



BTW, now that I've gotten a chance to look at my Google Earth data, I can see a #35, #37, #39, #38 is doable. The hike over to #35 isn't as bad as I thought it would be, but I don't see nubies doing the 7+ miles from BGC to #35 AND a side trip to Mtn Cammerer (the 2.3 miles on the AT from Lower Mt Cammerer to the side trail is quite a climb... with or without packs). However, I still think the hike from #39 to #38 via Long Bunk to be too much of a distance that late in the hike for the nubies. I would backtrack up Pretty Hollow Gap instead. What is great about the back track idea is that the water source for #38 is about 1/3 of a mile BEYOND the campsite DOWN HILL. To avoid the extra mileage and hill climbing, you can make note of the 1st watering spot heading down Pretty Hollow Gap and use that as your water source to haul water to #38 rather than getting the water at #38 after you get there.

[Hosh]

Guilty as charged...

BTW, now that I've gotten a chance to look at my Google Earth data, I can see a #35, #37, #39, #38 is doable. The hike over to #35 isn't as bad as I thought it would be, but I don't see nubies doing the 7+ miles from BGC to #35 AND a side trip to Mtn Cammerer (the 2.3 miles on the AT from Lower Mt Cammerer to the side trail is quite a climb... with or without packs). However, I still think the hike from #39 to #38 via Long Bunk to be too much of a distance that late in the hike for the nubies. I would backtrack up Pretty Hollow Gap instead. What is great about the back track idea is that the water source for #38 is about 1/3 of a mile BEYOND the campsite DOWN HILL. To avoid the extra mileage and hill climbing, you can make note of the 1st watering spot heading down Pretty Hollow Gap and use that as your water source to haul water to #38 rather than getting the water at #38 after you get there.

Yeah, I looked at the elevation profile of going up the AT to Mt Cammerer and down to 37 and thought it was too steep, especially with first day food loads.

I did the Little Cataloochee/Long Bunk trails based on the presence of historical structure etc. I like the idea of hitting one of the fire towers, Mt Sterling looks to fit the bill. Depending on fatigue levels, we would have the option of backtracking or doing a new loop.

I will further investigate the shuttle services, opens up some new areas.

[HooKooDooKu]

Yeah, I looked at the elevation profile of going up the AT to Mt Cammerer and down to 37 and thought it was too steep, especially with first day food loads.

I did the Little Cataloochee/Long Bunk trails based on the presence of historical structure etc. I like the idea of hitting one of the fire towers, Mt Sterling looks to fit the bill. Depending on fatigue levels, we would have the option of backtracking or doing a new loop.

I will further investigate the shuttle services, opens up some new areas.

If you want to include Cataloochee/Long Bunk because of the historical structures, you could start at the Little Cataloochee trail head along Mt Sterling Rd.
Day 1: Little Cataloochee Tr to #39 (6.2 Miles)
Day 2: Pretty Hollow Gap Tr to Laural Gap Shelter (7.8 Miles)
Day 3: Gunter Fork Tr to #37 (6.3 Miles)
Day 4: Swallow Fork Tr to #38 (6.0 Miles)
Day 5: Long Bunk Tr to Trail Head (6.8 Miles)
If you need to make the loop a little easier, cut out down/up trip to #37, go from Laural Gap Shelter strait to #38 (5.9 Miles)


The two shuttle companies I referenced are located along 321 between Cosby and Gatlinburg. The usually operate between Cosby, Gatlinburg, Cades Cove, and New Found Gap/Clingman's Dome. So using their services for anything around Cataloochee, Cherokee, Bryson City, or Fontana might be cost prohibitive. (However, others can tell you about other shuttle companies that might be more appropriate for those areas.)

[Hosh]

Guilty as charged...

BTW, now that I've gotten a chance to look at my Google Earth data, I can see a #35, #37, #39, #38 is doable. The hike over to #35 isn't as bad as I thought it would be, but I don't see nubies doing the 7+ miles from BGC to #35 AND a side trip to Mtn Cammerer (the 2.3 miles on the AT from Lower Mt Cammerer to the side trail is quite a climb... with or without packs). However, I still think the hike from #39 to #38 via Long Bunk to be too much of a distance that late in the hike for the nubies. I would backtrack up Pretty Hollow Gap instead. What is great about the back track idea is that the water source for #38 is about 1/3 of a mile BEYOND the campsite DOWN HILL. To avoid the extra mileage and hill climbing, you can make note of the 1st watering spot heading down Pretty Hollow Gap and use that as your water source to haul water to #38 rather than getting the water at #38 after you get there.

Yeah, I looked at the elevation profile of going up the AT to Mt Cammerer and down to 37 and thought it was too steep, especially with first day food loads.

I did the Little Cataloochee/Long Bunk trails based on the presence of historical structure etc. I like the idea of hitting one of the fire towers, Mt Sterling looks to fit the bill. Depending on fatigue levels, we would have the option of backtracking or doing a new loop.

I will further investigate the shuttle services, opens up some new areas.

[Hosh]

Thanks HooKooDooKu, that looks very doable. I also like the Abrams Falls loop.

