GSMNP Loop hIke advise

[Hosh]

Hello,
New to this forum and looking for insight on backpacking in GSMNP. I am an experienced backpacker in the Central Rockies and SE Utah. I am planning a trip with my brother and his 2 sons. They are inexperienced, so thinking to keep the mileage down to 5 to 10 miles per day. We are looking at mid to late April 2016, for about 5 or 6 days.

My plan to date:

Start at Big Creek CG and hike up Big Creek trail to BC site 37 and overnight

Hike from BC 37 to Laurel Gap Shelter via either Swallow Fork or Gunter Fork trails over night at LGS

Hike from LGS to TriCorner shelter overnight

Hike from TCS to Crosby Knob overnight

Hike CKS to Big Creek CG

Originally I laid out a trans AT through the park hike and thought it would be a little much for mileage and pack weights

Some open questions:

Chances of snow? I looked at the historical web cams and saw nothing
15 deg quilts, pads and bags enough in the shelters
Do the shelters have fireplaces (can't tell from pictures I've found)
Tips for getting reservations needed
Water sources between shelters, I am now planning on carrying a single liter of H20
General idea on how busy, crowded route/shelters will be
Any other pearls of wisdom

Thanks, appreciate the opportunity to learn more.

[Slo-go'en]

Mid to late April is really busy along the AT section as there will be many thru hikers passing through. The AT shelters will be full to overflowing. As a section hiker, you will be required to squeeze in one way or another. If it is overflowing, thru hikers have the option of tenting next to the shelter, but if it's raining, they will be reluctant to do so. The shelters south of New Found gap have fireplaces built into the shelter wall. But I'm pretty sure Tricorner and Crosby Knob don't.

Sign up for reservations the day they open up, which is 30 days in advance.
Water shouldn't be an issue, but a lot of your route is along ridges where there isn't any. But it's cool enough in April you won't need to drink gallons.

Keep in mind that the Smoky Mountains are one of the wettest places on the east coast. They get a lot of rain and April is one of the wettest months. It will be cold and wet. If it's not actually raining, your often still in a cloud. In these conditions everything gets either wet or very damp. The trails will be significantly more difficult then your used to, although being a National Park, there a bit better then average.

I can't comment on your exact route as I've only been on the AT through the park. I would guess the Big Creek trail will have a number of fords which might be challenging if the water is high, and it often is in the spring.

[gollwoods]

that route is a very nice hike. the dates are a problem for the A T crowds. those two shelters dont have great space to tent any way. your reservation is supposed to reserve you a spot in theory. 6 spots are set aside for section hikers like yourself so if you go online and get a reservation technically your spot is reserved. but if you show up and it is really full I do not know what you could really do. it may be a ok but it may be a problem. if you do your route to 37 then laurel gap you may be able to go to site 29 on maddron bald trail. then down to the gabes mountain trail site 34 thenon east to lower cammerer trail and thae site there 35. then to the car at at big creek

[Hosh]

Thanks,
We should be in camp by mid afternoon. Will the shelters be full that early? The throng of humanity is an issue, not sure how that would work out.

I will start looking for another loop or lollipop route.

Not sure what the "trails will be significantly more difficult than you're used to" is based on. I have hiked in and out of the Grand Canyon 3 times and done 5 Colorado fourteeners. I know this will be a cool hike, but have to smile when I read about being at elevation, ie 6000' The wet environment will be a big difference. When it rains in the Rockies, it usually violent and short lived. There is always an ample opportunity to dry things out. I plan to bring a Zpacks tarp so we can have a dry community area.

[Dogwood]

"Chances of snow? I looked at the historical web cams and saw nothing"

The NP websites have weather info so you could learn to research that for yourself without having to inquire getting into a multitude of sometimes conflicting answers you'll likely have to sort through. http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/weather.htm

With your trip work off the higher elev temp and precipitation avgs keeping in mind these are avgs. YES, snow does fall in April in GSMNP YES, drifts can occur.

[PackHorse]

I might consider hiking this backwards. The boys might find it interesting all the thru hikers you meet between the two shelters and you'll be in the shelters with two different groups this way. Downside is.... first day is going to be longer.

[Slo-go'en]

Thanks,
Not sure what the "trails will be significantly more difficult than you're used to" is based on.

It's based on having done a lot of hiking on the AT and a modest amount in the Rockies.

The last time I hiked through the GSMNP it rained 5 days out 5. The all day, cold drizzle kind of rain which cuts to the bone. Didn't see the sun once the entire time. Hope you don't have to go through that. Slushy snow is possible in early April, but the likelihood is pretty small.

[Hosh]

Ok got that, grew up in Indiana so understand that dreary, cold rain.

I think about "trail difficulty" as elevation changes, altitude, switchbacks and exposure to risk of falling. Originally I was thinking about Baxter Creek to BC site 38 but figured the elevation gain was potentially a problem, especially with full fuel and food loads

Now I am wondering if we should avoid the AT altogether and a counter clockwise hike like Gollwoods laid out. It looks like Big Creek trail would be pretty interesting with various water features. Is Baxter Creek mostly a tree covered ridge or are there scenic vistas?

[Slo-go'en]

Don't know if there are any vistas along your proposed route, but in April the trees haven't leafed out yet so you get to see through the trees. One thing I did notice is the Baxter Creek and Sterling Ridge trails are horse trails. I dislike being on horse trails a lot.

The really good views are along the AT (but I don't think there is anything to write home about between Tricorner and Crosby Knob) They had to build a 70 foot concrete tower on top of Clingmans Dome to get a view there for the tourists.

[Hosh]

+1 on the horse trails, both Bright Angel and South Kaibab trails in the Grand Canyon NP are used for the mule trains to Phantom Ranch. My quads still hurt thinking about the ruts on the switchbacks.

[TNhiker]

one thing to keep in mind----cs 37 is one of the most popular campsites in the park....

you could have it to yourself----or you could have 30 people in there (and yes, i know thats over the number it holds but people show up anyways).......

One thing I did notice is the Baxter Creek and Sterling Ridge trails are horse trails. I dislike being on horse trails a lot.

baxter is hiker only.........

i really enjoy mount sterling ridge trail....

a very high up trail, that is, except coming from the gap---is almost fairly level............some views from this trail but not much............but it was a breeze to hike......

. I would guess the Big Creek trail will have a number of fords which might be challenging if the water is high, and it often is in the spring.

only ford on big creek would be up at the intersection of gunter fork....

the rest of big creek is bridged........

lower part of big creek (basically, most of the trail)----is an old roadbed thats wide and has bridges wide enough for a vehicle......

Is Baxter Creek mostly a tree covered ridge or are there scenic vistas?

its not a ridge hike............basically going up the middle of the mountain to get to the top.................where there are views via the mount sterling fire tower...........

Do the shelters have fireplaces (can't tell from pictures I've found)

yes..........only shelter in park that doesnt have a fireplace is leconte......

since its a shelter and more than likely wont have it to yourself----some people will want a fire...............others not...

and theres also a fire pit outside the shelter.............

Water sources between shelters, I am now planning on carrying a single liter of H20

you shouldnt have any problems with water during april........

theres plenty of little seepages along the way.................

[Dogwood]

"Ok got that, grew up in Indiana so understand that dreary, cold rain.

I think about "trail difficulty" as elevation changes, altitude, switchbacks and exposure to risk of falling. Originally I was thinking about Baxter Creek to BC site 38 but figured the elevation gain was potentially a problem, especially with full fuel and food loads

Now I am wondering if we should avoid the AT altogether and a counter clockwise hike like Gollwoods laid out. It looks like Big Creek trail would be pretty interesting with various water features. Is Baxter Creek mostly a tree covered ridge or are there scenic vistas?"

If you can do GCNP descending/ascending the BA Tr and S Kaibab Tr YOU can hike GSMNP. GSMNP is less sustained distance of elev change than your experiences at GCNP and probably the CO 14ers. With others in your party I can't tell. Altitude? Serious? You're party is from the Mile High City. Less elev gain/loss and exposure too. Risks of falling are almost nil compared to what you are familiar in the west/mid west. Only in a few places in GSMNP is exposure from falling a risk. You'll be below treeline almost exclusively in heavy mixed evergreen/deciduous forests. Views of rolling forested smokey ridges extending out less than you're used to in GCNP and CO. Extended views will mostly be at limited small overlooks, at Newfound Gap and high pts like fire towers and viewing platforms like Clingmans Dome.

"Tips for getting reservations needed?"

Look at a GSMNP trail map. One thing different about the GCNP corridor trails and 14ers of CO you are familiar are more trails/route options in GSMNP. There are almost 900 miles of maintained trails in GSMNP. These endless loop possibilities should be considered as alternates and alternate itineraries for the procurement of permits considered BEFORE applying. NP Rangers are more apt to give info IMO to those who demonstrate some research of alternates, trail characteristics, and logistics. You, being an experienced hiker, are already considering these things.

Consider some trails in GSMNP are maintained to different standards. Some trails or segments of trails are maintained for limited horse travel as well by emergency S&R teams, Rangers, etc. When these trails have recently been maintained they usually are more gradual overall, are more open, wider, higher, etc. This could factor into your choice of trails.

[Dogwood]

IMO, being used to the west/mid west's views definitely include in your loop known overlooks or high pts. You don't want your party to come away from a feeling of all that you experienced is a green tunnel and crowds unless that's what your want! Remember you can get views but also appreciate the differences compared to what you are accustomed. Soak in the great bio diversity of GSMNP, history(lots of cabins, cemetries, even towns absorbed into GSMNP, tumbling waters through boulder strewn streams, waterfalls, pedestrian bridges, etc. IMO, don't just be absorbed with the AT through GSMNP either. MIX IT UP!