I tried to do a shuttle hike from Newfound Gap to Crosby CG, but I think the distances are too long.

[HooKooDooKu]

I tried to do a shuttle hike from Newfound Gap to Crosby CG, but I think the distances are too long.

While I've got no idea about cost, what about a shuttle between Big Creek and New Found Gap?
That can be done with only one killer day if you can swing 7 days.

Day 1: New Found Gap to Kephart Shelter - 5.4 miles
Day 2: #49 - 6.0 miles (about 10 to include a side trip to Charlies Bunion)
Day 3: #48 - 6.0 miles
Day 4: #47 - 4.6 miles
Day 5: Laural Gap Shelter - 8.6 miles (big climbs) (via walk along Strait Fork Rd to avoid climb towards #44)
Day 6: #38 - 5.9 miles
Day 7: Big Creek CG 6.2 miles

[Hosh]

Got my little brown book, wow it's a great resource. Starting to digest our previous routes, it's a thick little sucker

[HooKooDooKu]

While the little brown book is full of information; when I plan GSMNP trips, I use Google Earth.

You get to not only see all the trails like you can on a map, but you can tilt the angle and quickly see what you're planning in 3-D.
I've found setting 'Tools/Options.../Terrain:Elevation Exaggeration = 2' to be a value that really helps show the hills without being too exaggerated.

While Google has a built-in layer that shows the trails (Layers:Primary Database/More/Parks/Recreation Areas/Parks), the data is old and in many cases, inaccurate.

I instead use the attached Google Earth data. It started with some data I originally found stored on servers at UTK (now found at TNLandForms.us).
I've since reorganized that data, added some off-map trails, marked all the roads (because sometimes a short road walk is all it takes to make a loop), and created a whole set of Distance markers showing the distances not only between trail intersections but also the distances to campsites as well.
(All the icons point to icons I've created and stored on Google)
GSMNP.kmz

My copy uses color codes to show what trails I've hiked and campsites I've stayed at as I track my progress toward the 900 Miler Club.

[Hosh]

Thank you, Thank you, must have take hundreds of hours to lay this all out. Sure beats the heck out of Nat Geo's map

[HooKooDooKu]

Thank you, Thank you, must have take hundreds of hours to lay this all out. Sure beats the heck out of Nat Geo's map

I'm not sure what was the source of the original UTK data. Hundreds of GPS track logs? Digital TOPO map data? No idea what went into getting that put together.

I myself have spend many many hours adding the tracks for roads, the mileage markers, creating icons, separating the 'Nature Trails' from the trails listed on the back country trail map, and adding details and side trails that are not in the UTK data or shown on the trail map.

Anyone utilizing this data, I ask that you please-please-please let me know of any errors you find (I've found several myself using this data over just the last year).
Also, if you have any track logs for other side trails that you know of, I'd love to add those to my data.

(Hey TNHiker... I'm talking to you... I'd love to include things like a track log of how to reach the boiler off of Forney Creek Trail)

A couple of notes about the mileage markers.
First it should be obvious that you can turn them all off/on using the check box for the 'Distance' folder.
But they are also loaded with information.
Click on a mileage marker and the 1st line tells you the trail name, the 2nd confirms the distance that should match the icon, and what are the two things at each end of the trail segment.

BTW: I would say that the difference between the 'Off Map' and 'Nature Trails' folders is that 'Nature Trails' are front country trails (i.e. relatively independent trails accessible from the road), while 'Off Map' is back country trails not seen on the official trail map (such as the JumpOff located near the intersection of AT/Boulevard).

[TNhiker]

(Hey TNHiker... I'm talking to you... I'd love to include things like a track log of how to reach the boiler off of Forney Creek Trail)

ha.....i was just reading the post, and thought id like to check out the track and all it's data...

then i remember, its data and tracks.............something im not sure i can directly handle..........as in, opening files and crap like that..

but, i'll give it a shot..........


as for the boiler on forney? that's easy..............ill send ya a PM on that one...

and fwiw----at this just came up on another forum----there's a bunch of artifacts, homesites, and cemeteries that are only accessible by boat ( i know, i know---this is a hiker forum, but thought maybe some people paddle as well)................


and for the data----guessing "off map" trails are different than manway type trails..............

[TNhiker]

whoa.............that map is intense.....

that is going to suck me in and consume all kinds of time......

i will look at it more when over the next week or so, when im up visiting my folks.....

[HooKooDooKu]

...and for the data----guessing "off map" trails are different than manway type trails..............

I don't really have enough off map trails yet to differentiate between well known paths like the Jumpoff and man ways like the path to Forney Creek Boiler. Actually, before today, I only had 'UTK Trails' and 'My Trails' (where I had already segregated UTK trails to seperate out the quiet walk way and nature trails). But as I was making a set of data to 'publish', I realized I needed descriptions that would make sense to the general public. Come to think about it, I didn't do anything yet to better merge UTK features (like the locations of water falls) and features I've added like the location of Moore Spring. I likely did think much about the features because I always leave them turned off. The mile markers alone make the map too busy until you are ready to check distances.

[greentick]

I think this is the most comprehensive "Smokies Loop Hikes" thread yet. Thanks yall.