[MockingJay]

[QUOTE=Slo-go'en;2019162] The shelters south of New Found gap have fireplaces built into the shelter wall. But I'm pretty sure Tricorner and Crosby Knob don't. QUOTE]

Both Tricorner and Cosby Knob have fire places built into the shelter wall.

[illabelle]

In my opinion, the best views on the AT inside the Park are on the narrow ridges of the trail in the northern half, like between Tricorner Knob and Charlie's Bunion. But, as others have pointed out, AT shelters and nearby tenting areas will be overflowing, and furthermore, Cosby Knob Shelter is frequently closed due to bear activity. I'd suggest a route that includes time on the AT (hopefully on a clear day), but plan to camp elsewhere.

We've planned a two-day trip in that area next summer. Looking forward to it!

[Hosh]

I like Dogwood's idea of visiting some of the natural features and historical sites. I have the National Geo map, not sure how detailed it is in terms of historical sites. I am considering purchasing the Appalachian Trail Guide to Tennessee/North Carolina guide. Is it any good and/or what's a better trail guide resource?

After reading the experienced hiker's post, I am getting gun shy of the AT Shelters. I like the idea of hiking the AT for a day or so and getting off trail for an overnight site.

Is Laurel Gap shelter comparable in terms of usage?

[Farr Away]

This is the Smokies reference I like the most:
http://www.amazon.com/Hiking-Trails-...of+the+smokies

It's also known as the Little Brown Book.

-FA

[Hosh]

Sweet, very nice, on order!

[Dogwood]

Hosh, you are hitting up GSMNP for the first time and have an inexperienced crew in tow. Make the trip exciting, fun, and dynamic. Mixing it up helps keep all interested and have a memorable experience. As the trip planner you are already taking considerations into account that demonstrate your awareness for the different abilities in your group. Remember, we all can sometimes forget this, hiking is NOT just about hiking. As you know, you are significantly integral to the quality of your trip as the planner.

Although many get so narrowly focused on the AT in GSMNP through association of notoriety that is only a small amount of what GSMNP has to offer. As has been alluded to, and as you already have been planning, use some of the AT, perhaps taking in some highlights like great view pts ie;Shuckstack Mt(small at top but pretty cool on a clear day with it slightly swaying)/Mt Cammerer(***, large stone historical fire tower)/Mt Sterling(not on the AT)/ etc fire towers, Clingmans Dome(on AT, modernistic spiraling concrete viewing platform ), Mt LeConte(nice views, Lodge, history, nearby lean/to, not that far from the AT and Newfound Gap and lean-tos), Charlies Bunion(*** short narrow catwalk AT alternate, maybe more like you're used to out west), the Jumpoff(near the AT), night or two(or maybe not) at one of the AT lean-tos, Newfound Gap(touristy but with an outstanding view and history, on AT), abandoned tunnels that you can now hike through(not on AT), mines, bodies of water, etc. Those scenic rock strewn streams resembling a Thomas Kinkade painting and waterfalls should be at the height of their volume so good viewing time in April. I'd definitely include them in your trip planning. April is excellent wildflower and other plant of blooming times. Take that in! Might see some elk(in limited areas), black bears, owls, lots of other birds, fox, racoons, amphibians, reptiles(although still mostly too cold), see and hear some coyotes, etc

Depending on your nephews ages pick their interests( and your own and bros') by expanding your hike to appreciate a greater environmental awareness, history, and greater experiences than just hike, hike, hike. Use the interpretive GSMNP Visitors Center to your advantage in doing that! Go roast some wieners and marshmallows responsibly. And, PLEASE, if you go into the towns of Cherokee NC and Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge TN, realize that's not just what the Appalachian Mts or eastcoasters are about!


Oh, FWIW, in your planning, although you likely already know, the AT is on the highest ridge in the NP following the NC/TN state line. Unless you want lots of huffing and puffing don't design your loop bisecting the AT over and over as it will be up down up down up down with the most significant elev gain loss gain lose...

[Hosh]

Dogwood thanks, great advice. I sent my brother an email seeing if we can expand beyond the AT, it was his idea in the first place. Originally we were going to transverse the park SW to NE. No reason to make it into a death march and criss crossing the AT does seem to bring more elevation changes into play. My brother and nephews actually live in SW Ohio, so 6000' is a big change for them.

Every national park is a national park for good reason and exploring the park is a great idea. I know visitation at GSMNP is among the largest in the US, but I am hoping early spring weather will dampen the crowds.

Based on Farr Away's input I've ordered the little brown book. Is there any quadrant of the park that might be better suited?